[CallMeDan_Thanks]

Hey everyone!

Most of the forums posts I've seen are kind of dated, so I wanted to make a new one for new opinions or experience with plug n' play tunes.

I'm currently juggling between the Dinan and the different JB tunes. I'm not looking for anything more aggressive or involved right now so these are the ones I'm considering. The only other mod I currently have on the care is the Injen CAI.

Looking for any opinions or advise! Thanks guys!
(2016 BMW F22 w/ N26)

[AleksanderSuave]

dinan sport is not worth your money.

If you’re dead set on piggybacks go jb4

[CallMeDan_Thanks]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

dinan sport is not worth your money.

If you’re dead set on piggybacks go jb4

Is the extra money really worth it compared to the others? Also, is it a friendly system for someone who is just starting to dip their toes into using a piggyback?

I'm not opposed to learning, and if it's really worth the extra money and it's that much better of a system I imagine it's the one to go with.

Sorry for so many questions...

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by CallMeDan_Thanks

Is the extra money really worth it compared to the others? Also, is it a friendly system for someone who is just starting to dip their toes into using a piggyback?

I'm not opposed to learning, and if it's really worth the extra money and it's that much better of a system I imagine it's the one to go with.

Sorry for so many questions...

Okay I will call you Dan, alright? Dan The Man!

So, Dan, first of all, Aleksander is right. Dinan is shit.

Secondly, and I know every BMW philosopher will jump on my ass over this but: FUCK PIGGYBACKS. In fact, fuck Biggie, fuck Bad Boy Records. Wesssiiiide!!! And again, fuck piggyback tunes.

Before any of you all say "well ackshually, piggybacks are alright", I don't care.

Here is what you should do: get BM3 or MHD (preferably MHD), get xHP, and sit with a custom tuner to have them custom tune your car. I just hate people cheapening out on their Bimmers to "save a few bucks". Come the fuck on. It is not that much to spend a few hundred extra and get a custom tune done.

Leave everyone in the dust.

[Throttlesteer14]

I apologize for BimBim. He may have missed his meds tonight. But he's a good dude. Piggyback are just fine. There are pros and cons to both flash tunes and piggybacks. Dinan is $$ and they're dealing with some service challenges since they got absorbed by a bigger outfit. They still make a quality product. JB+ will deliver a bit more power and has some different features. People are quite happy with their solution too. Flash tunes definitely have more upside from a power perspective. Its all about what you want. Just don't go racing BimBim.

[XutvJet]

I ran the Dinan Sport on my M235 for a bit over a year. I'm currently running the Dinantronics Stage 2 piggyback. Here is my experience with both.

Dinan Sport
The unit is very simple to install. It takes a couple of minutes to install. You can change the power settings between stock, Sport, Sport+, and Race. The power is most noticeable in Sport+ and Race. Sport and Sport+ gave the best driveability. Since this is a one sensor tuning device, it tends to make the additional power delivery a bit more abrupt than stock in the lower rpms. As you increase the settings, the delivery gets more abrupt. In a 6MT car, I felt that Sport+ and Race made it harder to drive the car smoothly off the line and on the 1-2 shift. In an automatic, I doubt it would cause any issues. The throttle would just feel a little more sensitive. In really hot weather (85+) and the motor being heat soaked, power deliver could sometimes be inconsistent, meaning not all the additional power felt like it was there. Again, this is just a factor of a one sensor tuner and the DME being overly protective. Most of the time, the car just felt more powerful especially from 2000rpms to 5000rpms.

Dinantronics Stage 2
The unit is a bit more difficult to install as it piggybacks between two of the DME harness connectors. It reads and manipulates data from a number of sensors. I can change it from stock to Stage 1 to Stage 2. The unit makes quite a bit more power than the Dinan Sport, especially above 5000rpms, and power is a VERY smooth power delivery. It drives like stock and there are no hiccups in power delivery. I can nail a shift and the power on the shift is seamless. The Dinantronics Stage 2 makes less power than a typical flash tune, but it's not a whole lot less. It's like riding a big wave of power.

One note about these two devices though, you can't run the newer Android OS 8.0 (Oreo) as the Dinan app doesn't support it. That means you can't change the tuner settings which is a huge deal. You need to use an older Android device or iOS.

With any tuning device, piggyback or flash, I strongly suggest running the highest octane possible.

If you want the Dinan Sport, I have one in great condition and in the original package that I'd sell. It works on the N26 and N55. PM me if you're interested.

