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      02-01-2023, 12:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas1836 View Post
Was George Orwell paranoid? He sure has been accurate.
He sure has been inaccurate as well.
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      02-01-2023, 01:16 PM   #24
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My kids will be in their 60's, they won't care.

Their kids will be in their 30s, they won't know the difference.

Their kids will be little babies and will only know teleportation to their jobs on Mars.
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      02-01-2023, 03:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
But the accurate parts.... SUCK.
True
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      02-01-2023, 03:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Somebody needs to buy you a dictionary so you can look up the word capitalism. What you just described in your not too unrealistic but definitely exaggerated story is unfettered Socialism. How you can get these two definitions so mixed up with today’s research tools is beyond me. I’m going to blame the school system you attended and perhaps your parents. Either way it can easily be corrected with a little unbiased research. Good luck and let me know if you need help.
Oh yea? Plz explain how because it's clear your the one who's confused. Just becaue I said that there would.br certain laws, doesn't make it socialism. It capitalism gets too much power they will have the ability to just make up new laws as well.
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      02-01-2023, 03:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by DavesZupra4 View Post
Oh yea? Plz explain how because it's clear your the one who's confused. Just becaue I said that there would.br certain laws, doesn't make it socialism. It capitalism gets too much power they will have the ability to just make up new laws as well.
Capitalists don’t make laws. They adapt to laws. Capitalism is a type of business. Socialism is a type of government.
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      02-01-2023, 03:55 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Those aren't examples of actual socialism. It's also not a proper noun so you don't have to capitalize it. You just suggested for someone to go look up the definition of a word they were using improperly, but you won't even do the same. It's pretty amusing. There are some very good political science videos / courses / podcasts on YouTube and other platforms that can help clarify.



Honestly, this whole thread should just be deleted since it obviously violates forum rules.
No it shouldn't. Bmw is NOW CHARGING A MONTHYL OR YEARLY FEE FOR HEATED SEATS AND OTHER STUFF FOR EXAMPLE, BMWs greed inspired me to just take what they did and stretch similar actions into the future. Remember when they wanted to charge for Apple car play when everyone else had it free? This time the people won, but seeing kids today im not so optimistic sometimes that they'd push back against BS greed. I'm not saying greed won't exist, but BS greed is a different level like charging $1000 for car play. And then they have the audacity to tel me that that's "socialism"? How the fuk is out of control capitalism that also has powers to imprison peolle socialism? They keep saying look up the definition and we'll I did and I already knew what it meant. Its about the communuty owning the means of production. I NEVER mentioned that. In my original post it was clearly about private corporations that have so much power they can charge money for everything and literally imprison you, plus my point was about how companies just want to monetize everything these days. It wasn't about what economic system I prefer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Capitalists don’t make laws. They adapt to laws. Capitalism is a type of business. Socialism is a type of government.
In theory no, in practice it's called lobbying and having politicians in your pockets.

You don't think capitalists put people in prison? Look up the US private prison "industry" that literally some judges own shares in either through themselves or their wives/family and so many others that benefit from people being imprisoned for as long as possible.

They even send kids to for profit jails.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/kid...llion-damages/

Who do you think pushed for these private prisons? Capitalists.

It's not a stretch to say in the future they'd just have politicians so well controlled that they'd tell them to make certain laws.

Anyway I'm not even communist or socialist. Idk why people think that. You guys are misunderstanding my points. I was just taking the recent bmw apple car play charging fiasco along with the monthly or yearly heated seat subscription that's already in the car but deactivated until you subscribe, and stretching it to the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It is neither... it is a description of authoritarian dystopia.
Authoritarian dystopia where capitalism is the economy that was exactly what I had in mind. They think just because I mentioned some laws that it's "socialism" lol. They ignored all the parts where I mentioned private companies who have more power than ever in the future.

This is the BEST video on what modern socialism is. Socialism today doesn't even do away with capitalism. It's more about improving the lives of everyone rich or poor. It's not the typical "gubbament does stuffz". Ur confusing social programs with socialism. Plz watch this

Last edited by DavesZupra4; 02-01-2023 at 04:18 PM..
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      02-01-2023, 04:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavesZupra4 View Post
No it shouldn't. Bmw is NOW CHARGING A MONTHYL OR YEARLY FEE FOR HEATED SEATS AND OTHER STUFF FOR EXAMPLE, BMWs greed inspired me to just take what they did and stretch similar actions into the future. Remember when they wanted to charge for Apple car play when everyone else had it free? This time the people won, but seeing kids today im not so optimistic sometimes that they'd push back against BS greed. I'm not saying greed won't exist, but BS greed is a different level like charging $1000 for car play. And then they have the audacity to tel me that that's "socialism"? How the fuk is out of control capitalism that also has powers to imprison peolle socialism? They keep saying look up the definition and we'll I did and I already knew what it meant. Its about the communuty owning the means of production. I NEVER mentioned that. In my original post it was clearly about private corporations that have so much power they can charge money for everything and literally imprison you, plus my point was about how companies just want to monetize everything these days. It wasn't about what economic system I prefer.



