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      11-23-2022, 04:03 AM   #859
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Originally Posted by chad86tsi View Post
Still better than the Tesla record of putting product in the hands of paying customers on time. The model s refresh was a fucking disaster, only rivaled by the model x. Then there is the vapor ware cybertruck, semi, and roadster. Itís almost a case study in fraud.
I loved it when Elon took the cannonball to show the windows were shatter-proof, then the window... shattered.
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      11-23-2022, 04:05 AM   #860
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
GM Pushes Back North America Production Plan Of 400,000 EVs To 2024

https://insideevs.com/news/618889/gm...0-evs-to-2024/



Mary stated early this year GM would overtake Tesla by 2025 as the top US-based seller of electric vehicles. Not happening.
I smell another bailout coming... gotta keep the Union happy.

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      11-23-2022, 05:51 AM   #861
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But gm promises an all ev lineup in 2035? How is that going backwards?

Are you talking about when they first introduced the volt? Or bolt or whatever that old model was called? Yeah their technology wasnít up to par back then it only made sense to back out of something they know nothing about.

When Tesla came on board everyone laughed at them. Even Ford. And now look at them, theyíre playing catch up to Tesla.

Youíre right it doesnít fit everyoneís lifestyle, I wasnít saying it did.

But as time moves foward we adapt. Thatís how our species work. We adapt.
Seriously, you have a devoid knowledge of EV history. Cos270 is talking about GM's EV1. It was an attempt to placate CARB's zero-emission mandate of 1990; yes 33 years ago. It was a compact 2-seat Battery-Electic that used lead acid wet-cells. It was only leased to customers in California and was an engineering exercise to judge customer acceptance of EV. GM shelved the EV1 because despite California's desire to power automobiles by the Sun God Helios, there was no market for the EV1. CARB eventually bagged its zero emissions mandates and repackaged the requirements.

Both generations of the GM Volt are actually a highly sophisticated hybrid EV, far more complex in drivetrain design and engineering than a Tesla. Tesla is just a big-ass battery EV. I doubt a Tesla engineer could conceive of the Voltec drive system and complex planetary gear set it uses, let alone manufacture it.

The Bolt beat the Model 3 to market and actually sold for $35K. Elon is good at hype. And BTW Tesla's EV drive system initially was not home grown.
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      11-23-2022, 06:49 AM   #862
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
But gm promises an all ev lineup in 2035? How is that going backwards?

Are you talking about when they first introduced the volt? Or bolt or whatever that old model was called? Yeah their technology wasn’t up to par back then it only made sense to back out of something they know nothing about.

When Tesla came on board everyone laughed at them. Even Ford. And now look at them, they’re playing catch up to Tesla.

You’re right it doesn’t fit everyone’s lifestyle, I wasn’t saying it did.

But as time moves foward we adapt. That’s how our species work. We adapt.
Seriously, you have a devoid knowledge of EV history. Cos270 is talking about GM's EV1. It was an attempt to placate CARB's zero-emission mandate of 1990; yes 33 years ago. It was a compact 2-seat Battery-Electic that used lead acid wet-cells. It was only leased to customers in California and was an engineering exercise to judge customer acceptance of EV. GM shelved the EV1 because despite California's desire to power automobiles by the Sun God Helios, there was no market for the EV1. CARB eventually bagged its zero emissions mandates and repackaged the requirements.

Both generations of the GM Volt are actually a highly sophisticated hybrid EV, far more complex in drivetrain design and engineering than a Tesla. Tesla is just a big-ass battery EV. I doubt a Tesla engineer could conceive of the Voltec drive system and complex planetary gear set it uses, let alone manufacture it.

