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      06-03-2021, 07:27 PM   #23
harma24
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
I have no beliefs in the matter and continue to be inclined to change mine at the much earlier intervals that BMW formerly suggested.
I think the point of my previous post may have been missed. My point was that while transmission fluid will last for the full lifetime of the transmission, the transmission will last only as long as the lifetime of the fluid. When the fluid is toast, so is the transmission!

I changed my transmission fluid at about 65k miles. Although it came out looking nice and fresh, I'm planning on changing it again when I get to the 120 - 130k range. And at ~200k if I get that far!
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      06-03-2021, 07:35 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by harma24 View Post
I think the point of my previous post may have been missed. My point was that while transmission fluid will last for the full lifetime of the transmission, the transmission will last only as long as the lifetime of the fluid. When the fluid is toast, so is the transmission!

I changed my transmission fluid at about 65k miles. Although it came out looking nice and fresh, I'm planning on changing it again when I get to the 120 - 130k range. And at ~200k if I get that far!
Your first statement sounds like a perpetual motion machine. Utterly defies the laws of physics.

Changing it is good, but not too often. When you get up to 200k or 300k mileage, you have the tranny rebuilt.
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      06-03-2021, 07:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harma24 View Post
I think the point of my previous post may have been missed. My point was that while transmission fluid will last for the full lifetime of the transmission, the transmission will last only as long as the lifetime of the fluid. When the fluid is toast, so is the transmission!

I changed my transmission fluid at about 65k miles. Although it came out looking nice and fresh, I'm planning on changing it again when I get to the 120 - 130k range. And at ~200k if I get that far!
That seems wise. I just reviewed Mike Miller's Lifetime Maintenance Schedule regarding this fluid change, and 60K intervals seem to make sense.

One thing I've found valuable in Miller's document is learning about the evolution of BMW's recommendations, which have sometimes varied despite recommendations to use the same fluid. It's wise for the long-term owner to be aware of some of the issues Miller raises. For the 3-year lessee, none of Mike's input is relevant.

After a few track events, I had my transmission fluid changed at 9K. Did the transmission need it? Undoubtedly not, but I was done tracking and decided to put a period at the end of that sentence. Once I've installed the Rogue Engineering SSK I purchased, I'll change to a DCTF fluid at around 12K.

Generally, my fluids get changed ahead of BMW's current schedules. This includes engine, transmission, differential, coolant, and brakes. I use Mike Miller's doc as a general guide and my use of the car as an adjustment to his guide.
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Last edited by dradernh; 06-03-2021 at 07:45 PM..
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      06-05-2021, 03:22 PM   #26
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Good discussion!

Like Harma (good post about lifetime of the fluid..., made me bust out laughing) I changed my fluid in my very excellent but making me absolutely miserable automatic transmission at 65K. God only knows how much I miss driving a stick every day. Probably a new base model M3 in the near future for me shortly...I won't be looking at the grille so I don't care; let those who I pass complain about it...!!

I also changed every fluid in the car at that time despite the "lifetime" designation (quotes courtesy of drader). Although the technology and quality of fluids has improved, I would still do regular fluid changes on the oil (irrespective of mileage at least annually) and brake fluid every 24 months since it will absorb moisture and will start corroding the internals on your braking system. USA, I would say at 60 months, do it all, as GP (Good Practice). I would also replace any filter every 24 months (except the aforementioned oil each year). I maintain for the long haul (I am about to turn over 100K on my M235) so this may be overkill, but the brake fluid and engine oil are a must IMHO.

Diligent PM is cheap and goes a long way to ensuring a long life for your wheels...

My two cents worth. Great question! Good luck.
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      06-05-2021, 03:33 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Unicorn123 View Post
Good discussion!

Like Harma (good post about lifetime of the fluid..., made me bust out laughing) I changed my fluid in my very excellent but making me absolutely miserable automatic transmission at 65K. God only knows how much I miss driving a stick every day. Probably a new base model M3 in the near future for me shortly...I won't be looking at the grille so I don't care; let those who I pass complain about it...!!

I also changed every fluid in the car at that time despite the "lifetime" designation (quotes courtesy of drader). Although the technology and quality of fluids has improved, I would still do regular fluid changes on the oil (irrespective of mileage at least annually) and brake fluid every 24 months since it will absorb moisture and will start corroding the internals on your braking system. USA, I would say at 60 months, do it all, as GP (Good Practice). I would also replace any filter every 24 months (except the aforementioned oil each year). I maintain for the long haul (I am about to turn over 100K on my M235) so this may be overkill, but the brake fluid and engine oil are a must IMHO.

Diligent PM is cheap and goes a long way to ensuring a long life for your wheels...

My two cents worth. Great question! Good luck.
Excellent points and do not forget about the coolant every 24 months.
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      06-05-2021, 06:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn123 View Post
Probably a new base model M3 in the near future for me shortly...I won't be looking at the grille so I don't care; let those who I pass complain about it...!!
Well put. I'm no fan of the new look but would quickly adjust to it if I bought one. Or just park it so I always approached the driver's door from the rear!

If you do pick a new M3 up, please come back and share your driving experiences with us.
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      06-05-2021, 07:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Well put. I'm no fan of the new look but would quickly adjust to it if I bought one. Or just park it so I always approached the driver's door from the rear!

If you do pick a new M3 up, please come back and share your driving experiences with us.
I will. Honestly, I am miserable with the 8 AT on my M235. I thought I would get used to it but after 40+ years of only driving manuals, both on the street and at driving events / competitively, I am still missing the feel of the manual. Although the ZF 8 speed is really quite good, I can tell I am not getting the most out of the car and really cannot get in sync with the autobox.... Might be a personal problem...LOL.

Agreed regarding approaching from the rear.... The more I think about it though, the less I care; based on what I have read, the driving experience will more than make up for it; I typically do not care much about what a car looks like, it is all about how it feels and performs. That is what sold me on the 2 Series; it is really a great car. I'll find a car (M3) to take out and if it is what I expect, I may break my tradition of keeping my car for at least 10 years and spring for it. Not getting any younger...
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      06-05-2021, 08:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Unicorn123 View Post
I will. Honestly, I am miserable with the 8 AT on my M235. I thought I would get used to it but after 40+ years of only driving manuals, both on the street and at driving events / competitively, I am still missing the feel of the manual. Although the ZF 8 speed is really quite good, I can tell I am not getting the most out of the car and really cannot get in sync with the autobox.... Might be a personal problem...LOL.

Agreed regarding approaching from the rear.... The more I think about it though, the less I care; based on what I have read, the driving experience will more than make up for it; I typically do not care much about what a car looks like, it is all about how it feels and performs. That is what sold me on the 2 Series; it is really a great car. I'll find a car (M3) to take out and if it is what I expect, I may break my tradition of keeping my car for at least 10 years and spring for it. Not getting any younger...
I empathize with you on manuals. So much so, that I had to get a muscle car with a 4spd manual to thrash thru the gears.
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      06-05-2021, 08:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn123 View Post
I will. Honestly, I am miserable with the 8 AT on my M235. I thought I would get used to it but after 40+ years of only driving manuals, both on the street and at driving events / competitively, I am still missing the feel of the manual. Although the ZF 8 speed is really quite good, I can tell I am not getting the most out of the car and really cannot get in sync with the autobox.... Might be a personal problem...LOL.

Agreed regarding approaching from the rear.... The more I think about it though, the less I care; based on what I have read, the driving experience will more than make up for it; I typically do not care much about what a car looks like, it is all about how it feels and performs. That is what sold me on the 2 Series; it is really a great car. I'll find a car (M3) to take out and if it is what I expect, I may break my tradition of keeping my car for at least 10 years and spring for it. Not getting any younger...
Based upon the always-glowing reviews of the 8-speed AT, I'm somewhat surprised at your reaction to living with it. In the end, however, these things are a matter of personal experiences, tastes, and desires. I've thought that if I was going for an M3 I'd choose the Competition model even though it comes only with the AT. This coming from a 50+ years manual transmission driver who continues to buy them for the greater level of driving engagement they offer.

The M3 Competition's race-oriented chairs, carbon brakes, and 10-step traction control system(!) make that model highly -worthy to me. I'd probably only track it once or twice, if that, so at my somewhat advanced age I do believe that sticking with the M240i I've put so much into is my best way forward. In my experience, and having used M-cars in this fashion, the best and highest use for an M3 of any recent vintage would be for 750-to-1,000-mile bursts across the American landscape. I sold my M635CSi when I could no longer use it for that purpose. Living with it in super-congested Bay Area traffic, including commuting to work, was making me cry.

I would have killed for TC in my E36 M3 race car, much less the (apparently) motorsport-level TC that it sounds like the Competition model has. I wonder when those characters at BMW Motorsport are going to get around to offering motorsport-level ABS in a street-going M-car? Gawd, it's enough to make an old guy wish he was 20 years younger!

