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      10-15-2018, 12:45 PM   #23
XutvJet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_Quik View Post
Yes it does. map 1,2,3 and 5 are additive maps. For example Map 1 adds 3 psi to ecu boost. Map 2 adds 4 psi. Map 3 adds 6 psi. Theres also absolute maps where you set your own limit and jb4 will add or decrease boost to reach that target.
The JB4 doesn't stack on the MPPK. An M235 with Map 1 makes the same power on the dyno as a 2014+ 335/435 non-MPPK running Map 1. If they stacked, the M235 would obviously be making more power. It doesn't.

The power advantage to the JB4 over the JB+ and Dinantronics Sport is its ability not only to add boost, but manipulate some timing and AFR to some extent. Timing is the real kicker and advantage.
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      10-15-2018, 12:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyletrann View Post
XutvJet,
Is there any bonuses to stacking the JB+ and Dinan? Seems like itís just better off getting the JB4 and having all, if not more, options then the other two. I think for the simplicity, Iíll just go with a JB4 and not have to deal with more than one tune/app/program.
I would not stack a JB+ or Dinantronics Sport on a JB4. You can and some have, but it's not very safe.

If you want the best and most consistent power, the flash tunes are the only way to go.
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      10-15-2018, 12:55 PM   #25
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Do a flash tune. Iím researching myself, but tunes are more consistent.
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      10-15-2018, 01:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The JB4 doesn't stack on the MPPK. An M235 with Map 1 makes the same power on the dyno as a 2014+ 335/435 non-MPPK running Map 1. If they stacked, the M235 would obviously be making more power. It doesn't.

The power advantage to the JB4 over the JB+ and Dinantronics Sport is its ability not only to add boost, but manipulate some timing and AFR to some extent. Timing is the real kicker and advantage.
Oh i just did some quick research, i guess the m235 just makes the same power as a regular 335. My m240 makes more power stock than a regular 340 unless equipped with an mppsk. So thats why the m235 doesnt make more power than a 335. But the jb4 does stack boost on either case. It cant tell if you have mppk or not in either case. At least thats how it is with the b58 motors.
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      10-15-2018, 01:41 PM   #27
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I am currently running a JB+ which gives a nice power increase over stock at standard setting, the car is currently under warranty but when this expires I will probably get a full dyno remap as I intend to keep the car. The JB+ is extremely good value for money with what it gives.
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      10-15-2018, 01:58 PM   #28
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Thanks for the info on stacking tunes, etc.!

What flash tunes are available and what price ranges are we talking? I may just run JB4 to change maps on the fly and maybe have a custom tune later down the road if I choose to do so.
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      10-15-2018, 04:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_Quik View Post
Oh i just did some quick research, i guess the m235 just makes the same power as a regular 335. My m240 makes more power stock than a regular 340 unless equipped with an mppsk. So thats why the m235 doesnt make more power than a 335. But the jb4 does stack boost on either case. It cant tell if you have mppk or not in either case. At least thats how it is with the b58 motors.
Not to beat an off topic dead horse, but the M235 comes with the MPPK tune as stock. The M235 is rated at 320hp/330tq. The 335/435 of the same year has 300hp/300tq. The MPPK on the 335/435 brings the power up to 320hp/330tq.

The JB4 does not stack on top of the MPPK. I promise you that.
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      10-15-2018, 04:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyletrann View Post
What flash tunes are available and what price ranges are we talking? I may just run JB4 to change maps on the fly and maybe have a custom tune later down the road if I choose to do so.
Go to the N55 section of this forum. All answers are there regarding flash tunes.
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      10-15-2018, 05:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Go to the N55 section of this forum. All answers are there regarding flash tunes.
I'll go ahead and look into the N55 section, thanks
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      10-15-2018, 05:50 PM   #32
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How can you compare reliability between the jb4 and Dinan stage 1? I know Dinan keeps warranty but say you are already out of warranty, is it still smarter to go with Dinan because of reliability or is the jb4 also reliable?
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      10-15-2018, 06:20 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnoble View Post
How can you compare reliability between the jb4 and Dinan stage 1? I know Dinan keeps warranty but say you are already out of warranty, is it still smarter to go with Dinan because of reliability or is the jb4 also reliable?
I could be wrong, but I think if you are not on warranty then JB4. From other users responses in this thread, Dinan is great but it is more prone to throwing a CEL. I haven't heard about many issues from JB4 when installed correctly and used correctly. Dinan seems to be good if your car still has warranty with the dealership

By more reliable, I'm assuming you mean your car wont get an error code.. then JB4>Dinan.
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      10-15-2018, 06:48 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Not to beat an off topic dead horse, but the M235 comes with the MPPK tune as stock. The M235 is rated at 320hp/330tq. The 335/435 of the same year has 300hp/300tq. The MPPK on the 335/435 brings the power up to 320hp/330tq.

The JB4 does not stack on top of the MPPK. I promise you that.
Lol okay then go to burger tuning website and you tell me how the jb4 works. anyways, unless youre running a jb4 like i am i think id know a little bit more about how the jb4 works.
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      10-15-2018, 07:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_Quik View Post
Lol okay then go to burger tuning website and you tell me how the jb4 works. anyways, unless youre running a jb4 like i am i think id know a little bit more about how the jb4 works.
There are countless threads, including responses from Terry at BMS and vendors, stating that the JB4 will not stack on the MPPK. Add the JB4 to your M235 and you'll make the same power as a non-MPPK 2014+ non-MPPK N55 with a JB4, map for map. It's the primary reason why 335/435 crowd foregos the MPPK. I dare you to do the following Google search: "Does the JB4 stack on the MPPK"

What the JB4 will also do on MPPK equipped N55s is negate most of the exhaust burbles. Why? Because the JB4 takes over some of the fuel delivery programming and ignores the MPPK injector feature which dumps a tiny amount of fuel into the exhaust to create the burbles.

I'm not running the JB4 because the execution of the device is rather rudimentary and running the OBD sensor through the firewall on a 6MT is a royal pain because having to cut an access rubber grommet and running the risk of slicing/rubbing the clutch slave hose. I like being able to return to stock quickly and I'm not consumed with adding a ton of power to the car.
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      10-16-2018, 09:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyletrann View Post
I could be wrong, but I think if you are not on warranty then JB4. From other users responses in this thread, Dinan is great but it is more prone to throwing a CEL. I haven't heard about many issues from JB4 when installed correctly and used correctly. Dinan seems to be good if your car still has warranty with the dealership

By more reliable, I'm assuming you mean your car wont get an error code.. then JB4>Dinan.
I was referring to long term engine reliability. Iím curious which tune would let your engine last a longer time. Or if both arenít good for engine in the first place.
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      10-16-2018, 10:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnoble View Post
I was referring to long term engine reliability. Iím curious which tune would let your engine last a longer time. Or if both arenít good for engine in the first place.
Ah gotcha. In that case, tuning your car in general can effect the long term reliability of the engine. Also depends on how youíre driving the car with the tune, which Iím assuming itís going to be a little harder then driving stock. I think the exception is going to be how well you maintain the car while tuned and not pushing it past itís limits of what it was made to put out. I believe Mike from powerhouse said he would recommend his customers to go no more then 450whp.

Donít quote me on this but I think youíll need to change your spark plugs more often when running a tune and driving it harder (not significantly more, but more often then stock obv)
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      10-16-2018, 11:03 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnoble View Post
I was referring to long term engine reliability. I’m curious which tune would let your engine last a longer time. Or if both aren’t good for engine in the first place.
Any power adder will negatively affect long term engine reliability. The motor and ancillary systems weren't designed and tested for the additional power and heat. With that said, the M2 has basically the same motor and ancillary systems as the M235 plus a factory tune pushing power to wheels up around 20-30whp and 30-40wtq over the M235. So basically a JB+/Dinantronics Sport addition in overall power, but with OEM like driveability. We have seen on the dyno (and track) that the M2 can heat soak quickly in warmer 80+ degree temps and pulls boost and timing in response. That to me is indication that BMW is playing it very safe with it's factory modded N55 in the M2 to preserve long term reliability.

You can typically assume that a motor's longevity won't be dramatically impacted assuming you keep the additional power to within 20% over stock power ratings. Anything beyond that and you're likely in uncharted territory in terms of what the engineers truly tested for. On an M235, that would mean around 370whp/400wtq or essentially "Stage 2" mods (flash tune/JB4 with a downpipe).

With all that said, the M235 comes with some pretty robust hardware for stock. The 8AT is the same one used in BMWs own M235R race cars. The 6MT is the same one used in the 1M and the only difference between it and the 6MT used in the M2/M3/M4 is a stronger 1-2/2-3 syncro. The forged connecting rods and bearings are the same one used in the M2/M3/M4 and the forged crank is the same used in the M2.

If you care about long term reliability, I wound't push this motor past a tune and downpipe. The N55 short block is quite robust, but other systems will be pushed quite a bit harder (cooling, spark, injectors, fuel pumps, various gaskets). Plus, the deeper you go with power, the closer you put the DME into the danger zone as it might not be able to respond to something like super knock which could result in a spun rod bearing (this has happened on modded N55s and N54s).
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      10-16-2018, 11:18 AM   #39
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XutvJet,

I have some noobie questions for you if you don't mind:
1. How much hp is 370whp? (same for torque)
2. What does DME stand for?

Mod wise I'm probably going for an upgraded DP, CP, FMIC, and tune (nothing crazy just for some added DD fun). Would this put me into the "uncharted territory"? Thanks in advance!
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      10-16-2018, 12:32 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyletrann View Post
XutvJet,

I have some noobie questions for you if you don't mind:
1. How much hp is 370whp? (same for torque)
2. What does DME stand for?

Mod wise I'm probably going for an upgraded DP, CP, FMIC, and tune (nothing crazy just for some added DD fun). Would this put me into the "uncharted territory"? Thanks in advance!

The M235 is rated by BMW at 320hp/330tq at the flywheel, but Dynojet numbers of stock M235s show the cars making between 300-310 wheel hp (whp) and 320-330wtq (wtq) depending on transmission (6MT make the higher numbers). Assuming ~15% drivetrain loss, a stock M235 actually makes around 365hp/390tq at the flywheel or well above what BMW claims.

370whp equates to around 435hp at the flywheel. You simply take the whp number and divide by .85.

DME is BMW's name for the engine computer.

A catted DP and conservative tune will put you in the 360-370whp and 380-400wtq range. The CP and FMIC do not add any power.

Between 1999 and 2005, I extensively modified a 1996 Maxima SE 5MT. With tuned ECU and intake and exhaust bolt-ons, I took that car from running lower 15s@92mph in the 1/4 mile to lower 14s at 100mph which is in line with what your current gen Maxima runs. A stock M235, especially an 8AT version, will make your Maxima feel quite weak and you'll realize just how terrible CVTs are no matter that wizardy they employee to make it feel sporty (I've rented many current gen Maximas). My point is, once you get a M235, drive it stock for a while and perhaps add the MP exhaust to get some some sexy exhaust noises (makes the car sound faster and tricks the mind). A stock M235 8AT is a legit upper 12 second car STOCK. To you, it will feel monumentally faster, especially above 60mph.

I've driven and owned some fast cars over the decades, but my M235 6MT with just the Dinantronics Sport impresses me quite a lot, especially all the torque it makes. Although I'll add more power in the future, it is rather silly as the car is plenty fast for the street as it is. Traction in 1st is hard to come by and I can spin them from a 30-40mph punch in 2nd and sometimes in 3rd as well. In sub 45 degree temps, traction is useless in 1st and portions of 2nd at full throttle. Adding more power will only complicate the traction issues and my car is on MPSS tires and has a mechanical LSD. Without the LSD, traction was FAR worse.
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      10-16-2018, 01:01 PM   #41
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Thanks for the knowledge XutvJet!

The fastest thing I've driven is my friends B8.5 S4, much quicker then my current Maxima. I am beyond excited to ditch the CVT from Nissan and switch to the M235i 1-2yrs from now. And better yet going from FWD to RWD.

I'll keep in mind the conservative numbers 360-370whp and 380-400wtq range. I'm sure if I'm craving more then the already quick stock performance, the conservatives numbers will be plentiful for DD. Can't explain how excited and ready I am for the switch to the M235i
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      10-16-2018, 01:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyletrann View Post
Thanks for the knowledge XutvJet!

The fastest thing I've driven is my friends B8.5 S4, much quicker then my current Maxima. I am beyond excited to ditch the CVT from Nissan and switch to the M235i 1-2yrs from now. And better yet going from FWD to RWD.

I'll keep in mind the conservative numbers 360-370whp and 380-400wtq range. I'm sure if I'm craving more then the already quick stock performance, the conservatives numbers will be plentiful for DD. Can't explain how excited and ready I am for the switch to the M235i
RWD will make a huge difference. FWD is a waste of time. Been there, did that with numerous Japanese cars. I feel about the same with AWD for performance cars too. I had a modded 2012 WRX for 4 years and my wife has owned numerous Subaru wagons. AWD is great for family haulers but not in a car like a 2 series, IMO.
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      10-16-2018, 06:25 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Any power adder will negatively affect long term engine reliability. The motor and ancillary systems weren't designed and tested for the additional power and heat. With that said, the M2 has basically the same motor and ancillary systems as the M235 plus a factory tune pushing power to wheels up around 20-30whp and 30-40wtq over the M235. So basically a JB+/Dinantronics Sport addition in overall power, but with OEM like driveability. We have seen on the dyno (and track) that the M2 can heat soak quickly in warmer 80+ degree temps and pulls boost and timing in response. That to me is indication that BMW is playing it very safe with it's factory modded N55 in the M2 to preserve long term reliability.

You can typically assume that a motor's longevity won't be dramatically impacted assuming you keep the additional power to within 20% over stock power ratings. Anything beyond that and you're likely in uncharted territory in terms of what the engineers truly tested for. On an M235, that would mean around 370whp/400wtq or essentially "Stage 2" mods (flash tune/JB4 with a downpipe).

With all that said, the M235 comes with some pretty robust hardware for stock. The 8AT is the same one used in BMWs own M235R race cars. The 6MT is the same one used in the 1M and the only difference between it and the 6MT used in the M2/M3/M4 is a stronger 1-2/2-3 syncro. The forged connecting rods and bearings are the same one used in the M2/M3/M4 and the forged crank is the same used in the M2.

If you care about long term reliability, I wound't push this motor past a tune and downpipe. The N55 short block is quite robust, but other systems will be pushed quite a bit harder (cooling, spark, injectors, fuel pumps, various gaskets). Plus, the deeper you go with power, the closer you put the DME into the danger zone as it might not be able to respond to something like super knock which could result in a spun rod bearing (this has happened on modded N55s and N54s).
I was thinking of just doing a tune and intake performance wise. And I have a 230 not m240, wish I had one though. I'm guessing as long as I keep up on the maintenance I should be fine? And what would need to be replaced sooner than if it was stock?
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