[ggggbmw]

Originally Posted by AleksanderSuave

Thank you for the help. I ordered 2 liters of ate typ 200 just in case. What are you running the ABS bleed cycle with? I have an Autel maxi check pro that says it’s capable of doing so but never checked if it works with our cars.

Any chance you have the details on the procedure?

I've done the bleed with both a Schwaben/Foxwell scan tool, and with the full ISTA on a laptop. The scan tool is a bit easier just because it's easier to hold once you understand the process, but ISTA has better text and pictures. The exact same procedure in each.

One thing to keep in mind is that the official ISTA procedure, and the near verbatim text copy in the Foxwell tool, only does the ABS bleed on the left rear and left front. At first I thought the Foxwell tool was goofy and missing the right side, but no, you only do it on the left. Not sure why you don't do the right side, but I guess the ABS block is exercising both sides and just moving fluid through the front or rear circuits.

I suspect Maxi Check will work fine.

[AleksanderSuave]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

I've done the bleed with both a Schwaben/Foxwell scan tool, and with the full ISTA on a laptop. The scan tool is a bit easier just because it's easier to hold once you understand the process, but ISTA has better text and pictures. The exact same procedure in each.

One thing to keep in mind is that the official ISTA procedure, and the near verbatim text copy in the Foxwell tool, only does the ABS bleed on the left rear and left front. At first I thought the Foxwell tool was goofy and missing the right side, but no, you only do it on the left. Not sure why you don't do the right side, but I guess the ABS block is exercising both sides and just moving fluid through the front or rear circuits.

I suspect Maxi Check will work fine.

I didnt end up exploring the ABS bleed procedure. Whole brake bleed ordeal turned into a nightmare.

Borrowed my buddy's motive power bleeder. Testing the lines on it. Hooked it up after pouring both bottles of ate typ 200 in.. Started the bleeding on the rear caliper..seeing a lot of bubbles coming out, thought it was odd..got up to the hood in time to see a pin hole leak in the line completely explode and send almost 2 full liters of the brake fluid out all over the car and driveway..

spent the rest of the evening trying to wash off as much as I could, ran to HD to get replacement line..clamps....repaired the bleeder, then settled for Pentosin LV4 as it was the only one in stock and had to be re-bled at that point since air was already in the lines.

brakes feel decent...only to find out that my brake pads "service" is due in about 3200 miles. Might repeat it again then and do it with typ 200 if I really want to punish myself.

Gives me plenty of time to figure out how to cycle the ABS pump.

[ggggbmw]

I feel your pain.

I had to start researching the ABS bleed processes when I was doing a simple caliper bleed between track weekends. Not doing a full flush so I was just minding the reservoir and refilling it.

I had done 3 wheels, and just had the drivers front to go. Took a glance at the reservoir and I thought I had just enough before I would have to fill it. Started the bleed, and then dropped the wrench. Of course it skittered under the car and I had to scramble to grab it. Then I couldn't get the wrench on the bleed screw. By the time I had finally closed the bleeder the reservoir was completely dry. ARGH!

It took about 4 ABS bleeding cycles, and 4 liters of brake fluid, over a couple months of trying, before I finally got all the air out and the pedal was as firm as it was originally.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

I feel your pain.

I had to start researching the ABS bleed processes when I was doing a simple caliper bleed between track weekends. Not doing a full flush so I was just minding the reservoir and refilling it.

I had done 3 wheels, and just had the drivers front to go. Took a glance at the reservoir and I thought I had just enough before I would have to fill it. Started the bleed, and then dropped the wrench. Of course it skittered under the car and I had to scramble to grab it. Then I couldn't get the wrench on the bleed screw. By the time I had finally closed the bleeder the reservoir was completely dry. ARGH!

It took about 4 ABS bleeding cycles, and 4 liters of brake fluid, over a couple months of trying, before I finally got all the air out and the pedal was as firm as it was originally.

I put a flashlight behind the brake fluid reservoir so I see exactly how much fluid is in the reservoir.

[ggggbmw]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I put a flashlight behind the brake fluid reservoir so I see exactly how much fluid is in the reservoir.

Whenever I work on my brakes, I have a bright drop light permanently next to the reservoir to keep an eye on it. That's what made it so easy to see I'd drained the reservoir when I screwed up and dropped the bleeder wrench.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

Whenever I work on my brakes, I have a bright drop light permanently next to the reservoir to keep an eye on it. That's what made it so easy to see I'd drained the reservoir when I screwed up and dropped the bleeder wrench.

Yeah, I did the same thing and the brakes were mushy. I took the car to my local indie and they did a full brake bleed including the ABS. That's when I started putting the flashlight behind the reservoir.

[Ajowhan]

I was watching some Youtube guide where they use a pressure pump to push brake fluid through the line and let older liquid out from bleed holes. Is this flushing method include the ABS? Is there a good guide in here somewhere?

[ggggbmw]

Originally Posted by Ajowhan

I was watching some Youtube guide where they use a pressure pump to push brake fluid through the line and let older liquid out from bleed holes. Is this flushing method include the ABS? Is there a good guide in here somewhere?

What you are describing is a 'pressure bleed', using a pressure bleeder device. Typically a Motive or Schwaben pump. This process does NOT bleed the ABS unit, except for the minimal passages that go through the pump.

