[selmeralto]

All this talk about Sennheisers gave me the excuse I was looking for to pick up a Sennheiser PX 100-II. I had blown my Martin Logan buds anyway, so the timing was right.

After listening to several cuts I've been listening to for years on different setups I'd say the Etons are indeed very similar to the Sennheisers. There are differences of course - the headphones seem to have a faster response, the bass is a little more pronounced, and, as is the case with most headphones, the soundstage is very precise (between my ears!).

But I can now say with some confidence that if you like the characteristic Sennheiser sound, you'll like the Etons.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

All this talk about Sennheisers gave me the excuse I was looking for to pick up a Sennheiser PX 100-II.

Hehehe ... nice! Another convert. Enjoy! (Best $45 or so anyone who likes accuracy will ever spend!)

[Beartato]

I kinda of want the Etons now, Sennheisers are great. I hate all of you.

[simoneves]

Originally Posted by Beartato

I kinda of want the Etons now, Sennheisers are great. I hate all of you.

Me too. Damn it.

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by Beartato

I kinda of want the Etons now, Sennheisers are great. I hate all of you.

Originally Posted by simoneves

Me too. Damn it.

Hatred and Damnation graciously accepted.

[selmeralto]

I was listening to the Sennheisers all day yesterday and wanted to clarify something in case people familiar with Sennheisers are considering the Eton option. The high end of the Sennheisers brings out more detail than the Etons. So people shouldn't buy the Etons thinking they're going to get the upper end sound of the Sennheisers.

That said, I would also say that the Etons are very, very clear at the upper end and, as Mike has pointed out, loudspeakers and headphones are different species. It takes a very, very good set of speakers to get close to the detail that even pretty good headphones can reveal. This is due in part not only to the quality of the sound coming from the speakers/headphones but also to the clearly defined spatiality of headphone soundstages that helps to differentiate instruments and voices. On the other hand, the clearly defined spatiality of headphones is between your ears while loudspeakers present their sounds in real space - and there are advantages to that in terms of realism. Loudspeakers are capable of presenting a very good soundstage but it does get expensive to achieve this at a high level. Planar speakers in particular do a good job of spatial location and articulation.

We're getting into the psycho-acoustic weeds here but perhaps this might be interesting to some people ...

[selmeralto]

Too bad we can't swap the HK out for this:



Story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/ar...-below&hp&_r=0

Nuts, by the way, that the club would go to all this trouble and expense and then have listeners sit sideways.

[jase2addict]

I put in the eton this weekend. Now its time for the rears. I torn between the jl's and focals.

[drakensoul]

Ugh!

I ordered the Eton B100W's from eBay (acr-hof) on October 10th. They finally arrived on the 29th...

But they sent me B100W2s which don't fit! They are for the X5/X6, different mounting harness built onto them.

The ebay page clearly says B100W for the 3series/X3 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/191933855948).. Now I have to wait for the eBay return/resolution process to probably send these back to get the correct ones within the next 2 months.

Oh well. More waiting.

[mdt]

Anyone know if the criticisms of the HK system in the M2/M235i apply equally to the M135i?

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by mdt

Anyone know if the criticisms of the HK system in the M2/M235i apply equally to the M135i?

I had the HK system on my last 135i vert. I thought that was the bomb! But then again it was a vert and you have to max out the volume to hear anything with the top down.

I took a risk to buy a stripper 228i with the hifi system. I was used to buying BMW for years fully loaded with all options. But increasingly I was disappointed with the execution of BMW electronics and the premiums paid for options in reality are rarely used. After all BMW is an engine and suspension tuning company at its core.

I am glad I got the hifi system. With a few simple mods you can really outdo the HK system. For just a little more and some elbow grease you can have a fantastic system.

[fatumpsch]

Selmeralto et al,
Thanks for all the useful info and detailed write-ups and helpful hints. I've done everything suggested in this thread and it was a definite improvement that was worth the time and money. I'd rate the stock HK system as a 3 out of 10 and the Dr Strangelove setup as a 6 1/2 out of 10.

