[Drtsk]

I gave my 135i DD to my daughter when she got her license this past July.
I went and got a 2017 Subaru WRX base model couple of months before relinquishing the 135i. 1st non German car in 35+ years of driving and 1st AWD. I try to personalize the WRX with Cobb Accessport and high end aftermarket wheels, but I am missing my 135i (actually BMW as dd).
I am thinking of upgrading to 2 series and getting rid of the WRX. I am leaning toward 228 or 230 with Msport and 6MT. I’m not really interested in M235/M240 or M2 unless someone can convince me otherwise. I am looking for a DD with good gas mileage and little bit of fun.
Any advice from previous 1 series and WRX owners who currently have
2 series?

[p912guy]

Let me be the first to say go and drive both the 228/230 and m235/m240 back to back and compare and contrast and then decide. Only you will know which makes you happy. When I started to consider a 2 Series, I was originally leaning toward the 228, but I found a great deal on my m235 with every feature I wanted so that's where I ended up and have never regretted the decision. If someone offered to swap my used m235i for a brand new 230 optioned exactly as I'd like, I would respectfully decline.

[champignon]

It sort of depends on what you are missing from your former 135i.

I have not owned a WRX, however I have have owned 4 MT Subarus over the years, none now, most recently a 2015 STi, which I traded in on a Golf R, which is my "utility/practical" vehicle.

As to the 2 series, I have driven a friend's 228ix, a loaner 230i from the dealer, and recently did a test drive of an M2. I currently own 3 of the 1-Series cars, a 135i which I've had slightly modified (PPK engine flash adding ~20 hp, some M3 suspension parts substituted), a 135is convertible, and a 1M. All of these are 6MT.

I haven't driven a 240i, but my understanding is that the electric power steering (EPS) in the 2-Series other than the M2, is more or less identical to that found in the 3 and 5-Series, other than the M3. I've also driven many current model loaners from the dealer in the 3 and 5 series.

The biggest downside to any of the current BMWs is the EPS, which gives limited to no road-feel/feedback, and has very little steering resistance, although the latter can be increased somewhat by going into the "sport" mode.

I don't know what kind of power steering your WRX has; if it is hydraulic and similar to what was in my recent STi, then the steering in the WRX is superior to what is in the 2-Series and probably also in the M2. If it is electric, then I just don't know what it is like.

As to interiors, appearance, etc., Subarus are kind of cheap and if you are used to almost any BMW this is fairly obvious. So if this is what you are missing, a 2-Series car may fit the bill.

If on the other hand you prefer a more analog type car, and you miss the hydraulic power steering, you are probably going to be disappointed in any 2-Series other than maybe an M2. In that case you could consider trying to find a used 1-Series car in good condition; their resale prices have fallen like a boulder on a steep mountainside (as will unfortunately also happen to the regular 2-Series cars), so you could pick up a real bargain with that approach.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by champignon

It sort of depends on what you are missing from your former 135i.

I have not owned a WRX, however I have have owned 4 MT Subarus over the years, none now, most recently a 2015 STi, which I traded in on a Golf R, which is my "utility/practical" vehicle.

As to the 2 series, I have driven a friend's 228ix, a loaner 230i from the dealer, and recently did a test drive of an M2. I currently own 3 of the 1-Series cars, a 135i which I've had slightly modified (PPK engine flash adding ~20 hp, some M3 suspension parts substituted), a 135is convertible, and a 1M. All of these are 6MT.

I haven't driven a 240i, but my understanding is that the electric power steering (EPS) in the 2-Series other than the M2, is more or less identical to that found in the 3 and 5-Series, other than the M3. I've also driven many current model loaners from the dealer in the 3 and 5 series.

The biggest downside to any of the current BMWs is the EPS, which gives limited to no road-feel/feedback, and has very little steering resistance, although the latter can be increased somewhat by going into the "sport" mode.

I don't know what kind of power steering your WRX has; if it is hydraulic and similar to what was in my recent STi, then the steering in the WRX is superior to what is in the 2-Series and probably also in the M2. If it is electric, then I just don't know what it is like.

As to interiors, appearance, etc., Subarus are kind of cheap and if you are used to almost any BMW this is fairly obvious. So if this is what you are missing, a 2-Series car may fit the bill.

If on the other hand you prefer a more analog type car, and you miss the hydraulic power steering, you are probably going to be disappointed in any 2-Series other than maybe an M2. In that case you could consider trying to find a used 1-Series car in good condition; their resale prices have fallen like a boulder on a steep mountainside (as will unfortunately also happen to the regular 2-Series cars), so you could pick up a real bargain with that approach.

