[TheBat-Dad]

Hi All,

I'll be looking to grab a used 228i in the next couple months, and I am wondering how necessary the track handling package will be? Reason I ask is because there are very few ZTR’s available in Canada, especially in my price range which is around $25k, so I just want to get some opinions on if a 228i M-Sport would be good enough for me, or if I should hold out for a ZTR to pop-up on autotrader.

Some background:
This car won’t be a daily, it’s going to my 2nd car, a combination weekend backroad/3-4 times per year track car/occasional road trip car for the wife and I (when we aren’t bringing the dog). As noted the budget is $25k. I’ve never been on a track before but I’ve been angling towards trying it out for a few years, and this summer it looks like it’s finally going to happen. The 228i seems like a real solid beginner track car from what I’ve researched. And to be honest, I’ve spent wayyyyyy more time than is healthy researching this. For reference, my main car right now is a Volvo V60 T6 wagon which I love.

I am also open to other suggestions for cars if you folks have any. The checklist of things I am looking for is:
-Not a convertible, personally just don’t like them
-Some power, but doesn’t need to be a lot
-Good handler, since I want a track capable car
-Has to be an automatic, and not a crappy one
-Good sound (this is the one thing the 228i will lack)
-Looks need to be somewhat subdued, wife is insisting on this. I had a 6th gen camaro very high on my list but they are much too outlandish for her
-A sprinkling of practicality and comfort, as I mentioned I would like to road trip in this car occasionally
So based on those requirements I have narrowed down to a 228i as it seems to fit just about everything except the sound.
Thoughts and help are much appreciated!

[BarryJI]

I am a huge advocate of the THP. Not only does it offer better brakes (valuable for track use, no?) but the drivetrain and suspension options are significantly more flexible and effective with this version. It is also a much better platform for future suspension upgrades; I really like the variable suspension settings, especially when further enhanced by performance springs and the Shockware mod that can retune the shocks on the 228i. I think you will be kicking yourself if you do not hold out for a THP-equipped 228i. Without it, the car is merely a very good, refined small coupe; there is a limit to how sporty its driving manners can be. With the THP, the 228 can become a pretty fierce "Jeckyll and Hyde" machine. If you are interested in track driving or even just spirited street performance, you will probably find the stock version far too meek, you won't like the brakes and you will end up wanting to replace the suspension for harsh, one-setting springs which will not make you happy on the street. The 3-way variable suspension is the optimal setup for dual purpose street-track use. It makes no sense to me to track a non-THP 228, especially as you want the most flexibility you can get to dial out quite a lot of body roll and understeer that comes with the stock car. Even the THP-equipped car had far too much roll and push for me (and that's only for the street!) but I could address this a lot more effectively with the THP suspension platform.

As for the sound, I recommend a good performance exhaust. For me, especially because I live in an emissions-conscious state, catback is totally fine.

[TheBat-Dad]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

I am a huge advocate of the THP. Not only does it offer better brakes (valuable for track use, no?) but the drivetrain and suspension options are significantly more flexible and effective with this version. It is also a much better platform for future suspension upgrades; I really like the variable suspension settings, especially when further enhanced by performance springs and the Shockware mod that can retune the shocks on the 228i. I think you will be kicking yourself if you do not hold out for a THP-equipped 228i. Without it, the car is merely a very good, refined small coupe; there is a limit to how sporty its driving manners can be. With the THP, the 228 can become a pretty fierce "Jeckyll and Hyde" machine. If you are interested in track driving or even just spirited street performance, you will probably find the stock version far too meek, you won't like the brakes and you will end up wanting to replace the suspension for harsh, one-setting springs which will not make you happy on the street. The 3-way variable suspension is the optimal setup for dual purpose street-track use. It makes no sense to me to track a non-THP 228, especially as you want the most flexibility you can get to dial out quite a lot of body roll and understeer that comes with the stock car. Even the THP-equipped car had far too much roll and push for me (and that's only for the street!) but I could address this a lot more effectively with the THP suspension platform.

As for the sound, I recommend a good performance exhaust. For me, especially because I live in an emissions-conscious state, catback is totally fine.

Thanks for the input Barry.

Follow-up question then, there is one THP right now in Canada that I might be able to stretch the budget for, at $30k, however it's an xDrive. I would really prefer a RWD for the more pure sports car feel. Do you think the xDrive would detract from the fun or is xDrive a non-noticeable difference?

[Chili_Palmer]

Follow-up question then, there is one THP right now in Canada that I might be able to stretch the budget for, at $30k, however it's an xDrive. I would really prefer a RWD for the more pure sports car feel. Do you think the xDrive would detract from the fun or is xDrive a non-noticeable difference?

I participated in the BMW Driving Experience at a local track before I picked up my 230i and the first car I drove was a 228i xDrive. I can tell you from that drive it was noticeable that the car was awd. It was well planted but felt a bit heavy in the turns. As for on the road I do not know and since I'm not in an area that really needs awd I did not investigate further.

Good luck on your search, a 228i would be a great addition to your garage!

[BarryJI]

I would not go for the X-Drive but I live in CA. Your circumstances might justify a compromise. AWD also limits available suspension mods. Keep us posted!

[Sportstick]

I would contact a few dealers and let them know what you're looking for. I also would recommend strongly the combination of THP and rear wheel drive. Some patience now will payoff for years to come! Importing a U.S. car not feasible? Might have more luck avoiding XDrive. Good luck!

[Sypher]

OP, you will be hard-pressed to find a RWD variant of the 228i; I wanted the RWD version as well when I was purchasing mine new, but so few of them are allocated to Canada. That said, I have a 2016 228i xDrive with both THP and MSport. I also have the Dinan Shockware flash. The car without the flash felt a little floaty, but with the flash, it became much more planted in Sport and Sport+ mode. If you are planning to swap to coilover, there's no need to get the THP; MSport is enough (the bigger brakes is on the MSport pack, not THP).
I also regularly autocross the car in the summer too. The car is a little prone to understeer but it is managable with throttle modulation and power oversteer is possible given the right conditions. The biggest issue with the car in terms of handling is the lack of front camber. You will go through front tires very quickly if you don't do some camber mods.

[Maynard]

I have an x drive and love it, but it does have some limitations for tracking. I find the AWD dynamics to be different from RWD, but in a very positive way. If you are leaning more to max performance, you won't be able to fit the LCA mods (almost mandatory for any real tracking, unless you use camber plates, I hear) and it is heavier. I have also seen both positive and negative comments about the THP adjustable shocks - great for max flexibility and street use, but often replaced by those wanting more on track (and obviously more complex and heavy). I'd also mention that the xdrive gives me 4-season fun once I put snows on it - that was a big one for me as I can't do 2 cars, but it is really a bit too nice for full-blown winter hooning (fear of collisions is a bit of a constraint that I wouldn't have w/ a AWD beater).

Biggest thing is getting one that is right for you, even if it takes more time or work. don't settle too far out of the ideal, or you'll end up with regrets that can't be fixed for a few grand.

[tripitz]

228 with an M-sport non THP is pretty good.

It is also easy to upgrade the suspension to a far better suspension than what BMW offers if you really get into track driving (e.g., Ohlins road and track, multiple higher end brands, M2 suspension parts). Otherwise the handling on the M-sport is pretty good. For a newbie at the track, I suspect you will find the suspension as very predictable and communicative.

Just out of curiosity... why does the suspension firm up in sport/sport+ mode on my non THR car? Is the adaptive suspension part of the M sport? This is a 15.

[aerobod]

There seem to be a few available in Canada with RWD and auto which may have the M-Sport package: http://wwwb.autotrader.ca/cars/bmw/2...advancedSearch

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by tripitz

Just out of curiosity... why does the suspension firm up in sport/sport+ mode on my non THR car? Is the adaptive suspension part of the M sport? This is a 15.

The suspension does not adapt/firm up on MSport. That is a fixed steel suspension. I suspect you are feeling the change in the steering wheel effort and perceiving it as a suspension alteration. Selecting Sport does increase the weighting of the steering (and throttle mapping), much the same as it does on my 3 Series GT. However, the suspension has no capacity to change.

[SteveInfante]

@TheBat-Dad here's a different take on performance options. I bought the standard 228i 6MT because it was basic and balanced. I planned on upgrading this at my own pace and paying for things twice isn't my idea of smart. I also subscribe to the thought process of "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast that a fast car slow" camp. At your skill level of performance driving why not just get the standard version and modify as your skill increases. The extra money spent on the M Sport or THP would be better suited to driving instruction. That's an invaluable investment if you plan on getting into this hobby.

Does it lean a bit, yes. Does it understeer, yes. All things you need to learn to manage as a new driver before you start modding. I mean new in the HPDE sense. The only thing I would upgrade starting out is the brake system.

I've driven at events at the Nurburgring and Hockenheimring in my stock 228 and had a blast. I have done a few events here in the states as well and it's been great, inexpensive fun. The only things I modified in my car are a Stage 1 BMS tune, drop in air filter, removed the resonator on the otherwise stock exhaust, and added some sticky Continental tires. More mods will come later but it's my daily driver with just under 70K miles, trouble free, so I'm not in a hurry.

Just my take and much different than a lot of input you will find in here lately. At the end of the day it's your money. Do what makes you happy. Happy apex hunting.

[Cumberlandjames]

Took a quick look at car gurus and autotrader in the Ottawa/Quebec area and there are some for sale but looks like you'll have to increase your budget a bit. Unless you want something with very high mileage prices are above you present budget.
Why aren't you considering the M235 also? Has good suspension, improved brakes and is a ton of fun to drive. I can attest to this because we have one as a second "summer" car. I wouldn't rule out the 235 in your search.
It will be challenging to find a non-X-Drive model and a manual transmission. I think most would have been special order as dealers seem to only order auto trans.

Good Luck.

[nelsdvn]

I took the path of installing the BMW M Performance Brake kit and the M Performance Suspension on a CPO 2016 228i 6MT RWD. Allowed me to stay within budget and have some choice as to color and options.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by nelsdvn

I took the path of installing the BMW M Performance Brake kit and the M Performance Suspension on a CPO 2016 228i 6MT RWD. Allowed me to stay within budget and have some choice as to color and options.

This is another good strategy for a part-time track car, but there is one factor the OP mentioned which you really cannot achieve without THP. The change from Sport to Comfort is quite noticeable and creates a sense of "two cars in one". While his goal is some track usage, he also mentions road trips with his wife. I suspect that your set-up might result in some ride harshness protests for him to hear, even while creating a very good setup for the track. THP has been providing the "best of both worlds", based on the input I get from my wife. She can immediately tell if I have the car in anything other than Comfort when she is aboard.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by nelsdvn

I took the path of installing the BMW M Performance Brake kit and the M Performance Suspension on a CPO 2016 228i 6MT RWD. Allowed me to stay within budget and have some choice as to color and options.

I'm really considering your path! But is this really that much cheaper? When i ran the numbers from https://www.getbmwparts.com/ i priced the suspension + springs $1200, and brakes $1800, but then i was thinking if you start with a non-sport you will need 18" wheels to clear the brakes, right? So add set of wheels and tires at ~$2000.... so a total of $5000.

[SteveInfante]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

I'm really considering your path! But is this really that much cheaper? When i ran the numbers from https://www.getbmwparts.com/ i priced the suspension + springs $1200, and brakes $1800, but then i was thinking if you start with a non-sport you will need 18" wheels to clear the brakes, right? So add set of wheels and tires at ~$2000.... so a total of $5000.

There are plenty of 17"x8" wheel options that fit over the M Sport brakes so you wouldn't have to upgrade to the more expensive wheel sets. This is the route I'm going with.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by SteveInfante

There are plenty of 17"x8" wheel options that fit over the M Sport brakes so you wouldn't have to upgrade to the more expensive wheel sets. This is the route I'm going with.

Very true, and tirerack.com can help identify some which they sell. I wound up with BBS-SR 17"s over my MSport brakes. My motivation was more for a balance of ride and handling on the Michigan Moonscape roads, but the use of 17s also reduces rotating mass, which is directionally correct for improved acceleration, braking, as well as providing more tire sidewall for reducing impact harshness.

[tripitz]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Very true, and tirerack.com can help identify some which they sell. I wound up with BBS-SR 17"s over my MSport brakes. My motivation was more for a balance of ride and handling on the Michigan Moonscape roads, but the use of 17s also reduces rotating mass, which is directionally correct for improved acceleration, braking, as well as providing more tire sidewall for reducing impact harshness.

Only issue is that those SRs are very heavy; they originally came out as cheap (for BBS) winter-type wheels and the price point has attracted a lot of people to BBS quality wheels.

Overall if you think you are going to track the car, it is a slippery slope. Be honest with where you think this will end up... having a compromise with safety and performance with a street car can mean a lot of trade offs for every day life. I chose to go the safety route and bought an E36 as a track car with all safety gear (seat, hans, fire suppression, battery disconnect, harness, roll cage, etc.). Modern cars are very fast...

I think there are better options out there than the M sport suspension for dual use. The Ohlins road and track for the F22 have gotten very good reviews. After track days you change out the damper settings and can get a reasonable high quality ride.

As for brakes, until you really start getting to advanced intermediate driving, the stock 228 brakes are more than adequate with proper fluid (Motul, PFC, ATE, etc.) and track pads. My E36 still is using the 1 piston floating stock caliper with race pads and it offers plenty of stopping power. Plus, the F22 is a very light car if you skip a lot of the options that add weight (power seats, moonroof, nav). The only issue I heard is that it may not be easy to find good pads for the stock caliper size on the 228.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by tripitz

Only issue is that those SRs are very heavy; they originally came out as cheap (for BBS) winter-type wheels and the price point has attracted a lot of people to BBS quality wheels.

I guess it's all relative. True, they are not the lightest 17 wheels, although not sure among the limited choices of 17s which fit over MSport brakes. Directionally, they were helpful as they are 23lbs, approximately 3lbs per wheel lighter than the 18's they replaced, from the data I could find. BBS quality is well established, and I happen to really like the design.

[SteveInfante]

HAWK makes a good assortment of pads for the stock brakes.

[bensanford]

Originally Posted by TheBat-Dad

Hi All,

I'll be looking to grab a used 228i in the next couple months, and I am wondering how necessary the track handling package will be? Reason I ask is because there are very few ZTR’s available in Canada, especially in my price range which is around $25k, so I just want to get some opinions on if a 228i M-Sport would be good enough for me, or if I should hold out for a ZTR to pop-up on autotrader.

Some background:
... As noted the budget is $25k. I’ve never been on a track before but I’ve been angling towards trying it out for a few years, and this summer it looks like it’s finally going to happen. The 228i seems like a real solid beginner track car from what I’ve researched. For reference, my main car right now is a Volvo V60 T6 wagon which I love.

I am also open to other suggestions for cars if you folks have any. The checklist of things I am looking for is:
-Not a convertible, personally just don’t like them
-Some power, but doesn’t need to be a lot
-Good handler, since I want a track capable car
-Has to be an automatic, and not a crappy one
-Good sound (this is the one thing the 228i will lack)
-Looks need to be somewhat subdued, wife is insisting on this. I had a 6th gen camaro very high on my list but they are much too outlandish for her
-A sprinkling of practicality and comfort, as I mentioned I would like to road trip in this car occasionally
So based on those requirements I have narrowed down to a 228i as it seems to fit just about everything except the sound.
Thoughts and help are much appreciated!

What you are looking for is very similar to the new 230i I ordered and took delivery on last October - except i went with the MT. There aren't a lot of the 4 cylinder 2-series cars with M sport package and THP. Probably since many looking for that will opt for the 6 cylinder cars. I had to order one to get what I wanted. You will have to be patient, so good luck. I am definitely glad that I did get the THP, since that included the staggered wheels and the non run-flat tires. After several months, I don't think I would want to change anything on my build - but only thing might be to go with the 240i.

I have a 2013 Volvo S60 T5, and isn't even close to the performance and driving feel of the BMW.