All,
I've adjusted HU settings endlessly and can't find any settings that don't sound flat. It just doesn't sound full to me. It doesn't have any immediacy or punch. The bass doesn't have much rumble. Sorry, I don't know the best way to describe it in Audio jargon. To me, though, something is still seriously lacking. And I was sure to get speaker and ASD wiring right per this thread, and install weatherstripping and dynomat. Also I don't think I even have very high audio standards (I was ok with a stock 2004 G35 stereo - for the price point).

So I am now considering adding the amp and if that doesn't fix it maybe different underseat woofers. However, I greatly respect your forthcomingness and fair/balanced warnings about both of these items concerning issues and fact it may not be worth the cost. If I could bring it up to a 7 1/2 out of 10, I'd be willing to spend another $800 ...MAYBE even $1300 for an 8 out of 10. I'm not too worried about the ECU flash issue (I can work around that). But the power cutout issue is a major concern. Any more info, thoughts, insights, suggestions? thanks!!

NOTE: updated 23NOV to increase my rating from a 5 to a 6 1/2; also upped ratings for what I'd hope to achieve if I do any more mods. Not sure if it was additional speaker break-in time, fine tuning of controls, or more time to average out my impressions, but this setup has grown on me. It seems reducing rear bias and increasing bass were a help. I'm now at +7t, +3b, +2R. Still considering an amp, though...

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by fatumpsch

Selmeralto et al,
Thanks for all the useful info and detailed write-ups and helpful hints. I've done everything suggested in this thread and it was a definite improvement that was worth the time and money. I'd rate the stock HK system as a 3 out of 10 and the Dr Strangelove setup as a 5 out of 10.

All,
I've adjusted HU settings endlessly and can't find any settings that don't sound flat. It just doesn't sound full to me. It doesn't have any immediacy or punch. The bass doesn't have much rumble. Sorry, I don't know the best way to describe it in Audio jargon. To me, though, something is still seriously lacking. And I was sure to get speaker and ASD wiring right per this thread, and install weatherstripping and dynomat. Also I don't think I even have very high audio standards (I was ok with a stock 2004 G35 stereo - for the price point).

So I am now considering adding the amp and if that doesn't fix it maybe different underseat woofers. However, I greatly respect your forthcomingness and fair/balanced warnings about both of these items concerning issues and fact it may not be worth the cost. If I could bring it up to a 7 out of 10, I'd be willing to spend another $800 ...MAYBE even $1300 for an 8 out of 10. I'm not too worried about the ECU flash issue (I can work around that). But the power cutout issue is a major concern. Any more info, thoughts, insights, suggestions? thanks!!

Hi fatumpsch,

You're welcome.

As to your general question, I think what the fix does is get the system to a cleaner, listenable, and more accurate sound that approaches what you might hear from a passably good home hifi system, given the constraints of the small space of a moving vehicle. I'd put the number more at 8 than 5 but that's a quibble.

I guess I differ from you when you say that the recommendations don't result in a more "immediate" sound. I think the changes do accomplish that. There's lots more detail in the sound as modified, especially as compared with the slush of the HK.

I do agree with you, though, that you that the system, while tighter, doesn't have a huge amount of body slam. But we are now getting into two highly personal matters: (1) individual preferences in tweaking what is, with the above changes, a pretty good system and (2) how much money people are willing to put into the system.

Regarding (1) I personally like lean, clean sounds so I'm pretty happy with the system.

Regarding (2), I think roughly $2K (HK + mods above) is about the limit of what I'm prepared to spend, given what I take to be a pretty good sound after the mods suggested above. I would have considered dropping another $500 into a woofer or subwoofer into the existing electronics if I had thought that there would have been major improvements but from what I've read that's not likely to happen. I do understand that people willing to drop thousands more on the system can and should expect improvements beyond the mods I recommend and they are likely to arrive at a better sound. But that's a choice each person will have to make for himself or herself.

If you do decide to drop another grand or so on the system as modded above, I'd be very interested to hear how it goes. I'm sure other members will be interested as well.

[fatumpsch]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

Hi fatumpsch,

You're welcome.

As to your general question, I think what the fix does is get the system to a cleaner, listenable, and more accurate sound that approaches what you might hear from a passably good home hifi system, given the constraints of the small space of a moving vehicle. I'd put the number more at 8 than 5 but that's a quibble.