In theory no, in practice it's called lobbying and having politicians in your pockets.

You don't think capitalists put people in prison? Look up the US private prison "industry" that literally some judges own shares in either through themselves or their wives/family and so many others that benefit from people being imprisoned for as long as possible.

They even send kids to for profit jails.

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/kid...llion-damages/

Who do you think pushed for these private prisons? Capitalists.

It's not a stretch to say in the future they'd just have politicians so well controlled that they'd tell them to make certain laws.

Anyway I'm not even communist or socialist. Idk why people think that. You guys are misunderstanding my points. I was just taking the recent bmw apple car play charging fiasco along with the monthly or yearly heated seat subscription that's already in the car but deactivated until you subscribe, and stretching it to the future.
Im done. You speak gibberish and just make stuff up. Lol. To you 1+1=fish
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      02-01-2023, 04:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Im done. You speak gibberish and just make stuff up. Lol. To you 1+1=fish
I'm still waiting to hear what part is "gibberish"?
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      02-01-2023, 06:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldgixxer View Post
He sure has been inaccurate as well.
You didn't answer the question
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      02-01-2023, 06:38 PM   #32
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This is more of a baiting rant than a discussion. I think there are interesting questions related to all of this that could have been asked.
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      02-01-2023, 07:15 PM   #33
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This is more of a baiting rant than a discussion. I think there are interesting questions related to all of this that could have been asked.
The only thing I said the end is "let's hope unfettered capitalism" isn't our future.

Did I Say anything wrong though? I specially wanted to show how everything might be behind a monthly pay wall in the future wkth no possibility of opting out and a strong possibility companies will pupeteer politicians even more to the point that corporations essentially write laws directly for politicians.

I seem to have rusted feathers. I wasn't even trying to debate or argue economic systems. I just wanted to show that potentjally everything will be behind a pay wall in the future if people tolerate it today
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      02-02-2023, 02:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas1836 View Post
You didn't answer the question
Was Orwell paranoid? It's been 30+ yrs since I read 1984. He may have been,he may have not been. Answered.
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      02-02-2023, 06:09 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
OP, if I may summarize your thread, please tell me if I have it correct.

Unfettered capitalist corporations are going to pay off elected politicians to write law that allow auto manufacturers to place options like heated seats behind paywalls so customers must pay a monthly fee to keep their ass warm.

There will be no auto upholstery shops in the year 2080.

You think you wear rusty feathers.

The "new" socialism will prevent this atrocity, and George Orwell was a paranoid capitalistic idiot.

Did I capture all that correctly?
What is the definition of "new" socialism?
What defines a "paranoid capitalistic idiot"?
Thanks
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      02-02-2023, 09:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
OP, if I may summarize your thread, please tell me if I have it correct.

Unfettered capitalist corporations are going to pay off elected politicians to write law that allow auto manufacturers to place options like heated seats behind paywalls so customers must pay a monthly fee to keep their ass warm.

There will be no auto upholstery shops in the year 2080.

You think you wear rusty feathers.

The "new" socialism will prevent this atrocity, and George Orwell was a paranoid capitalistic idiot.

[Edit 7:24 AM] I left one out...

Capitalists like to pay taxes.

Did I capture all that correctly?


Trouble maker

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      02-05-2023, 09:24 AM   #37
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You cannot mine enough materials to make all cars electric. Not to mention the extreme environmental damage attempting to do so would cause.
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      02-05-2023, 12:45 PM   #38
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You cannot mine enough materials to make all cars electric. Not to mention the extreme environmental damage attempting to do so would cause.
Um…….. they don’t believe you. That’s a fact. Now in my opinion, they also don’t care. But that’s just my opinion.
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      02-05-2023, 02:13 PM   #39
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The thing with capitalism is that you have to take risks. Using the heated seats for example. Let's start with the fact that they cost $350 as an option on the X5. BMW is charging $18 a month or $300 for 3 years for the subscription. So, if I am only going to own the car for 3 years I save money. If I'm going to own the car longer, I can pay them $415 for unlimited access. In that case it costs me more. The risk BMW takes is they have to put heated seats in every single X5. Including the ones going to warmer climates. BMW also takes the risk someone hacks the system to get the heated seats for free, since it is all software as to whether they work or not. This will have more of an impact on used cars than new.