Thank you for the info.
I’m officially jealous, three 1 series including a 1M.
Do u think it is possible to dd a 1M?
I have never driven a 1M, but I’m sure it is incredible.
I recently got rid of my 15’ F82 with DCT. I still have the winter setup from the M4. I’m sure it would fit on the 1M.
I keep hearing how wonderful 228 is with track package or Msport in a 6MT.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by p912guy

Let me be the first to say go and drive both the 228/230 and m235/m240 back to back and compare and contrast and then decide. Only you will know which makes you happy. When I started to consider a 2 Series, I was originally leaning toward the 228, but I found a great deal on my m235 with every feature I wanted so that's where I ended up and have never regretted the decision. If someone offered to swap my used m235i for a brand new 230 optioned exactly as I'd like, I would respectfully decline.

I just can’t seem to find a 6MT in a 2 series to test drive.

[p912guy]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I just can’t seem to find a 6MT in a 2 series to test drive.

That will certainly be a challenge. I have no doubt the reason I got the great deal on my m235 convertible was because it was a 6 MT. It was in the dealer's inventory for 15 months, most of that time on the showroom floor and I am certain it was just patiently waiting for me to take it home. I think it was a customer ordered car that wasn't delivered because the customer backed out for some reason or another. Take it from me, if you think you want the 6 MT, it's worth ordering without doing a test drive, because the likelihood of finding one in a dealer's inventory is pretty slim. My previous car was a 2011 MINI Cooper S, also with the 6 MT which was a pretty good transmission, but the 6MT in my m235 is so much better. My wife would have really preferred the 8 AT, but I was able to sell her on my car because of the great deal I was able to get.

[Drtsk]

Originally Posted by p912guy

That will certainly be a challenge. I have no doubt the reason I got the great deal on my m235 convertible was because it was a 6 MT. It was in the dealer's inventory for 15 months, most of that time on the showroom floor and I am certain it was just patiently waiting for me to take it home. I think it was a customer ordered car that wasn't delivered because the customer backed out for some reason or another. Take it from me, if you think you want the 6 MT, it's worth ordering without doing a test drive, because the likelihood of finding one in a dealer's inventory is pretty slim. My previous car was a 2011 MINI Cooper S, also with the 6 MT which was a pretty good transmission, but the 6MT in my m235 is so much better. My wife would have really preferred the 8 AT, but I was able to sell her on my car because of the great deal I was able to get.

I had a 2013 335is 6MT with billet short shifter kit. Unfortunately, I gave it to my son for his 21st birthday last September. That shifter was absolutely fantastic. If you have any desire to slightly modify your shifter, I highly recommend the billet short shifter kit. It rivals my GT4 short shifter kit on my 991.1 c2s.
That is the exact reason why I don’t want to order. I feel like I can get a great deal if I can find one that has been on the lot for a while. Searching for that right car is half of the fun.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

Thank you for the info.
I’m officially jealous, three 1 series including a 1M.
Do u think it is possible to dd a 1M?
I have never driven a 1M, but I’m sure it is incredible.
I recently got rid of my 15’ F82 with DCT. I still have the winter setup from the M4. I’m sure it would fit on the 1M.
I keep hearing how wonderful 228 is with track package or Msport in a 6MT.

There are people who DD their 1Ms, but I'm not one of them. It is strictly a late spring through fall fun car for me. I bought it when it was 3.5 years old, and it was a cross border deal, from Canada. I have put around 5000 miles on it in the almost 2.5 years I have owned it. For me, the car is just too valuable to DD, and as long as I keep it relatively low mileage (it now has ~30K miles on it), although it is not an "investment," I think it is pretty much holding its value. I think that if I drove it more that the allure would likely wear off.

I think you should seriously consider a lower mileage used 135i or 135is; these things are being given away now, are still great cars, and well worth consideration given your feeling that the WRX doesn't suit you. I know the feeling of owning a Subaru once you have had a BMW, and it is hard to turn back.

Another option would be to consider a Mark VII (current version) VW Golf R. These are much better appointed inside than any Subaru (or any other VW, either), have around 300 hp, are AWD on demand with the Haldex system, the current version of which is good, plus they don't have that "boy-racer" feel of a WRX or an STi. They do have electric steering, not great electric steering, but acceptable. You could probably pick up a used one in the low 30's, or a new one for around $40K. Gas mileage is very good, can get close to 30 mpg on the hwy.