[CallMeDan_Thanks]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

Okay I will call you Dan, alright? Dan The Man!

So, Dan, first of all, Aleksander is right. Dinan is shit.

Secondly, and I know every BMW philosopher will jump on my ass over this but: FUCK PIGGYBACKS. In fact, fuck Biggie, fuck Bad Boy Records. Wesssiiiide!!! And again, fuck piggyback tunes.

Before any of you all say "well ackshually, piggybacks are alright", I don't care.

Here is what you should do: get BM3 or MHD (preferably MHD), get xHP, and sit with a custom tuner to have them custom tune your car. I just hate people cheapening out on their Bimmers to "save a few bucks". Come the fuck on. It is not that much to spend a few hundred extra and get a custom tune done.

Leave everyone in the dust.

Haha! I appreciate the high energy. Realistically when it's not my daily and when I come across more money I would love to experience that, and I'm aware it's the BEST way to tune your car to get every last bit out of it. For the time being it's not an option. I'll remember BM3 though and will reference back to this post when the time comes.

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer14

I apologize for BimBim. He may have missed his meds tonight. But he's a good dude. Piggyback are just fine. There are pros and cons to both flash tunes and piggybacks. Dinan is $$ and they're dealing with some service challenges since they got absorbed by a bigger outfit. They still make a quality product. JB+ will deliver a bit more power and has some different features. People are quite happy with their solution too. Flash tunes definitely have more upside from a power perspective. Its all about what you want. Just don't go racing BimBim.

It's all good! I appreciate his energy haha. Wasn't offended at all. I'm just looking for simplicity and something to START with. From what I saw it's "you'll be looking for more in no time" but since it's a daily... probably not at the moment. I'm guessing the JB+ and BMW Stage 1 will offer similar performance in the end since you didn't mention the BMS? Thanks for the reply! I'll make sure to steer clear of BimBim at a red light...

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I ran the Dinan Sport on my M235 for a bit over a year. I'm currently running the Dinantronics Stage 2 piggyback. Here is my experience with both.

Dinan Sport
The unit is very simple to install. It takes a couple of minutes to install. You can change the power settings between stock, Sport, Sport+, and Race. The power is most noticeable in Sport+ and Race. Sport and Sport+ gave the best driveability. Since this is a one sensor tuning device, it tends to make the additional power delivery a bit more abrupt than stock in the lower rpms. As you increase the settings, the delivery gets more abrupt. In a 6MT car, I felt that Sport+ and Race made it harder to drive the car smoothly off the line and on the 1-2 shift. In an automatic, I doubt it would cause any issues. The throttle would just feel a little more sensitive. In really hot weather (85+) and the motor being heat soaked, power deliver could sometimes be inconsistent, meaning not all the additional power felt like it was there. Again, this is just a factor of a one sensor tuner and the DME being overly protective. Most of the time, the car just felt more powerful especially from 2000rpms to 5000rpms.

Dinantronics Stage 2
The unit is a bit more difficult to install as it piggybacks between two of the DME harness connectors. It reads and manipulates data from a number of sensors. I can change it from stock to Stage 1 to Stage 2. The unit makes quite a bit more power than the Dinan Sport, especially above 5000rpms, and power is a VERY smooth power delivery. It drives like stock and there are no hiccups in power delivery. I can nail a shift and the power on the shift is seamless. The Dinantronics Stage 2 makes less power than a typical flash tune, but it's not a whole lot less. It's like riding a big wave of power.

One note about these two devices though, you can't run the newer Android OS 8.0 (Oreo) as the Dinan app doesn't support it. That means you can't change the tuner settings which is a huge deal. You need to use an older Android device or iOS.

With any tuning device, piggyback or flash, I strongly suggest running the highest octane possible.

If you want the Dinan Sport, I have one in great condition and in the original package that I'd sell. It works on the N26 and N55. PM me if you're interested.

Awesome info! Thanks so much. I generally drive the car fairly reserved unless the group goes out on a backroad cruise of some sort, but here in MD the weather is generally acceptable most of the year. Great things to keep in mind. Thanks again!

[Murf]

One of the reasons people like piggybacks is easy to remove and less chance of warranty issues. I have 14 mos left on CPO so I went BMS Stage 1 - was able to pick up a used one for $200 and it adds ~30hp and 35-40 lb/ft of torque which brings you to B58 levels.

JB4 is a great piece but to really get everything out of it to run the OBD cord and I didn't feel like going that route for a few extra HP.