Only time will tell if BMW is successful in these subscriptions. They very well could lose a lot of money. Or they may make out like bandits. My guess is something in between.
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      02-05-2023, 02:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton250 View Post
Somebody needs to buy you a dictionary so you can look up the word capitalism. What you just described in your not too unrealistic but definitely exaggerated story is unfettered Socialism. How you can get these two definitions so mixed up with today’s research tools is beyond me. I’m going to blame the school system you attended and perhaps your parents. Either way it can easily be corrected with a little unbiased research. Good luck and let me know if you need help.
Keep in mind why OEM's are pushing so hard to move to EV's; it is about the dream of monthly re-occuring revenue. It is no secret that the auto industry is 'jealous' of industries like cell phones which get re-occurring revenue via subscriptions and app sales. That is why EV cars are going to be essentially 'cell phone on wheels', which will charge monthly subscriptions to use basic items (i.e. heated seats, bluetooth, etc) and charging for software downloads to add new features. This is the panacea for auto manufacturers and that is why Wall Street analysts are pushing them to be more like Tesla and Verizon in terms of revenue generation. Now, us enthusiasts hate this model, but the fact is, it is being targeted to the younger generation, who are very comfortable with paying huge monthly subscription fees for basic items. It is coming sooner than you think....
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      02-05-2023, 02:34 PM   #41
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You cannot mine enough materials to make all cars electric. Not to mention the extreme environmental damage attempting to do so would cause.
This is a statement without any evidence to support it. It's also false. However, I really don't care to get involved past this post. Just letting you know that it's actually not true. I'm sure you and the General Automotive cognoscenti will dig up links (see what I did ) from questionable or biased sources to support this assertion, though. I'm not necessarily pro-EV and I'm not saying it won't cause some environmental damage. I'm just saying that you're wrong.
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      02-05-2023, 02:41 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by M5VanHalen View Post
Keep in mind why OEM's are pushing so hard to move to EV's; it is about the dream of monthly re-occuring revenue. It is no secret that the auto industry is 'jealous' of industries like cell phones which get re-occurring revenue via subscriptions and app sales. That is why EV cars are going to be essentially 'cell phone on wheels', which will charge monthly subscriptions to use basic items (i.e. heated seats, bluetooth, etc) and charging for software downloads to add new features. This is the panacea for auto manufacturers and that is why Wall Street analysts are pushing them to be more like Tesla and Verizon in terms of revenue generation. Now, us enthusiasts hate this model, but the fact is, it is being targeted to the younger generation, who are very comfortable with paying huge monthly subscription fees for basic items. It is coming sooner than you think....
I agree OEMs want the monthly revenue. I just don't think it's tied to EVs. There's not much special about EVs that makes them more suitable for this. I work in electronics and this is just a consequence of the ongoing integration and easy availability of the necessary platforms to regular automakers. Maybe they took some inspiration from Tesla.

BMW and everyone else is going to put this shit into cars gradually and it won't matter if it's an ICEV or EV. You want heated seats? You want driving assists? You want more power (think MPPK over the air)?
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      02-05-2023, 02:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5VanHalen View Post
Keep in mind why OEM's are pushing so hard to move to EV's; it is about the dream of monthly re-occuring revenue. It is no secret that the auto industry is 'jealous' of industries like cell phones which get re-occurring revenue via subscriptions and app sales. That is why EV cars are going to be essentially 'cell phone on wheels', which will charge monthly subscriptions to use basic items (i.e. heated seats, bluetooth, etc) and charging for software downloads to add new features. This is the panacea for auto manufacturers and that is why Wall Street analysts are pushing them to be more like Tesla and Verizon in terms of revenue generation. Now, us enthusiasts hate this model, but the fact is, it is being targeted to the younger generation, who are very comfortable with paying huge monthly subscription fees for basic items. It is coming sooner than you think....
I hope you’re wrong brother. Sounds like a scary world to me.
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
This is a statement without any evidence to support it. It's also false. However, I really don't care to get involved past this post. Just letting you know that it's actually not true. I'm sure you and the General Automotive cognoscenti will dig up links (see what I did ) from questionable or biased sources to support this assertion, though. I'm not necessarily pro-EV and I'm not saying it won't cause some environmental damage. I'm just saying that you're wrong.

You’re very well may be right. Maybe there are plenty of minerals and materials to make EVs for hundreds of years. I don’t know dude. I know there’s plenty of fossil fuels to run gas powered cars for hundreds of years. That’s a fact.
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      02-05-2023, 08:09 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by TR930
You cannot mine enough materials to make all cars electric. Not to mention the extreme environmental damage attempting to do so would cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
This is a statement without any evidence to support it. It's also false. However, I really don't care to get involved past this post. Just letting you know that it's actually not true. I'm sure you and the General Automotive cognoscenti will dig up links (see what I did ) from questionable or biased sources to support this assertion, though. I'm not necessarily pro-EV and I'm not saying it won't cause some environmental damage. I'm just saying that you're wrong.
Well, from the WEF, who wants us all to drive EVs and eat mealworms and crickets, Their research:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/...ium-resources/
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