[Ron Jeffries]

Golf R is a fine and fun little car. 135is ditto. I wanted AWD so as to be down to one car, which was the only reason I traded my 135is for an m240i xDrive. The 135is is more fun on the fun days but I expect the m240i to average higher because I can drive it year round, and it's definitely more fun in the rain.

[XutvJet]

I had a 2012 WRX Limited with custom tuned Bilsteins, RCE Yellow springs, 18X8.5 Enkei Rajjin wheels with MPSS tires, and a host of other minor suspension mods. That car had hydraulic steering (same box found in all STIs; ALL 2015+ WRXs are electric sterering) and the WRX doesn't hold a candle to the overall feel of my M235's steering. And the 3/4 series steering feel is nothing like the M235/M240's. The 3/4 series, even the newer models with the revised steering and suspension, don't have the tactile feel of the M235. Though it's not perfect, but it's still quite good especially compared to any electric rack I've driven. I'm sure the M2 and most anything from Porsche is better, but I definitely would never compare the M235/240 steering feel to that of the 3/4 series. Not even the same ball game, IMO.

You really should go drive a M Sport 228/230 or M235/M240 before making a decision to go back to a 135. The 2 series is simply a better performing and driving car in all aspects except for perhaps marginally worse steering feel. Also, I'd definitely drive a M235/240 if you really liked the turbo 6 power of the 135. The 4 banger turbos are strong, but they're not overly sexy sounding nor as smooth running. A 6MT 228/230 is on par with the performance of your 2017 WRX. They both trap around 98-100mph in the 1/4 mile. The M235/M240 is much stronger and see 7 to 9 mph higher trap speeds. That's pretty significant and I find the power plenty usable on the street without being overwhelming like say the power in the M3/M4.

[aerobod]

A couple of differences between our 135i and M240i that replaced it are the fuel economy (about 20% better in the M240i) and the torque - equivalent in the M240i to a stage 1 Cobb tune that we had on the 135i.

[CO_Steve]

Originally Posted by Drtsk

I am looking for a DD with good gas mileage and little bit of fun.

If you really want GOOD gas mileage and a little bit of fun go get a 328d .

If on the other had you want good mileage and a LOT of fun M235 all the way.

When I was shopping it looked like by the time you optioned up a 228 with Msport and all the other goodies you were getting close to M235 pricing. That four will never compare to the six.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I had a 2012 WRX Limited with custom tuned Bilsteins, RCE Yellow springs, 18X8.5 Enkei Rajjin wheels with MPSS tires, and a host of other minor suspension mods. That car had hydraulic steering (same box found in all STIs; ALL 2015+ WRXs are electric sterering) and the WRX doesn't hold a candle to the overall feel of my M235's steering.

I was under the impression that the hydraulic rack in my 2015 STi was a different and much better rack than found in the WRX of the same vintage. In fact, I think I read that it was a German rack of some sort. My impression while driving it was that the hydraulic steering was excellent.

The problem with the STi is, however, that the whole is less than the sum of the parts. Even though it has an interior that is much better than most Subarus, it still sucks severely, the car has no sound insulation whatsoever, and it rides as roughly as a golf cart on a dirt road. I always enjoyed driving that car for the first 15 minutes that I got into it, after that I felt like a UPS parcel van driver. And any time I took it on the freeway at high speeds (the interstate speed limit in my state is 80mph outside of the cities), the car was so noisy and so rough that all I wanted to do was to get out of the car.

[jordantii]

I came from a 135i and got the M235i. There really is no comparison. The 235 is better in every way minus the steering feel, which you get accustomed to. I have owned 17 BMW's. Several M5's, 88 M3 (never should have sold that one) 2002's, race cars, etc. The M235 is honestly the best overall street car I have ever owned. It just does everything well. Quick, comfortable, reliable, good MPG and grip. It's a well sorted car.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by champignon

I was under the impression that the hydraulic rack in my 2015 STi was a different and much better rack than found in the WRX of the same vintage. In fact, I think I read that it was a German rack of some sort. My impression while driving it was that the hydraulic steering was excellent.

The problem with the STi is, however, that the whole is less than the sum of the parts. Even though it has an interior that is much better than most Subarus, it still sucks severely, the car has no sound insulation whatsoever, and it rides as roughly as a golf cart on a dirt road. I always enjoyed driving that car for the first 15 minutes that I got into it, after that I felt like a UPS parcel van driver. And any time I took it on the freeway at high speeds (the interstate speed limit in my state is 80mph outside of the cities), the car was so noisy and so rough that all I wanted to do was to get out of the car.