I guess I differ from you when you say that the recommendations don't result in a more "immediate" sound. I think the changes do accomplish that. There's lots more detail in the sound as modified, especially as compared with the slush of the HK.

I do agree with you, though, that you that the system, while tighter, doesn't have a huge amount of body slam. But we are now getting to two matters highly personal matters: (1) individual preferences in tweaking what is, with the above changes, a pretty good system and (2) how much money people are willing to put into the system.

Regarding (1) I personally like lean, clean sounds so I'm pretty happy with the system.

Regarding (2), I think roughly $2K (HK + mods above) is about the limit of what I'm prepared to spend, given what I take to be a pretty good sound after the mods suggested above. I would have considered dropping another $500 into a woofer or subwoofer into the existing electronics if I had thought that there would have been major improvements but from what I've read that's not likely to happen. I do understand that people willing to drop thousands more on the system can and should expect improvements beyond the mods I recommend and they are likely to arrive at a better sound. But that's a choice each person will have to make for himself or herself.

If you do decide to drop another grand or so on the system as modded above, I'd be very interested to hear how it goes. I'm sure other members will be interested as well.

just to be clear: none of this is a slight to you or your suggestions. I thought your recommendations were all on point. I thought the stock system was crap. It was harsh and fatiguing. In fact, I'd contend it was such a poor platform that there isn't much we can do. I agree it's best to avoid electronics and work with the speakers and on the fringes of the current system. And.. as I implemented each and every one of your recommendations, I felt a tangible improvement. and each kept adding up until there was a pretty good improvement. It is much better now. I guess my question is: IF you were going to do anything else, what would you do next and what do you think you would gain from it - holistically, percentage wise? Any anecdotal evidence? I got nothing... I don't know anyone with any modified systems. I don't know what is left to be gained or if it will be worth it. I guess that's what I'm after: some understanding of what to expect as a return. ANYONE?
Thanks!

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by fatumpsch

Selmeralto et al,
Thanks for all the useful info and detailed write-ups and helpful hints. I've done everything suggested in this thread and it was a definite improvement that was worth the time and money. I'd rate the stock HK system as a 3 out of 10 and the Dr Strangelove setup as a 5 out of 10.

All,
I've adjusted HU settings endlessly and can't find any settings that don't sound flat. It just doesn't sound full to me. It doesn't have any immediacy or punch. The bass doesn't have much rumble. Sorry, I don't know the best way to describe it in Audio jargon. To me, though, something is still seriously lacking. And I was sure to get speaker and ASD wiring right per this thread, and install weatherstripping and dynomat. Also I don't think I even have very high audio standards (I was ok with a stock 2004 G35 stereo - for the price point).

So I am now considering adding the amp and if that doesn't fix it maybe different underseat woofers. However, I greatly respect your forthcomingness and fair/balanced warnings about both of these items concerning issues and fact it may not be worth the cost. If I could bring it up to a 7 out of 10, I'd be willing to spend another $800 ...MAYBE even $1300 for an 8 out of 10. I'm not too worried about the ECU flash issue (I can work around that). But the power cutout issue is a major concern. Any more info, thoughts, insights, suggestions? thanks!!

With aftermarket speakers and call it a day. I chose the Hertz Coax ECX 100.5. The OEM stock underseat woofers sounds great with after market power. I have all the bass and mid bass I need from the Focal by adjusting the gain and splitting the high pass and low pass filters at 200Hz.

When the stock subs can not take it anymore, I will replace with Eton b150 or Earthquake SWS-8i.

[Go Horns!]

Has anyone replaced the fronts and then just disconnected the rears? I hate having the sound come from behind me. If I don't need the rears, my preference would be to ditch them.

[mburg]

Have tried to links on ebay for the pigtails but they show up as now longer available. Does anyone have a more recent link?

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by selmeralto

Too bad we can't swap the HK out for this:

Attachment 1518373

Story here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/31/ar...-below&hp&_r=0

Nuts, by the way, that the club would go to all this trouble and expense and then have listeners sit sideways.

Ha, I'm right there with you! This is my home setup VMPS RM30 fronts and RM2 rears.

[BEM-S4]

Rears...