The ABS pump has a lot of valves and passages and the pump itself that hold some brake fluid in them. To flush the ABS pump and valves, and the associated passages in the pump block, you have to 'cycle' the pump. This runs the pump and cycles the valves open and closed so that as new brake fluid moves through the system it gets into every part of the ABS block.

This is a great video on using the BMW ISTA maintenance software to do the ABS cycle bleed:

The process with an OBD tool is usually the same. Just a different tool you are pushing the buttons on. My Schwaben/Foxwell tool even steals a lot of the text from the ISTA software, and the steps are identical.

FaRKLe0079 posts a lot of good videos. He also has a good simple pressure bleed video he links to in this one.

Do you have to do the ABS cycling? Maybe not every time. I only do it in the fall when I put LV fluid back in for the winter. But definitely if you got air in the system, or you at several years since the last time you did it.

[Ajowhan]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

What you are describing is a 'pressure bleed', using a pressure bleeder device. Typically a Motive or Schwaben pump. This process does NOT bleed the ABS unit, except for the minimal passages that go through the pump.

The ABS pump has a lot of valves and passages and the pump itself that hold some brake fluid in them. To flush the ABS pump and valves, and the associated passages in the pump block, you have to 'cycle' the pump. This runs the pump and cycles the valves open and closed so that as new brake fluid moves through the system it gets into every part of the ABS block.

This is a great video on using the BMW ISTA maintenance software to do the ABS cycle bleed:

The process with an OBD tool is usually the same. Just a different tool you are pushing the buttons on. My Schwaben/Foxwell tool even steals a lot of the text from the ISTA software, and the steps are identical.

FaRKLe0079 posts a lot of good videos. He also has a good simple pressure bleed video he links to in this one.

Do you have to do the ABS cycling? Maybe not every time. I only do it in the fall when I put LV fluid back in for the winter. But definitely if you got air in the system, or you at several years since the last time you did it.

Thank you, great information. And yes I am thinking of doing the ABS cycling as I just bought my 2018 and suspect the brake fluid has never been serviced and that puts the fluid at 3 years old.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Ajowhan

I was watching some Youtube guide where they use a pressure pump to push brake fluid through the line and let older liquid out from bleed holes. Is this flushing method include the ABS? Is there a good guide in here somewhere?

Mike Miller, the BMWCCA tech guru, says you don't need to flush the ABS system unless you've installed a new/rebuilt ABS system.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

Mike Miller, the BMWCCA tech guru, says you don't need to flush the ABS system unless you've installed a new/rebuilt ABS system.

Here's the text of a recent statement by Mike Miller on the subject:

"Despite what the manuals say, not a single BMW technician I know would run the ABS pump unless it was absolutely necessary, such as when air gets in the pump--for example, when replacing the brake master cylinder. No such thing is required during an ordinary brake-fluid change or when replacing brake pads and rotors."

Mike Miller, Technical Editor
Roundel Magazine
May 2021

I can't find the quote, but I recall one of the writers at Car & Driver suggesting it's a good thing to replace the fluid in the ABS pump when doing an annual brake fluid replacement. IIRC, he said "your ABS pump will thank you". My memory may be playing tricks on me, though.

[Ajowhan]

Originally Posted by ggggbmw

What you are describing is a 'pressure bleed', using a pressure bleeder device. Typically a Motive or Schwaben pump. This process does NOT bleed the ABS unit, except for the minimal passages that go through the pump.

The ABS pump has a lot of valves and passages and the pump itself that hold some brake fluid in them. To flush the ABS pump and valves, and the associated passages in the pump block, you have to 'cycle' the pump. This runs the pump and cycles the valves open and closed so that as new brake fluid moves through the system it gets into every part of the ABS block.

This is a great video on using the BMW ISTA maintenance software to do the ABS cycle bleed:

The process with an OBD tool is usually the same. Just a different tool you are pushing the buttons on. My Schwaben/Foxwell tool even steals a lot of the text from the ISTA software, and the steps are identical.

FaRKLe0079 posts a lot of good videos. He also has a good simple pressure bleed video he links to in this one.

Do you have to do the ABS cycling? Maybe not every time. I only do it in the fall when I put LV fluid back in for the winter. But definitely if you got air in the system, or you at several years since the last time you did it.

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

Mike Miller, the BMWCCA tech guru, says you don't need to flush the ABS system unless you've installed a new/rebuilt ABS system.

Originally Posted by dradernh

Here's the text of a recent statement by Mike Miller on the subject:

"Despite what the manuals say, not a single BMW technician I know would run the ABS pump unless it was absolutely necessary, such as when air gets in the pump--for example, when replacing the brake master cylinder. No such thing is required during an ordinary brake-fluid change or when replacing brake pads and rotors."

Mike Miller, Technical Editor
Roundel Magazine
May 2021

I can't find the quote, but I recall one of the writers at Car & Driver suggesting it's a good thing to replace the fluid in the ABS pump when doing an annual brake fluid replacement. IIRC, he said "your ABS pump will thank you". My memory may be playing tricks on me, though.

Oooh, so dont need to flush ABS system unless air gets into the pump.

Hmm, that last statement dradernh, I seems to have seen that too somewhere..

Thanks guys!