On my prior E90 and Mk7 GTI I had great results with the JB4 + E30 and endless custom map twiddling.

All this being said I'll prolly go MHD flash when I am out of warranty

[AleksanderSuave]

I disabled my dinan piggyback (in bypass mode) after they upgraded my $1500 one to a "new and improved" $1200 model, with less features, and a worse tune.

MHD is $80 for the wireless adapter, and $500 for the gauges, the tuning software, and a super license (all off the shelf stages/tunes) so you can upgrade incrementally as you see fit (or dont, if you dont want to).

BMW will still find reasons to deny your warranty if the tune causes it, and then you're stick waiting on Dinan to resolve the issue. I wouldnt hold my breath. They nickel and dimed me on taxes on a repair for their "warranty" product defect, and the dealership and service advisor both told me they no longer sell dinan to ANY customers.

The minimal performance improvement is not worth the cost with Dinan..and the product isnt "reliable" as it once was. Mine resulted in having my car towed to the dealership twice in 6 months.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

I disabled my dinan piggyback (in bypass mode) after they upgraded my $1500 one to a "new and improved" $1200 model, with less features, and a worse tune.

MHD is $80 for the wireless adapter, and $500 for the gauges, the tuning software, and a super license (all off the shelf stages/tunes) so you can upgrade incrementally as you see fit (or dont, if you dont want to).

BMW will still find reasons to deny your warranty if the tune causes it, and then you're stick waiting on Dinan to resolve the issue. I wouldnt hold my breath. They nickel and dimed me on taxes on a repair for their "warranty" product defect, and the dealership and service advisor both told me they no longer sell dinan to ANY customers.

The minimal performance improvement is not worth the cost with Dinan..and the product isnt "reliable" as it once was. Mine resulted in having my car towed to the dealership twice in 6 months.

This is the right path!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

I disabled my dinan piggyback (in bypass mode) after they upgraded my $1500 one to a "new and improved" $1200 model, with less features, and a worse tune.

You have a B58 though. There aren't any issues with Dinantronics piggybacks for the N55. It is far superior piggyback compared to the JB4 in terms of driveability. A Dinantronics Stage 2 with a downpipe and intake mods is good for around 380whp/400twq. That's comparable to a Stage 2 MHD.

With that said, I wouldn't pay full price for the Dinantronics Stage 2. I got mine for $400 1year used.

If the OP is just looking for a little more with a single sensor piggyback, so any of the models will work and deliver similar power. The Dinan is nice because you can adjust it on the fly. A catted downpipe with a simple piggyback will deliver a nice bump in power.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

A Dinantronics Stage 2 with a downpipe and intake mods is good for around 380whp/400twq. That's comparable to a Stage 2 MHD.

Always great insight XutvJet, I look forward to reading any of your post because I know I might learn something

And as someone who been through two separate vehicles, with a Dinantronics piggyback installed, I guarantee it works just as well as any flash tune, without the side effects of flash tuning the ECU.

You can toggle the Dinantronics bypass on/off to decipher the power difference, for yourself. There is a pretty obvious difference and unlike flash tuning, you're not permanently triggering the flash counter and re-writing the stock mapping; as everything is reversible.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=22603477

No matter whatever some members or vendor tells you, flashing tuning alter the original data, from the factory, even when flash back to their version of "stock." There is basically no such thing as flashing back to stock, with an aftermarket ECU tune.

With a piggyback, you disconnect it and it disappear, without a trace.

Anyone that have their doubts about the Dinantronics piggyback, please don't knock it until you try it. Used units go for like $500 on eBay or Dinan sell then new, without warrant for $1,000 directly. So the price is comparable to an aftermarket flash tune and you can sell back the unit, whenever you choose.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Always great insight XutvJet, I look forward to reading any of your post because I know I might learn something

Yes, indeed.

The nature of car forums is that there are members who have a lot to offer, and the willingness of XutvJet to share what he's observed and learned over the years makes this forum a better place. As time goes on, I too look forward with anticipation to reading his posts.

[Throttlesteer14]

For the record, there is no Stage 2 for the B58. I believe the OP was looking at the Dinan Sport, not the Elite V2....I could be wrong. But the comparison was to the JB+, not the JB4. I can't remember if AleksanderSuave had the Elite V1, Elite V1 upgraded harness, or an Elite V2. But, I've heard of few issues with the V2. The Elite versions are the ones that are substantially more $$$.

[ralawren]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I ran the Dinan Sport on my M235 for a bit over a year. I'm currently running the Dinantronics Stage 2 piggyback. Here is my experience with both.

Dinan Sport
The unit is very simple to install. It takes a couple of minutes to install. You can change the power settings between stock, Sport, Sport+, and Race. The power is most noticeable in Sport+ and Race. Sport and Sport+ gave the best driveability. Since this is a one sensor tuning device, it tends to make the additional power delivery a bit more abrupt than stock in the lower rpms. As you increase the settings, the delivery gets more abrupt. In a 6MT car, I felt that Sport+ and Race made it harder to drive the car smoothly off the line and on the 1-2 shift. In an automatic, I doubt it would cause any issues. The throttle would just feel a little more sensitive. In really hot weather (85+) and the motor being heat soaked, power deliver could sometimes be inconsistent, meaning not all the additional power felt like it was there. Again, this is just a factor of a one sensor tuner and the DME being overly protective. Most of the time, the car just felt more powerful especially from 2000rpms to 5000rpms.

Dinantronics Stage 2
The unit is a bit more difficult to install as it piggybacks between two of the DME harness connectors. It reads and manipulates data from a number of sensors. I can change it from stock to Stage 1 to Stage 2. The unit makes quite a bit more power than the Dinan Sport, especially above 5000rpms, and power is a VERY smooth power delivery. It drives like stock and there are no hiccups in power delivery. I can nail a shift and the power on the shift is seamless. The Dinantronics Stage 2 makes less power than a typical flash tune, but it's not a whole lot less. It's like riding a big wave of power.

One note about these two devices though, you can't run the newer Android OS 8.0 (Oreo) as the Dinan app doesn't support it. That means you can't change the tuner settings which is a huge deal. You need to use an older Android device or iOS.

With any tuning device, piggyback or flash, I strongly suggest running the highest octane possible.

If you want the Dinan Sport, I have one in great condition and in the original package that I'd sell. It works on the N26 and N55. PM me if you're interested.

I experienced the issues with the DinanSport having surges of power and it caused a code at an HPDE. I have a 228i with auto. I was in Sport+ not Race Mode in 85 degree weather. When I put the setting back to stock my instructor told me I was much smoother with the throttle and my lap times were similar because of it.

Around town it is fun to use because you do feel a little extra power and responsiveness but will not use it at an HPDE again.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Always great insight XutvJet, I look forward to reading any of your post because I know I might learn something

And as someone who been through two separate vehicles, with a Dinantronics piggyback installed, I guarantee it works just as well as any flash tune, without the side effects of flash tuning the ECU.

You can toggle the Dinantronics bypass on/off to decipher the power difference, for yourself. There is a pretty obvious difference and unlike flash tuning, you're not permanently triggering the flash counter and re-writing the stock mapping; as everything is reversible.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=22603477

No matter whatever some members or vendor tells you, flashing tuning alter the original data, from the factory, even when flash back to their version of "stock." There is basically no such thing as flashing back to stock, with an aftermarket ECU tune.

With a piggyback, you disconnect it and it disappear, without a trace.

Anyone that have their doubts about the Dinantronics piggyback, please don't know it until you try it. Used units go for like $500 on eBay or Dinan sell then new, without warrant for $1,000 directly. So the price is comparable to an aftermarket flash tune and you can sell back the unit, whenever you choose.

Thank you and I totally agree with what you said. I got the Dinantronics largely because my car was still under warranty and flash tunes were still relatively new. There's something that unsettles me about using your own phone or other personal device to flash the DME. I'm too old school perhaps. I read of cases of flashes stopping midway through the process and the car become nonoperational. Usually MHD or BM3 can help the owner correct the issue. A friend of mine tried to flash his 2014 335 and the flash stopped 30% the way through. BM3 couldn't fix the issue and he had to take the car to an indy shop and get the DME reflashed to stock which took something like 20 hours and the shop had to involve BMW. That cost him $800. It's a super rate instance, but it spooked me. I saw a Dinantronics pop up for cheap and gave it a shot.

I've had a number of BMW owners that went from JB4s to flash tunes ride in my car and they're blown away by the smooth power delivery compared to the JB4. Many say it feels flashed tuned. JB4s and the like could hit like a sledge hammer when coming on boost. The Dinantronics is more linear and progressive. So, when I hear people say that piggybacks suck, my response is that it depends. Most people didn't buy the Dinantronics because of the very significant cost over the other piggybacks so the experience on the forums is very limited. The Dinantronics is the only piggyback that reads over 40 sensors and parameters to make decisions on how to manipulate boost, timing, and AFR among other things. Using this data, the unit is better at determining the power delivery compared to something like JB4 which is only reading data from a handful of sensors.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Yes, indeed.

The nature of car forums is that there are members who have a lot to offer, and the willingness of XutvJet to share what he's observed and learned over the years makes this forum a better place. As time goes on, I too look forward with anticipation to reading his posts.

Thank you. This means a lot. I've been modding cars for over 25 years. I try to provide as unbiased reviews as possible because I've wasted thousands on mods that were overhyped and the compromises under reported. I want people to know what they getting, the good and the bad. If a mod is crap, I have no issues yanking it immediately and reporting my findings.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Thank you and I totally agree with what you said. I got the Dinantronics largely because my car was still under warranty and flash tunes were still relatively new. There's something that unsettles me about using your own phone or other personal device to flash the DME. I'm too old school perhaps. I read of cases of flashes stopping midway through the process and the car become nonoperational. Usually MHD or BM3 can help the owner correct the issue. A friend of mine tried to flash his 2014 335 and the flash stopped 30% the way through. BM3 couldn't fix the issue and he had to take the car to an indy shop and get the DME reflashed to stock which took something like 20 hours and the shop had to involve BMW. That cost him $800. It's a super rate instance, but it spooked me. I saw a Dinantronics pop up for cheap and gave it a shot.

I've had a number of BMW owners that went from JB4s to flash tunes ride in my car and they're blown away by the smooth power delivery compared to the JB4. Many say it feels flashed tuned. JB4s and the like could hit like a sledge hammer when coming on boost. The Dinantronics is more linear and progressive. So, when I hear people say that piggybacks suck, my response is that it depends. Most people didn't buy the Dinantronics because of the very significant cost over the other piggybacks so the experience on the forums is very limited. The Dinantronics is the only piggyback that reads over 40 sensors and parameters to make decisions on how to manipulate boost, timing, and AFR among other things. Using this data, the unit is better at determining the power delivery compared to something like JB4 which is only reading data from a handful of sensors.

It's a shame so many people shit on the Dinantronics, merely because of the price and will never experience it, first hard.

Dinan really make or used to make (: ) great products but it seems because of the added cost, with the warranty, it automatically dissuade a lot of people, off the bat. Which is ironic because that would seem like a plus, to most reasonable people..

Flash tuning is obviously more direct but I love the reversible nature of a piggyback tune. And Dinan makes the best unit, for that job.

Like currently, in NY, I couldn't pass inspection because the piggyback was keeping the O2 and Cat emission check in a "not ready" state. I disconnect it and within half hour it was good to go. You can't put a price on peace of mind and less life/lemons situations.


Piggyback tunes and State Inspections https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1603758

[CallMeDan_Thanks]

Lots of info here to absorb. Unfortunately, I wasn't looking into getting any of the very expensive Dinan piggybacks since I'm looking to stay under the $400 threshold. I think I'm going to go with the BMS Stage 1 which I'll be ordering hopefully today or tomorrow!

Thanks again for everyone's replies!

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by Poochie

It's a shame so many people shit on the Dinantronics, merely because of the price and will never experience it, first hard.

Dinan really make or used to make (: ) great products but it seems because of the added cost, with the warranty, it automatically dissuade a lot of people, off the bat. Which is ironic because that would seem like a plus, to most reasonable people..
=

Im an owner of $3000+ worth of dinan items on my car.

I shared feedback based on poor performance, reliability issues, and poor customer service.

This wasn't just rambling based on price or repeating of what I read elsewhere.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Im an owner of $3000+ worth of dinan items on my car.

I shared feedback based on poor performance, reliability issues, and poor customer service.

This wasn't just rambling based on price or repeating of what I read elsewhere.

All you mentioned is that Dinan "Sport" is shit and don't buy it. The end.

So I have no idea why you're singling out my opinion on the full "Dinantronics" piggyback tune.. :

A little more context on your grievances would be nice, so maybe we could be on the same page and not ignorantly bash a decent product.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by CallMeDan_Thanks

Lots of info here to absorb. Unfortunately, I wasn't looking into getting any of the very expensive Dinan piggybacks since I'm looking to stay under the $400 threshold. I think I'm going to go with the BMS Stage 1 which I'll be ordering hopefully today or tomorrow!

Thanks again for everyone's replies!

Look into MHD as well.