The Bolt beat the Model 3 to market and actually sold for $35K. Elon is good at hype. And BTW Tesla's EV drive system initially was not home grown.
You will be answered shortly by the Vette nutswinger. He will tell you how your wrong. Lol. It will be the same spin. Tesla network, other will catch up but they are 10 years behind, no one can change the future this is coming and you can't do anything about it. Can't wait to get my SUPERCAR from Chevy. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a clown. 🤣😂👅💩
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      11-23-2022, 08:15 AM   #863
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Originally Posted by G MONEY View Post
You will be answered shortly by the Vette nutswinger. He will tell you how your wrong. Lol. It will be the same spin. Tesla network, other will catch up but they are 10 years behind, no one can change the future this is coming and you can't do anything about it. Can't wait to get my SUPERCAR from Chevy. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a clown. ��������
He spent his past hundreds of posts saying basically the same thing... hard to believe a grown-ass adult had that much time lurking the forums responding to any even marginally hesitancy on just Tesla, not EV in general, Tesla only.
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      11-23-2022, 09:21 AM   #864
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Originally Posted by G MONEY View Post
You will be answered shortly by the Vette nutswinger. He will tell you how your wrong. Lol. It will be the same spin. Tesla network, other will catch up but they are 10 years behind, no one can change the future this is coming and you can't do anything about it. Can't wait to get my SUPERCAR from Chevy. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a clown. ��������
I think he has me on ignore, you too probably. LOL.

But he knows nothing of the engineering that goes into building either ICE or EV. The Volt was an automotive engineering powerhouse. It is a plug-in EV/Series Hybrid that can switch to a parallel hybrid (in mountain mode - for Gen 1) and a more engine-direct-to-drive-wheels parallel in the Gen 2 Voltec system (highway 70+ MPH). Also, in the 3rd year of Gen 1 GM made the system driver selectable between Series Hybrid or Battery EV to choose when he wanted to use the gas engine based on his use case. GM even developed specialized audio system components to minimize energy consumption. So, making a statement that GM's technology was "not up to par" as compared to Tesla is just laughable to those who understand the technology.

My opinion is the Volt architecture was a decade ahead of its time and really should be the solution for reduction of carbon emissions (if that concerns you). A large conversion of the private automotive fleet to a Voltec architecture has no disruptive impact on either the electrical grid or the petrochemical industry. Further develop the ICE engine to double its combustion efficiency (i.e. reduce the waste heat component) in the Voltec system and the total energy loss/carbon emissions would probably be a near match for charging a BEV on the national electric grid.

Tesla is a just a big ass battery electric with a proprietary charging system that assists in better long-distance EV travel limited to select roads; it does nothing to support the coup de grace of EV proponents... charging at home and not having to go to an icky gas station for 5 minutes (which real people understand not everyone can have a private home charging station). The Tesla in-car tech is neat I guess, if you need a screen to tell you there is a car approaching or next to you rather than just looking out the windows. The self-driving tech is necessary because the in-car tech is so distracting the driver barely pays attention to driving.
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      11-23-2022, 04:46 PM   #865
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
I smell another bailout coming... gotta keep the Union happy.
The serious question is will the market share be there in 2035? Right now EV's makeup only 6% of US new car sales(Tesla owns over 60% of that). Mary has invested GM's entire future on EV's and promises to be all electric by 2035. All these brands that have set hard transition dates and invested 100bills will be in trouble if they are decade off on adoption rate. They could all be left fighting for a small market share of new car buyers. All while Akio Toyoda is sitting laughing selling every new Prius they can sell. I am not against EV's in the slighest, we have a EV and a plugin hybrid in are household. But I get a feeling some of these brands setting hard EV transition dates could end up in trouble. Keep in mind GM is currently making record profits all while selling 90+% ice vehicles(they are just going to abandon that?).
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      11-23-2022, 05:04 PM   #866
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
The serious question is will the market share be there in 2035? Right now EV's makeup only 6% of US new car sales(Tesla owns over 60% of that). Mary has invested GM's entire future on EV's and promises to be all electric by 2035. All these brands that have set hard transition dates and invested 100bills will be in trouble if they are decade off on adoption rate. They could all be left fighting for a small market share of new car buyers. All while Akio Toyoda is sitting laughing selling every new Prius they can sell. I am not against EV's in the slighest, we have a EV and a plugin hybrid in are household. But I get a feeling some of these brands setting hard EV transition dates could end up in trouble. Keep in mind GM is currently making record profits all while selling 90+% ice vehicles(they are just going to abandon that?).

Given that those in power today won't be in power 13 years from now, I don't see how it's wise to assume nothing will change in the next 13 years. betting on tomorrow based on what is true today is foolish given all the unanswered questions and un-invented solutions that are key to getting us there.

