[OldCrow7xx]

Previously I had a 2013 335XI M Sport. Car was only running BMS Intake, BMS Intercooler, VRSF charge pipe and BM3 Stage 1 tune.

Car was an absolute monster. Based on the in car gauges, I estimated around 400hp and 450-475tq. Throttle response was instant and it pulled like mad under full throttle.

Current car is a 2016 M235i Xdrive. This car now has CTS Intake, CTS Chargepipe, Gplus Intercooler, VRSF Catless Downpipe and BM3 Stage 2 tune.

This car that weighs ~200 pounds less, with the addition of the catless downpipe and more aggressive tune file, feels slower and based one the in car guages ( I know they are not exact) is not really making any more power. Maybe a little more HP and the same TQ as the other car.

I am very confused by these results because the addition of a catless downpipe and matching tune is advertised to be a massive power gain.

Also this car is the EWG turbo vs the previous PWG turbo, which is also advertised as having more top end power when tuned.

Any thoughts, or tuning points I missed when designing this build? Don't get me wrong the m235i is fast, but absolutely no faster than the 335i that had less modifications.

**Side note I love the sound of the VRSF Catless Downpipe. It makes the car sound like a high performance vehicle and really is not over the top unless you are WOT. Even my GF likes the sound, and doesn't complain.

I have to say I am shocked at how bad it smells, after some 0-60 sprints you WILL smell the lack of a catalytic converter with your windows down or after you park the car and get out. Hard to say its worth it because right now it doesn't seem to have added much power or throttle response over my last car that didn't have this upgrade.

[The_otherM235i]

You aren't the first person to complain about the FBO results of the M235i. FBO stage 2 plus with some race fuel will probably net you the low low 400's in hp and mid 400's for tq. We're talking wheel of course. My buddy has a 2013 335i FBO custom flash running 23psi and it's making 435whp and 450wtq and that's with e30 blend. little less on pump.

Get a custom flash, most OTS tunes are gonna run 20psi or a tiny bit more and if you really want to push the stock turbo it can be turned up to 23psi at peak, Mind you that's only for a few 100RPM's

as i said I'm FBO running MHD stage 2+ and the car runs as you would expect, boat loads of tq down low with a nice pull up top, Our turbos will lose out on the top end because they are so small, even though they are EWG. I'd say if you're still looking for more power try a meth kit and a custom flash. lot's of guys here could get you a good tuner for the M235i gen 2 N55.

[The_otherM235i]

Also fwiw a FBO M235i with a top tier tune will walk a f80 M4/M3 so we really can't be upset with the performance of our N55s.

[XutvJet]

I promise you. Your M235 is quicker and faster. "Feel" and true numbers are different things. Your 335 with the pwg N55 had a smaller turbo and power peaked at around 5500 and power dropped like an anvil after that. The N55 in your M225 makes peak power at 6200rpms and sustains 90% of the power to nearly 6700rpms. That's a huge difference. Plus with your mods, the M235 will be making 30-40 more whp and wtq. Factor in the lower weight and the M235 will walk that 335 decisively. The N55 in your M235 has a smoother and wider power delivery. That's why it doesn't feel as fast.

Peak power doesn't win races. Power under the curve wins races and your M235 has more of it.

[BostonM235xi]

Your stage 2 M235 is faster in all ways over your stage 1 335. The biggest difference in the drive is the M235 is 6 years newer, it's going to deliver the power smoother, less jerky... based on technology alone.
The pic below is the same car and mods as your car - not to bad 🤷🏻
If you need more power "feel" get a custom tune - your currently running 17 psi on bm3 stage 2. Custom will get you safely around 20-22. Or get the XHP flash and the car will feel faster, you can customize the transmission.

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by BostonM235xi

Your stage 2 M235 is faster in all ways over your stage 1 335. The biggest difference in the drive is the M235 is 6 years newer, it's going to deliver the power smoother, less jerky... based on technology alone.
The pic below is the same car and mods as your car - not to bad 🤷🏻
If you need more power "feel" get a custom tune - your currently running peak of 16.8 on bm3 stage 2. Custom will get you safely around 20-22. Or get the XHP flash and the car will feel faster, you can customize the transmission.

Interestingly enough, I was running the Stage 0+ (OEM M2 Map) tune last week and my boost spiked to 19.8 pounds.

That is the moment my OEM charge pipe exploded off the throttle body lol

So BM3 stage 2 is really capped at 16.8?

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I promise you. Your M235 is quicker and faster. "Feel" and true numbers are different things. Your 335 with the pwg N55 had a smaller turbo and power peaked at around 5500 and power dropped like an anvil after that. The N55 in your M225 makes peak power at 6200rpms and sustains 90% of the power to nearly 6700rpms. That's a huge difference. Plus with your mods, the M235 will be making 30-40 more whp and wtq. Factor in the lower weight and the M235 will walk that 335 decisively. The N55 in your M235 has a smoother and wider power delivery. That's why it doesn't feel as fast.

Peak power doesn't win races. Power under the curve wins races and your M235 has more of it.

Thanks for the reply, maybe I am crazy. I totally agree with all of your logic and insight. Maybe I just need to spend more time with the car and adapt my feel to it. Maybe it is just the power delivery is wider and smoother? IDK

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

You aren't the first person to complain about the FBO results of the M235i. FBO stage 2 plus with some race fuel will probably net you the low low 400's in hp and mid 400's for tq. We're talking wheel of course. My buddy has a 2013 335i FBO custom flash running 23psi and it's making 435whp and 450wtq and that's with e30 blend. little less on pump.

