THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Feeling done with my M240.

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-07-2021, 09:16 AM   #89
spidy512
Private
United_States
27
Rep
89
Posts

Drives: 2017 EBII M240xi
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: East Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Here's the question I always have, and it comes from having grown up in CO, WY, MT, and ND in the 50s: however did those RWD cars with their, compared to today, really chitty tires, make it through winters tougher than Truckee typically had and has?

IOW, how hard is it really to drive a RWD car in challenging winter conditions if the dads, grandpas, and great-grandpas did it with dramatically worse equipment? This is the question I keep coming back to.
Have you spent a winter in Truckee? Or many winters in Truckee? The Donner Party ring a bell (tongue/cheek)? The past 10 years of global weather change doesn't count...

Truckee most def has some of the worst winter conditions I have ever come across. Four feet of Sierra Cement overnight? That was the norm when I first lived there in the early 90's. The combo of a high water content and warm weather pounding the Sierras as the jet stream freight trains off the Pacific make for some incredible snow totals. And the stuff is like cement mixed with glue. Nothing like what the rest of the Country sees as far as snow goes. Yeah, the Canadians and everyone up north has some BRUTAL winter conditions. I have been through some crazy storms up north. But it is still very different than what goes on in Sierras. I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.

With that said, of course a properly set up RWD car can easily be driven in the snow. I am a huge fan of studless winter tires (I have also had many sets of studded) and they very much equal the playing field when comparing to AWD or 4WD. FWD is even better in many cases mainly due to the weight distribution, etc. But I do not disagree with any of you on 2WD vs AWD and is it necessary. And in a "performance" car, clearly the lack of weight and extra rotating mass makes for a more desirable combo. So I get why folks are not interested in AWD.

The problem in Truckee is chain control exist. And sometimes 2WD with snow tires does not meet the CHP's requirements based on snow conditions. Not to mention being able to successfully navigate 2 feet of snow on the road for 25 miles. Simply for convenience, I will take the AWD/4WD over the 2WD. Putting on chains suck, they can ruin your suspension over time, and you can go maybe 30 mph (not that you should be going any faster. HAHA). We also have really crappy drivers in Cali (like you didn't know that), so yet again, AWD wins as you have to navigate roads full of drift hero's that have no clue how to drive in the snow. And the progression towards SUV's as the family hauler has only made the issue worse (false sense of security much?)...

So you see, for those of us who lived/live in Truckee/Tahoe, we simply chose to err on the side or ease with the added bonus of making it simply easier to drive in snow. Without Chain control in place, your damn right many locals would absolutely drive more 2WD vehicles.

FWIW, I learned to drive in the snow in a 1977 Volvo 240DL. My Dad insisted I learn on a 2WD before I even got close to the 4WD. I thank my Dad all the time for that.... So yeah. in the past we all got around fine in 2WD. But I am willing to bet all those old Dad's, Grandpa's and Great Grandpa's would have probably chosen a AWD/4WD vehicle vs a 2WD given the opportunity. I know mine would have....

josh

PS. No need to turn this into a 2WD vs AWD thing. I think we can all respect each others experiences. I certainly respect those of you who posted about 2WD experiences, ESPECIALLY the vert. ice racer. HAHA!
Appreciate 1
dradernh1318.50

      05-07-2021, 09:37 AM   #90
Gepeto
Private
Canada
27
Rep
70
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

One thing with comparing to ę our grandparents Ľ is .. we also need to realize that car safety has improved a LOT. Sure, a drop in injuries or deaths does not correlate directly to a drop in accidents (people could still be having as many accidents and not getting injured as much), but I have a feeling iís a mix of both.

That being said, if you donít mash the throttle in corners and have good tires, youíll be more than fine.
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 1
      05-07-2021, 10:01 AM   #91
dradernh
Colonel
dradernh's Avatar
1319
Rep
2,307
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidy512 View Post
Have you spent a winter in Truckee? Or many winters in Truckee?