Diversification is usually the best long term strategy. This applies to more than just retirement funds.
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      11-23-2022, 06:13 PM   #867
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Given that those in power today won't be in power 13 years from now, I don't see how it's wise to assume nothing will change in the next 13 years. betting on tomorrow based on what is true today is foolish given all the unanswered questions and un-invented solutions that are key to getting us there.

Diversification is usually the best long term strategy. This applies to more than just retirement funds.
And that's the problem, politicos. They change the market by a stoke of a pen. In the real world, the products that the market sells take decades to change. If people really give a shit about the climate, or find EV better fitting their needs, then let them dictate the EV take up rate. The whim of legislation is too tough to plan for.
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      11-23-2022, 07:26 PM   #868
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
The serious question is will the market share be there in 2035? Right now EV's makeup only 6% of US new car sales(Tesla owns over 60% of that). Mary has invested GM's entire future on EV's and promises to be all electric by 2035. All these brands that have set hard transition dates and invested 100bills will be in trouble if they are decade off on adoption rate. They could all be left fighting for a small market share of new car buyers. All while Akio Toyoda is sitting laughing selling every new Prius they can sell. I am not against EV's in the slighest, we have a EV and a plugin hybrid in are household. But I get a feeling some of these brands setting hard EV transition dates could end up in trouble. Keep in mind GM is currently making record profits all while selling 90+% ice vehicles(they are just going to abandon that?).
Industry forecasts call for BEV to make up 50% of new vehicle production in 2031 in North America.
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      11-24-2022, 08:33 AM   #869
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The serious question is will the market share be there in 2035? Right now EV's makeup only 6% of US new car sales(Tesla owns over 60% of that). Mary has invested GM's entire future on EV's and promises to be all electric by 2035. All these brands that have set hard transition dates and invested 100bills will be in trouble if they are decade off on adoption rate. They could all be left fighting for a small market share of new car buyers. All while Akio Toyoda is sitting laughing selling every new Prius they can sell. I am not against EV's in the slighest, we have a EV and a plugin hybrid in are household. But I get a feeling some of these brands setting hard EV transition dates could end up in trouble. Keep in mind GM is currently making record profits all while selling 90+% ice vehicles(they are just going to abandon that?).
After we tax payers bailed GM out, she jacked GM's debt right back up to $100M betting on an all-EV future and autonomous driving pods (Bolts). GM's biggest problem is its quality persona, which at this point is 3-decades old news IMO. If I had the helm, I'd have gone with a Malibu sized Voltec model and an Equinox EV (she's doing that one) to start off. I'm not sure EV pickup trucks are going to sustain the investment; it seems to me EV pickups have limitations for real workday use cases. That's why she gets the Big Bucks.
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      11-24-2022, 09:24 AM   #870
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I'm not sure EV pickup trucks are going to sustain the investment; it seems to me EV pickups have limitations for real workday use cases. That's why she gets the Big Bucks.
Sure some light duty company fleets may convert to EV but the majority will still be mall crawlers like the current gas market. They're likely seeing Ford's success with focusing their efforts on light trucks and wanting their share too.
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      11-24-2022, 10:54 AM   #871
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Of course, the rural areas can't keep trucks on their lots over here either... EVs would fit the more urban duty jobs like the trades, short trips with or without towing. I think a larger issue would be converting that market from a V8 to a silent EV.
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      11-24-2022, 01:58 PM   #872
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
After we tax payers bailed GM out, she jacked GM's debt right back up to $100M betting on an all-EV future and autonomous driving pods (Bolts). GM's biggest problem is its quality persona, which at this point is 3-decades old news IMO. If I had the helm, I'd have gone with a Malibu sized Voltec model and an Equinox EV (she's doing that one) to start off. I'm not sure EV pickup trucks are going to sustain the investment; it seems to me EV pickups have limitations for real workday use cases. That's why she gets the Big Bucks.
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Sure some light duty company fleets may convert to EV but the majority will still be mall crawlers like the current gas market. They're likely seeing Ford's success with focusing their efforts on light trucks and wanting their share too.
Those companies might think twice now. Prices for Silverado EV Work Truck in 3WT and 4WT trim came out last week. Only difference between the trims is pack size. $80k for a work truck.

3WT - $72,905
4WT - $77,905

How exactly does GM plan a on making the 1WT trim at $39k. My guess they make handful of them initially and then raise 1WT trim at least $10k.
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      11-24-2022, 02:04 PM   #873
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Just write it off
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      11-24-2022, 03:32 PM   #874
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Those companies might think twice now. Prices for Silverado EV Work Truck in 3WT and 4WT trim came out last week. Only difference between the trims is pack size. $80k for a work truck.

3WT - $72,905
4WT - $77,905

How exactly does GM plan a on making the 1WT trim at $39k. My guess they make handful of them initially and then raise 1WT trim at least $10k.
That's what Tesla did with their $35K wonder EV (even though they promised it to be under 30K). They made as few as possible to say that they were made. Currently that same model sells for over $48K. Smoke and mirrors.

The future is going to be so great, or so I'm told.
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      11-24-2022, 05:53 PM   #875
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Those companies might think twice now. Prices for Silverado EV Work Truck in 3WT and 4WT trim came out last week. Only difference between the trims is pack size. $80k for a work truck.

3WT - $72,905
4WT - $77,905

How exactly does GM plan a on making the 1WT trim at $39k. My guess they make handful of them initially and then raise 1WT trim at least $10k.
That's what Tesla did with their $35K wonder EV (even though they promised it to be under 30K). They made as few as possible to say that they were made. Currently that same model sells for over $48K. Smoke and mirrors.

The future is going to be so great, or so I'm told.
Didn't you hear? According to BGM-M3COMP things will only get better. Nothing to worry about, move along!
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      11-24-2022, 07:58 PM   #876
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And the EV hummer sold out instantly. And the ford lightning sold out instantly. 100k EV trucks.

Every tesla model went up in price, yet the model Y is the BEST SELLING EV to date.

Yup things are getting better. People are spending more on something others think have no chance of existing in today's world.

Holy fuck i love killing all these arguments.

Car makers will catch up i'm sure. Give it time. Our 2030+ lifestyle with cars will be great!
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      11-24-2022, 08:18 PM   #877
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And the EV hummer sold out instantly. And the ford lightning sold out instantly. 100k EV trucks.

Every tesla model went up in price, yet the model Y is the BEST SELLING EV to date.

Yup things are getting better. People are spending more on something others think have no chance of existing in today's world.

Holy fuck i love killing all these arguments.

Car makers will catch up i'm sure. Give it time. Our 2030+ lifestyle with cars will be great!
There is no argument because we all agree. EV's are rising in price despite promises the will only get cheaper. Seems you agree with all of us on that.

I remember when gas went up in price, people still lined up at the gas stations and bought it. The gas didn't get any better or offer anything new, it just cost more.
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      11-24-2022, 08:34 PM   #878
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
And the EV hummer sold out instantly. And the ford lightning sold out instantly. 100k EV trucks.

Every tesla model went up in price, yet the model Y is the BEST SELLING EV to date.

Yup things are getting better. People are spending more on something others think have no chance of existing in today's world.

Holy fuck i love killing all these arguments.

Car makers will catch up i'm sure. Give it time. Our 2030+ lifestyle with cars will be great!
Yawn X2
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      11-25-2022, 08:34 AM   #879
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There is no argument because we all agree. EV's are rising in price despite promises the will only get cheaper. Seems you agree with all of us on that.

I remember when gas went up in price, people still lined up at the gas stations and bought it. The gas didn't get any better or offer anything new, it just cost more.
And when the magic solid-state 500-mile/5 min. charge battery arrives the kWh price curve starts all over again. Maybe the wheel bearings will get less expensive...
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      11-25-2022, 08:37 AM   #880
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Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP View Post
And the EV hummer sold out instantly. And the ford lightning sold out instantly. 100k EV trucks.

Every tesla model went up in price, yet the model Y is the BEST SELLING EV to date.

Yup things are getting better. People are spending more on something others think have no chance of existing in today's world.

Holy fuck i love killing all these arguments.

Car makers will catch up i'm sure. Give it time. Our 2030+ lifestyle with cars will be great!
And so did the Ford Bronco...

Gasoline internal combustion engine with a Manual transmission.
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