I'm looking forward to your possible M3 review, as I suspect it will, as they say today, "resonate" with me and no doubt with many others here, too.
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      06-06-2021, 10:56 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Based upon the always-glowing reviews of the 8-speed AT, I'm somewhat surprised at your reaction to living with it. In the end, however, these things are a matter of personal experiences, tastes, and desires. I've thought that if I was going for an M3 I'd choose the Competition model even though it comes only with the AT. This coming from a 50+ years manual transmission driver who continues to buy them for the greater level of driving engagement they offer.

The M3 Competition's race-oriented chairs, carbon brakes, and 10-step traction control system(!) make that model highly -worthy to me. I'd probably only track it once or twice, if that, so at my somewhat advanced age I do believe that sticking with the M240i I've put so much into is my best way forward. In my experience, and having used M-cars in this fashion, the best and highest use for an M3 of any recent vintage would be for 750-to-1,000-mile bursts across the American landscape. I sold my M635CSi when I could no longer use it for that purpose. Living with it in super-congested Bay Area traffic, including commuting to work, was making me cry.

I would have killed for TC in my E36 M3 race car, much less the (apparently) motorsport-level TC that it sounds like the Competition model has. I wonder when those characters at BMW Motorsport are going to get around to offering motorsport-level ABS in a street-going M-car? Gawd, it's enough to make an old guy wish he was 20 years younger!

I'm looking forward to your possible M3 review, as I suspect it will, as they say today, "resonate" with me and no doubt with many others here, too.
I am also looking forward to Unicorns M3 review.

I agree with DR on the ZF8 tranny. In my experience, it has been the closest to a manual from any automaker. So much to the point, I have been able to hold it in one gear for high revs and shift on my command. Of coarse it was just below the computer safety around 6k rpms. In the end though, it is not a manual.
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      06-10-2021, 07:03 PM   #33
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Mine is the same age. It came over on the same boat as USA-RET's.
But, mine has 35K mi. on it.

Here's my maintenance schedule:
Oil & Filter at 5K or 6 mo.
Air filter when it looks dirty (10-20K mi.)
Cabin filter at 12 mo.
Brake fluid at 3 yrs and then 2 yrs
Spark Plugs at 30k mi.
Diff fluid at 30K mi. (clutch pack MP LSD)
Trans fluid & filter (pan) at 50K mi.
Coolant at 50K mi.
Serp belt at 50K mi.
Coil packs at 60K mi.
Coolant hoses at 6-8 yrs??? Not sure how long these last. Opinions?
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      06-10-2021, 07:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterWT View Post
Mine is the same age. It came over on the same boat as USA-RET's.
But, mine has 35K mi. on it.

Here's my maintenance schedule:
Oil & Filter at 5K or 6 mo.
Air filter when it looks dirty (10-20K mi.)
Cabin filter at 12 mo.
Brake fluid at 3 yrs and then 2 yrs
Spark Plugs at 30k mi.
Diff fluid at 30K mi. (clutch pack MP LSD)
Trans fluid & filter (pan) at 50K mi.
Coolant at 50K mi.
Serp belt at 50K mi.
Coil packs at 60K mi.
Coolant hoses at 6-8 yrs??? Not sure how long these last. Opinions?
Regarding coolant, I'm inclined to follow Mike Miller's elapsed time-based schedule, as seen here: https://www.zpost.com/forums/attachm...9&d=1564415575.

As always, this is just my 2¢, and I do not claim to be an expert in these issues.
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      06-13-2021, 07:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Regarding coolant, I'm inclined to follow Mike Miller's elapsed time-based schedule, as seen here: https://www.zpost.com/forums/attachm...9&d=1564415575.

As always, this is just my 2¢, and I do not claim to be an expert in these issues.
Thanks for the link. He recommends coolant every 2 years and hoses at 120K mi. I'm surprised the hose recommendation doesn't also include a time interval. Many people won't ever reach 120K mi. The hoses won't last indefinitely (time).
I think my 6-8 years makes sense for hoses, depending on how they look.
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      06-14-2021, 08:49 AM   #36
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The latest version of Mike Miller's opus that I can find has a 2013 copyright.
Is there a more recent iteration?
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      06-14-2021, 11:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphomeman View Post
The latest version of Mike Miller's opus that I can find has a 2013 copyright.
Is there a more recent iteration?
Nope. He's explained (somewhere) that he has nothing new to add. Seems kind of odd, but I suspect he'd produce an updated version if he believed one was necessary.

It's not an end-all-be-all document, but it's still a good guide to maintaining our cars for the long haul.
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