Four feet of Sierra Cement overnight? And the stuff is like cement mixed with glue. Nothing like what the rest of the Country sees as far as snow goes. I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.

The problem in Truckee is chain control exist.

FWIW, I learned to drive in the snow in a 1977 Volvo 240DL. But I am willing to bet all those old Dad's, Grandpa's and Great Grandpa's would have probably chosen a AWD/4WD vehicle vs a 2WD given the opportunity.
Nope. I lived in San Francisco from the 6th grade on and had friends who moved to the Tahoe area after high school. I'd go up to visit, but always made sure I wouldn't have to deal with chains or a closed highway. Chains were a major thing when I was a kid and we were living in the mountain states. I learned a lot of new words watching people put their chains on...and taking them off!

Don't underestimate the enjoyment to be derived from 24" of the stuff a Nor'easter can dump on the East Coast. That's an un-drifted 24", mind you. I'd enjoy seeing the actual difference between Sierra Cement (which I tried skiing on...once!) and what a typical Nor'easter produces. Granted, the Sierra has traditionally had greater dumps and higher rates of snowfall during the most intense storms. Many times I had to finish up after our snow plow guy had done the basics, and the heavy, wet snow left behind after a Nor'easter is guaranteed to put hair on your chest. Ten-foot winters of that stuff is the reason we left Northern New England for a place where 8" of snow is "a lot".

Yes...chains...something to be avoided. When we first moved to NNE in the late 90s we bought a V70 T5 and asked the service manager about chains. He acknowledged that Volvo did sell chains, but that no one in the region used them. I thought that meant snow wasn't really a big thing. That was wrong; chains just weren't used up there. Nor were gutters put on the roofs of people's homes.

I learned winter driving in a Volvo 122S (aka Amazon). That was in NW Arkansas, where ice was the prevailing unpleasant winter driving condition. The town had hills to boot, so creative routes had to be found to get to work and back. Most cars couldn't move on those days (although thaws tended to arrive pretty quickly, so the place would shut down for maybe one school day at the most), but the 122S would roll away from a stop on glare ice if I just let the clutch out in 1st gear with no gas. It took me a couple of tries to figure that out. That was 50 years ago, and I have no idea what I had for tires (they weren't the "snow" tires of that period) – whatever was cheapest would be my guess!
__________________
2017 M240i: MT, Sunroof Delete, EB, Leather, Driving Assistance Package, Heated Front Seats
TC Kline Coilovers; H&R Front Bar; Wavetrac; Al Subframe Bushings; 18X9 & 18X9Ĺ ARC-8s; 60mm Studs; Dinan Elite V2 & CAI; Rogue SSK; Orange MPerf BBK; Schroth Quick Fit Pro

Last edited by dradernh; 05-08-2021 at 10:44 AM..
Appreciate 1
      05-07-2021, 01:12 PM   #92
WAFU7
New Member
WAFU7's Avatar
United Kingdom
2
Rep
7
Posts

Drives: M240i
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spidy512 View Post
I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.
This made me chuckle. Parts of the UK grind to a halt with a good couple of *inches* of snow. The prospect of two feet of the white stuff, let alone more...
Appreciate 1
      05-07-2021, 02:48 PM   #93
airjesse
New Member
23
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: Vw GOLF
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Interesting to see so many former Subaru owners here. Count me as one: I had a 2010 outback for many years. I would head to the snow many times a season. Now that I'm in Southern California, time for an m240i convertible
__________________
2019 M240i Convertible in Estoril Blue
Appreciate 1
      05-08-2021, 07:40 AM   #94
morphomeman
Captain
morphomeman's Avatar
419
Rep
982
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235ix
Join Date: May 2015
Location: United States

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2016 BMW X3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M235ix  [0.00]
Remarkable data. I wonder if the trend is inversely correlated with gun deaths.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST