[mperrotti34]

I am having some wear issues with the tires on my car. I hope maybe someone on here might have some insights. I have a 2014 M235i. I have gone through 4 sets of tires in the last 18 months or so. Im only getting around 10-15k miles out of the rear tires and about 20k on the fronts. I had 3 alignments done in the last year to make sure everything is within spec ranges. I have gone through 2 sets of Bridgestone Potenza AS980s, one set of Michelin PSS, and one set of Michelin AS4s. All the wear is on the inside of the tires. Is anyone else experiencing extreme wear like this? Also what could be causing such extreme wear? I do about 90% highway driving for work. When I have a day off I do go for some spirited drives but I definitely can't say I push it hard like I would want to on a track. Any help would be appreciated!

[overcoil]

are u putting on 40,000 to 50,000 miles in 18-months ?

I may be misreading your statistics but your tire life isn't that much different than mine. Though I tended to get outside shoulder wear on my fronts. I'm running Michelin 4S summer tires now but I'm not driving very much past years or so.

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

are u putting on 40,000 to 50,000 miles in 18-months ?

I may be misreading your statistics but your tire life isn't that much different than mine. Though I tended to get outside shoulder wear on my fronts. I'm running Michelin 4S summer tires now but I'm not driving very much past years or so.

Last year I did about 40k miles. Hopefully I wont be doing nearly that much this year. It was a strange year and with the COVID shutdown I ended up having to travel quite a bit for work because my company cut employees. but like I said I have gone through 4 sets in about 18 months. rears are only lasting like 15k. I know the mileage warranties are usually cut in half for staggered sets but I would have thought that higher end tires that have fairly high mileage warranties would last longer than that.

[delvec03]

exactly why I avoided a square setup. rotations are impossible and they are the only way to extend tire life to something nominal. I agree with the others, sounds pretty normal.

[Heitzer]

What tire pressure are you running? Do you have standard staggered tire sizes on standard wheels?

[cooolone2]

Extreme wear? No... Actually is extreme mileage!

I've ran Portenza's on my other vehicle, same weight, etc., and would be lucky to get 40k. It is a soft compound tire and as such doesn't lend well to wear ratings!

Good Luck

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by Heitzer

What tire pressure are you running? Do you have standard staggered tire sizes on standard wheels?

Pressures are set to factory spec 32 PSI in the front and 38 PSI rear.


So its normal to go through a set of tires every 15k miles with these cars? That just doesn't seem right to me especially when manufacturers are giving these tires tread life warranties of 45-50k miles.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by mperrotti34

Pressures are set to factory spec 32 PSI in the front and 38 PSI rear.


So its normal to go through a set of tires every 15k miles with these cars? That just doesn't seem right to me especially when manufacturers are giving these tires tread life warranties of 45-50k miles.

with a summer compound tire (weekend spirited driving) and the warranties are probably prorated and not applicable to staggered set-ups.

who is doing your alignments ? ( some non-specific independent shops or tire shops can really be clueless particularly when they rely on a HUNTER alignment machine for specs and don't understand the different set-ups in a single model range )
You may want to add a few cold psi to the front tires. Chk the owners manual. are your front tire the 225/35/18 ? because in the owners manual for high speed over 100mph the recommended front tire pressure could be 35 or 36 psi. 19 inch wheels are 41 psi front on some set-ups.

read the wheels and tire section in your owners manual, if you have the handbook or online.

[designatedposter]

i had michelin as3+ for 22k miles, mostly highway, and replaced with a new wheel and tire set, but it had 3 to 4/32 left, so definitely has a few more thousand miles of life. let's say 25k for that set. more wear on rear, but not significantly, as this is a rwd car.

i have dws06 from continental now, and seems to be wearing better, so i'd probably get 25k-30k from it.

seems you are wearing faster than me, and really shouldnt since you do 90% highway. do you have a sheet from the alignment we can look at? toe settings will eat up tires.

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i had michelin as3+ for 22k miles, mostly highway, and replaced with a new wheel and tire set, but it had 3 to 4/32 left, so definitely has a few more thousand miles of life. let's say 25k for that set. more wear on rear, but not significantly, as this is a rwd car.

i have dws06 from continental now, and seems to be wearing better, so i'd probably get 25k-30k from it.

seems you are wearing faster than me, and really shouldnt since you do 90% highway. do you have a sheet from the alignment we can look at? toe settings will eat up tires.

I do have an alignment sheet. I will post that in just a bit. My mechanic is a close family friend who specializes in alignments.

Because of my work travel and my schedule I rarely get to go on "spirited" drives anymore. I use that term somewhat loosely. Im not getting anywhere near 100MPH in the car. Just a couple quick pulls here and there and some slightly more aggressive than normal cornering. Believe me its nothing extreme. I will look through the manual again and see if I can find anything else on pressures.

[mperrotti34]

Here is the alignment sheet from the last alignment I had done 2 weeks ago.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by mperrotti34

I do have an alignment sheet. I will post that in just a bit. My mechanic is a close family friend who specializes in alignments.

Because of my work travel and my schedule I rarely get to go on "spirited" drives anymore. I use that term somewhat loosely. Im not getting anywhere near 100MPH in the car. Just a couple quick pulls here and there and some slightly more aggressive than normal cornering. Believe me its nothing extreme. I will look through the manual again and see if I can find anything else on pressures.

I'm assuming that the car is ballasted to BMW spec when the alignment is done? Otherwise the measurements will be inaccurate, especially the camber, which will be under reading.

[overcoil]

why does the alignment sheet say M135 F20 ? is that not an issue

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

why does the alignment sheet say M135 F20 ? is that not an issue

good catch. I actually didnt realize that. I was focusing too much on the measurements themselves. Does anyone know if the alignment specs are the same or different for the M235i as compared to the 135?

[aerobod]

Here are the alignment specs and test and ballast procedures for a 2014 RWD M235i (from a VIN that was randomly selected).

It is best to use a BMW specialist to do the alignment if the person who is doing it is not familiar with the intricacies of BMW alignments.

[aerobod]

Here are the alignment specs, translated from degrees and minutes to decimal degrees. Minimum and maximum values shown -

front total toe-in: 0.17 to 0.30
front toe difference (left to right): 0.20
front camber: -0.47 to -1.30 (0.50 max difference left to right)
front wheel offset: 0.00 to 0.25
castor angle: 0.50 max difference left to right
rear total toe-in: 0.23 to 0.37
rear camber: -1.67 to -1.83
driving axis/thrust angle: 0.00 to 0.20

In the original alignment, the lack of rear toe-in and significant camber difference from left to right on the rear would be causing inner tread wear, especially on the left rear tyre. The new alignment is not valid though if the car wasn't aligned with the correct ballast and other test conditions met.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Here are the alignment specs and test and ballast procedures for a 2014 RWD M235i (from a VIN that was randomly selected).

It is best to use a BMW specialist to do the alignment if the person who is doing it is not familiar with the intricacies of BMW alignments.

Do you interpret the statement "Vehicle with complete equipment for normal operation with: 2 x 68 kg on front seats" to mean that 1 x 68 kg is to be placed on each front seat or 2 x 68 kg is to be placed on each front seat?

With my M240i, I've had a BMW race shop do my initial alignment and an all-purpose race shop check the alignment. I've got no idea if the first shop followed the loading instructions. I know the second shop didn't, because I was standing there while they checked it.

Considering that I've got coilovers, camber plates, and a street/track alignment, how important do you think it is that I use a BMW-specific shop that follows the loading instructions – not necessary, a very good idea, or a requirement?

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Here are the alignment specs, translated from degrees and minutes to decimal degrees. Minimum and maximum values shown -

front total toe-in: 0.17 to 0.30
front toe difference (left to right): 0.20
front camber: -0.47 to -1.30 (0.50 max difference left to right)
front wheel offset: 0.00 to 0.25
castor angle: 0.50 max difference left to right
rear total toe-in: 0.23 to 0.37
rear camber: -1.67 to -1.83
driving axis/thrust angle: 0.00 to 0.20

In the original alignment, the lack of rear toe-in and significant camber difference from left to right on the rear would be causing inner tread wear, especially on the left rear tyre. The new alignment is not valid though if the car wasn't aligned with the correct ballast and other test conditions met.

So Assuming everything was done correctly as far as test conditions, The current alignments seems to be at minimum .2 off (front toe), .13 off (rear toe), and .67 off (rear camber)?

Also you are correct in saying that the rear left was the most heavily worn with the original alignment shown. What is strange to me is that when I had those tires replaced (with the orgiginal PSS tires that came off the car not long after I got it), the right rear has worn significantly more than the left and there is a pretty clear change in camber wear showing on the tire.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Do you interpret the statement "Vehicle with complete equipment for normal operation with: 2 x 68 kg on front seats" to mean that 1 x 68 kg is to be placed on each front seat or 2 x 68 kg is to be placed on each front seat?

With my M240i, I've had a BMW race shop do my initial alignment and an all-purpose race shop check the alignment. I've got no idea if the first shop followed the loading instructions. I know the second shop didn't, because I was standing there while they checked it.

Considering that I've got coilovers, camber plates, and a street/track alignment, how important do you think it is that I use a BMW-specific shop that follows the loading instructions – not necessary, a very good idea, or a requirement?

It is 68kg on each front seat. This has actually been the case for the just over 20 years I've owned BMWs. The only variation in the cars I've had has been with the 2 seaters, due to no rear seat, although I've never looked at the spec on the SUVs.

For a custom suspension setup, I wouldn't worry about loading, as it is beyond the BMW specs anyway, I would just be monitoring tyre wear for overall evenness. In my Caterham setup I do use just ballast in just the drivers seat to reflect my weight for suspension adjustment, as the car is so light the ballast has a significant affect on getting a perfect corner weighted suspension setup.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by mperrotti34

So Assuming everything was done correctly as far as test conditions, The current alignments seems to be at minimum .2 off (front toe), .13 off (rear toe), and .67 off (rear camber)?

Also you are correct in saying that the rear left was the most heavily worn with the original alignment shown. What is strange to me is that when I had those tires replaced (with the orgiginal PSS tires that came off the car not long after I got it), the right rear has worn significantly more than the left and there is a pretty clear change in camber wear showing on the tire.

The rear is the furthest from spec. I'm wondering if you have pothole or other suspension damage, especially as the rear right was so far out from spec before adjustment? If the car has ever been transported or towed in a non-approved BMW manner (approved manner is using "J" hooks in the jacking points), the suspension is easily bent if tie down straps are wrapped around it.

I would assume that the alignment needs to be done from scratch, with attention paid to the clamping mechanism used for the sensors (there is a note on that in the PDFs I posted earlier) as you had quite a bit of front camber change from initial to final measurement, but there is no adjustment of front camber on the F22, it is only influenced a small amount by toe adjustment.

I'm also wondering why your friend's adjustment for the rear camber is so far out from any modern BMW car I have seen, even the F20 rear should be around -1.5 degrees in it's normal range.

[mperrotti34]

Originally Posted by aerobod

The rear is the furthest from spec. I'm wondering if you have pothole or other suspension damage, especially as the rear right was so far out from spec before adjustment? If the car has ever been transported or towed in a non-approved BMW manner (approved manner is using "J" hooks in the jacking points), the suspension is easily bent if tie down straps are wrapped around it.

I would assume that the alignment needs to be done from scratch, with attention paid to the clamping mechanism used for the sensors (there is a note on that in the PDFs I posted earlier) as you had quite a bit of front camber change from initial to final measurement, but there is no adjustment of front camber on the F22, it is only influenced a small amount by toe adjustment.

I'm also wondering why your friend's adjustment for the rear camber is so far out from any modern BMW car I have seen, even the F20 rear should be around -1.5 degrees in it's normal range.

Ill be honest, I have no idea. my family has known him for so long and I really trust him so I didnt bother to ask. I will definitely be giving him a call to find out though.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by mperrotti34

Ill be honest, I have no idea. my family has known him for so long and I really trust him so I didnt bother to ask. I will definitely be giving him a call to find out though.

I would check the lower suspension arms on the rear for bends, he may have found he could only get a low camber on the right side, so set the left to match. This would be consistent with bent link(s) on the suspension, especially on the right. Many BMWs and other European cars with multi-link suspensions that have long arms have been damaged by towing companies that tie down the car incorrectly when moving it on a flat bed, so if you have any knowledge of the car ever being towed, check the suspension carefully. Fortunately it isn't too expensive to repair, if this is the problem.