Get a custom flash, most OTS tunes are gonna run 20psi or a tiny bit more and if you really want to push the stock turbo it can be turned up to 23psi at peak, Mind you that's only for a few 100RPM's

as i said I'm FBO running MHD stage 2+ and the car runs as you would expect, boat loads of tq down low with a nice pull up top, Our turbos will lose out on the top end because they are so small, even though they are EWG. I'd say if you're still looking for more power try a meth kit and a custom flash. lot's of guys here could get you a good tuner for the M235i gen 2 N55.

Maybe I need to do dyno research then? It just seemed like based on the gauges in the software it wasn't making those kinda numbers albeit only on 93 pump. 420 crank is only what 375 wheel? I was just hoping for more on this setup. Still love the car and motor but just hoping for a little more.

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

Maybe I need to do dyno research then? It just seemed like based on the gauges in the software it wasn't making those kinda numbers albeit only on 93 pump. 420 crank is only what 375 wheel? I was just hoping for more on this setup. Still love the car and motor but just hoping for a little more.

You would be making 375 without an intercooler easy...You should be well into the 385+ range FBO stage 2+.

Again you can dabble in a meth kit, ethanol, and even some 100 octane. That'll boost it some more, other then that you'd have to go pure turbos.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

You would be making 375 without an intercooler easy...You should be well into the 385+ range FBO stage 2+.

Again you can dabble in a meth kit, ethanol, and even some 100 octane. That'll boost it some more, other then that you'd have to go pure turbos.

Yeah, you’re not making 380whp with MHDs OTS, and any dyno that says otherwise is BS. They top out around 365-370whp and yeah, they do leave plenty on the table

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, you’re not making 380whp with MHDs OTS, and any dyno that says otherwise is BS. They top out around 365-370whp and yeah, they do leave plenty on the table

You really think so? You sound pretty confident in that. What was your results?

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah, you’re not making 380whp with MHDs OTS, and any dyno that says otherwise is BS. They top out around 365-370whp and yeah, they do leave plenty on the table

How much boost do you think my stage 2+ runs at peak?

[BostonM235xi]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

How much boost do you think my stage 2+ runs at peak?

Bm3 stage 2 on N55 EWG runs 17 psi as mentioned above. I have heard MHD runs a higher boost than bm3.... I would just run a log WOT from 2500-6500 rpm.

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by BostonM235xi

Bm3 stage 2 on N55 EWG runs 16.8 psi as mentioned above. I have heard MHD runs a higher boost than bm3.... I would just run a log WOT from 2500-6500 rpm.

I'm staying steady At 18.2 with peaks of 20. I'll post a log tonight with my new fmic

[jimdigity]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

I'm staying steady At 18.2 with peaks of 20. I'll post a log tonight with my new fmic

My bm3 dashboard shows the same. OTS stage 2 map

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

How much boost do you think my stage 2+ runs at peak?

Can’t say for sure, but MHD does run more boost than BM3, but consistently makes less power. I’m sure timing and fuel play into that as well. MHD’s dynos thag show wheel show they are in the 365whp range, which isn’t bad.

I’m currently running a custom tune, i think it hits 18-20 and tapers down to 16or so.

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Can’t say for sure, but MHD does run more boost than BM3, but consistently makes less power. I’m sure timing and fuel play into that as well. MHD’s dynos thag show wheel show they are in the 365whp range, which isn’t bad.

I’m currently running a custom tune, i think it hits 18-20 and tapers down to 16or so.

That's kinda low for a fbo car...365 in the worst conditions maybe

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

I'm staying steady At 18.2 with peaks of 20. I'll post a log tonight with my new fmic

This is more inline with what I am seeing.

I peaked at 19.5 running the Stage 0+ map...So I would think stage 2 would be that much at least or more boost.

Hence why I was surprised at the numbers my sport gauges were registering. Not much higher at all.

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

This is more inline with what I am seeing.

I peaked at 19.5 running the Stage 0+ map...So I would think stage 2 would be that much at least or more boost.

Hence why I was surprised at the numbers my sport gauges were registering. Not much higher at all.

Fbo cars should be right around the 385 390 realm for most ots tunes. Running higher octane is going to aid in that of course. A custom tune or meth/e85 should get you to break the 400whp range with our cars, after that it's pretty much maxed out as far as the stock turbo goes.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

Fbo cars should be right around the 385 390 realm for most ots tunes. Running higher octane is going to aid in that of course. A custom tune or meth/e85 should get you to break the 400whp range with our cars, after that it's pretty much maxed out as far as the stock turbo goes.

I don’t know who is telling you this, but it isn’t true.

[OldCrow7xx]

Originally Posted by The_otherM235i

Fbo cars should be right around the 385 390 realm for most ots tunes. Running higher octane is going to aid in that of course. A custom tune or meth/e85 should get you to break the 400whp range with our cars, after that it's pretty much maxed out as far as the stock turbo goes.

How are FBO Audi S3 putting down 350 wheel with 2 less cylinders and 1.0 litres less of displacement?

Thats not far of from the 375-390 we are talking here on the n55.

Is the stock turbo really that lame?

[The_otherM235i]

Originally Posted by OldCrow7xx

How are FBO Audi S3 putting down 350 wheel with 2 less cylinders and 1.0 litres less of displacement?

Thats not far of from the 375-390 we are talking here on the n55.

Is the stock turbo really that lame?

Stock turbo can handle 25lbs of boost MAX and I wouldn't daily that. 400 wheel is definitely doable on a stock turbo.