It's the same rack except the STI runs a quicker ratio. It's wider OEM wheels and tires and quicker ratio improved weight and feel over that of the WRX. Lots of WRX and Forester owners swap the 2015+ STI racks onto their cars.

Agreed about the build quality as well. Mine was a 2012 so it's even more cheaply built. I spent hours upon hours of stripping panels and adding felt tape everywhere to silence rattles. Hard plastic, rattles, and a general brittleness to the car is what led me to look elsewhere. You have to remember, these are low $20K entry level cars that are souped up. You pay for the performance parts, but nothing is done to address it's entry level build quality.

[champignon]

Originally Posted by jordantii

I came from a 135i and got the M235i. There really is no comparison. The 235 is better in every way minus the steering feel, which you get accustomed to. I have owned 17 BMW's. Several M5's, 88 M3 (never should have sold that one) 2002's, race cars, etc. The M235 is honestly the best overall street car I have ever owned. It just does everything well. Quick, comfortable, reliable, good MPG and grip. It's a well sorted car.

I'm curious to know in what ways you feel that the M235i is superior to the 135i. I have no ego involvement in this; my 135i is my "basic" 1-Series car, and although I have swapped in some M3 suspension parts (recently) and also applied the PPK flash to it, my use of this car is mostly in the winter when I don't use my more interesting cars (1M, 135is convertible, 996 TT, and Z3M Coupe).

I have driven a friend's 228ix, test driven an M2 for 20 miles recently, and had a 230i loaner from the dealer. So it isn't like I have never driven or encountered a 2-Series.

The engine in the 235i is the N55 from the old 1-Series in its last years. Perhaps they have improved it a little, but it's the same engine. I doubt that the MT has been improved, and the 135i had the DCT, whereas the AT in the 2-Series can't be viewed as much of an improvement on that fine automatic.

I found the suspension in the 228ix and in the 230i to be a bit mushier than in the 135i, which might be of advantage to some people if they prefer a more "comfortable" ride.

The hydraulic steering in the 2-Series is very much inferior to the hydraulic steering in the 1-Series; whether or not you can get used to that is sort of like whether you can get used to vending machine coffee; you can, without a doubt, if you have no other option.

The dash and instrumentation are definitely more "modern," however a purist would prefer the old analog type dash of earlier cars, including the 1-Series, and will get an oil gauge in addition, which is not there in the 2's.

So if one is looking for a "connected" driving experience, I'm not sure how you draw the conclusion that the 235i is "better in every way" than a 135i. I'm not seeing it.

This is not to criticize the 2-Series, which I think is fine. I just happen to think that the 1-Series was fine also, and I see the comparison as being one of pluses and minuses, not a clear-cut improvement on the part of the 2-Series, unless one is after, primarily comfort rather than driving performance and "connectedness" to the driver.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by champignon

I'm curious to know in what ways you feel that the M235i is superior to the 135i. I have no ego involvement in this; my 135i is my "basic" 1-Series car, and although I have swapped in some M3 suspension parts (recently) and also applied the PPK flash to it, my use of this car is mostly in the winter when I don't use my more interesting cars (1M, 135is convertible, 996 TT, and Z3M Coupe).

I have driven a friend's 228ix, test driven an M2 for 20 miles recently, and had a 230i loaner from the dealer. So it isn't like I have never driven or encountered a 2-Series.

None of the above mentioned models have Adaptive M Suspension found in the m235/40, which could absolutely change your thoughts on suspension feel

The engine in the 235i is the N55 from the old 1-Series in its last years. Perhaps they have improved it a little, but it's the same engine. I doubt that the MT has been improved, and the 135i had the DCT, whereas the AT in the 2-Series can't be viewed as much of an improvement on that fine automatic.

MT has been improved, it's a newer version of the ZF-6MT, much smoother than what was offered in the E series chassis

I found the suspension in the 228ix and in the 230i to be a bit mushier than in the 135i, which might be of advantage to some people if they prefer a more "comfortable" ride.

Again, apples to oranges, the sport oriented suspension is only offered on the M variant model, or 228i with THP

The hydraulic steering in the 2-Series is very much inferior to the hydraulic steering in the 1-Series; whether or not you can get used to that is sort of like whether you can get used to vending machine coffee; you can, without a doubt, if you have no other option.

You're right. The 2 series is electric, though. The 1 series is Hydraulic, FWIW........ And steering feel is SO subjective, everyone is going to feel different, here.

The dash and instrumentation are definitely more "modern," however a purist would prefer the old analog type dash of earlier cars, including the 1-Series, and will get an oil gauge in addition, which is not there in the 2's.

Wow, now we're getting picky. The 2 series has one of the most "simplistic" dashboards available, today. With this theory we should all buy 80's and 90's because they are the epitome of analog

So if one is looking for a "connected" driving experience, I'm not sure how you draw the conclusion that the 235i is "better in every way" than a 135i. I'm not seeing it.

I think the 1 series will make you "feel" more connected, because it's less refined, has hydraulic steering and a shorter wheelbase/track width, and that's a factor for some. The 2 series is a smoother yet faster car, though, that can't be argued.

This is not to criticize the 2-Series, which I think is fine. I just happen to think that the 1-Series was fine also, and I see the comparison as being one of pluses and minuses, not a clear-cut improvement on the part of the 2-Series, unless one is after, primarily comfort rather than driving performance and "connectedness" to the driver.

The 1 series was and is a fine car. But it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself of your own convictions.

[XutvJet]

Keep in mind you haven't driven an M235, just a standard issue 228ix and an 230i, neither I bet had the M Sport package which comes stock on the M235. The M Sport package on the M235 includes staggered wheels and MPSS tires, Comfort and Sport adjustable steering (big difference between the two settings), stiffer springs, adaptive shocks (notable differences between settings compared to that of the 3/4 series), and M3/M4 calipers (smaller rotors though).

The M235 N55 is equipped with the MPPK from the factory, has an electronic wastegate and 4 inch exit/downpipe flange on the turbo which results in ~15-20whp more power over the N55 found in the 320hp 135is, the M235/M2 run a forged crank (instead of cast like is found in the other N55s), and some additional oil cooling features.

The M235 has a far better rear suspension setup with more compliance and control than the 135/135is. The M235's longer wheelbase improves stability and of course, interior space.

Lastly, in BMW's own tests the M235 was quicker around the Ring than the 1M, it's benchmark. That's saying something given the sport/luxury focus of the M235, relatively narrow tires and wheels, and the M equipment and track focus of the stellar and sexy 1M.

[bryan_G01]

id say go lightly used m235. m2 is not required for your needs. 228/230 albiet fun, lacks power and features your going to want for long term.

[champignon]

No one who cared about performance or ride in their 1-Series car left the run crap tires on the car for any longer than they needed to. All three of my 1-Series cars got brand new tires as soon as I could get them mounted after receiving the used cars (the 1M because the tires were old and worn out, and the others because I could not tolerate the run-craps). All three of these cars have newish MPSS, which aren't all that expensive and its an easy fix to the crap tires that were supplied on the 135i, 135is, and 128i.

So yes, positively, if someone bought a 1-Series and kept the run craps on it, then that's +1 for any 2-Series that came with regular summer sports tires. Otherwise, you can easily have staggered MPSS or whatever you want, on a 1 or a 2-Series car.

I'm really not trying to convince myself of anything, trust me. My 135is convertible is a long term keeper and I bought it as such 2 years ago with ~6000 miles on it. My 1M is obviously a keeper. I haven't been looking at regular 2-series cars, but I have interest in them since I'm interested in BMWs in general, and because I will probably buy an M2 in the near term. When I do buy the M2, I will trade in my 135i coupe, and I will use the M2 just as I use the 135i Coupe now; as a year round car for which I will buy snow tires.

I will trade in the 135i Coupe because it is my least remarkable/least useful car, although very much fun to drive. My Golf R is way more useful being as it has AWD, but way less fun to drive than the 135i. Unfortunately, I need to have *one* practical vehicle, so the R stays. If I had parking for an additional car, I would keep the 135i coupe, but I don't, so it's the logical car to go, not because I don't like it, but because I will not have anywhere to garage it.

Plus, 6 cars for one person is a bit over the top, and 7 would just be wholly ridiculous . . . . . :-)

[wdc330i]

Maybe consider a 235i/240 AWD to replace your 135 coupe and Golf R.

[Ron Jeffries]

Interesting. I'v never had anything to object to with runflats, other than the ride is a bit stiff. What's your issue with them?

I can certainly see keeping a 135is convertible, though I traded mine for the m240i xDrive convertible, but that's because I don't have room for six cars, or even one.

I only test-drove the Golf R on a long ride but I'm not sure I'd consider it less fun than a vanilla 135i. Definitely not as much fun as a 135is top-down day, but I thought it was rather a hoot.