[BEM-S4]

One more try

[simoneves]

Originally Posted by fatumpsch

So I am now considering adding the amp and if that doesn't fix it maybe different underseat woofers. However, I greatly respect your forthcomingness and fair/balanced warnings about both of these items concerning issues and fact it may not be worth the cost. If I could bring it up to a 7 out of 10, I'd be willing to spend another $800 ...MAYBE even $1300 for an 8 out of 10. I'm not too worried about the ECU flash issue (I can work around that). But the power cutout issue is a major concern. Any more info, thoughts, insights, suggestions? thanks!!

So I went the other way and got the BimmerTech amp. I had some belated issues fitting it (see other threads) and the tune provided by BimmerTech for the F22 frankly sucks balls, but with some prompting from others I was able to come up with my own tune with which I'm pretty happy. Others have since done this too. Now that I've been listening to mine for a few weeks, I have some more tweaks I want to do (I made it too bright, for a start... I am running the HU Treble at -3 and the Bass at 0). There is still a hole in the mid-bass which I wasn't able to fill in, and I think that's just the limitation of the HK speakers. The lowest bass (well, as low as you can get with 8" drivers and 55W) is actually really good with the stock subs. I agree with others that there's no need to swap these out unless you are having limiting problems (I've made them fart a couple of times when I had it up really loud). The general sound for kick drums and such is actually really clean and tight. It's the bit above that which is lacking, but that's the door speakers' failing. And yes, the tweeters are still really harsh.

So now I'm psyching myself up to swap out the front doors for Eton B100Ws. I'm really not bothered about the rears, as I rarely have music on with passengers and I like it to be front-biased anyway, but I shall cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll end up with the JLs in the back anyway. But I'm still on hold for all of that, as I'm a bit short of disposable income right now, and Dinan springs are higher on the list.

The BimmerTech amp really did make a huge difference, though. I have followed this thread with interest, and I respect its conclusions immensely, but I don't regret getting the amp for one second. The HK amp had nothing like the clarity and authority.

As for the alleged technical issues, I haven't had the car in for service since I fitted the amp, so I haven't dealt with the flashing problem. My SA is cool, though, so I'll make it clear what I did, and if I have to swap the other amp back in temporarily then so be it.

As for the brake-light drop-out thing, I haven't experienced anything like that. It's been rock solid. I'd like to know if anyone else has, as it seems like it was just that one guy.

SE

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by simoneves

So I went the other way and got the BimmerTech amp. I had some belated issues fitting it (see other threads) and the tune provided by BimmerTech for the F22 frankly sucks balls, but with some prompting from others I was able to come up with my own tune with which I'm pretty happy. Others have since done this too. Now that I've been listening to mine for a few weeks, I have some more tweaks I want to do (I made it too bright, for a start... I am running the HU Treble at -3 and the Bass at 0). There is still a hole in the mid-bass which I wasn't able to fill in, and I think that's just the limitation of the HK speakers. The lowest bass (well, as low as you can get with 8" drivers and 55W) is actually really good with the stock subs. I agree with others that there's no need to swap these out unless you are having limiting problems (I've made them fart a couple of times when I had it up really loud). The general sound for kick drums and such is actually really clean and tight. It's the bit above that which is lacking, but that's the door speakers' failing. And yes, the tweeters are still really harsh.

So now I'm psyching myself up to swap out the front doors for Eton B100Ws. I'm really not bothered about the rears, as I rarely have music on with passengers and I like it to be front-biased anyway, but I shall cross that bridge when I come to it. Maybe I'll end up with the JLs in the back anyway. But I'm still on hold for all of that, as I'm a bit short of disposable income right now, and Dinan springs are higher on the list.

The BimmerTech amp really did make a huge difference, though. I have followed this thread with interest, and I respect its conclusions immensely, but I don't regret getting the amp for one second. The HK amp had nothing like the clarity and authority.

As for the alleged technical issues, I haven't had the car in for service since I fitted the amp, so I haven't dealt with the flashing problem. My SA is cool, though, so I'll make it clear what I did, and if I have to swap the other amp back in temporarily then so be it.

As for the brake-light drop-out thing, I haven't experienced anything like that. It's been rock solid. I'd like to know if anyone else has, as it seems like it was just that one guy.

SE

Very nice post, Simoneves. It's good to get different perspectives.