[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by msendit

Oh, and I also had someone with a GT4 notice my box of spares at the track, and mention his car came with pagid yellows stock. As HP Autosport mentioned, maybe confused about another pagid pad.

Lots of German vehicles came with Pagid pads, but they are of the OE variety. Not sure which vehicles had track pads from the factory.

[CP911]

@ msendit - thanks for chiming in. I got the Pagid RSL29 installed today, and cold braking was just fine. The very first few brake applications from dead cold felt a little weak, but then as soon as they got some heat into them, I felt like they stopped very well in highway traffic from that point forward. I actually feel like they have more initial bite than the OEM pads, despite your experiences to the contrary. They are very grabby initially, but then easy to modulate and smooth on the release.

Confused about your statements regarding the GT4 owner. Are you saying his car came with the Pagid yellow pads like he claimed or that he was mistaken and they were something else? The Pagid yellow pads are actually an entire family of endurance pads (RSL family) made of slightly different compounds for different endurance applications. He could have had Pagid "yellows," but they may or may not have been the RSL29s.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by CP911

I got the Pagid RSL29 installed today, and cold braking was just fine.

I actually feel like they have more initial bite than the OEM pads, despite your experiences to the contrary.

Great, enjoy them. And yes, I was saying they have less bite than other track pads I've ran (several Hawks mostly). They're definitely more grabby than the OEM pads.

Originally Posted by CP911

Confused about your statements regarding the GT4 owner.

Eh, not worth discussing -- it was just an off-handed comment by someone trying to make small talk.

[tbaig]

I am looking to replace my OEM pads with street pads. I don't track my car at all. Looks like EBC Yellowstuff is the way to go. Any other brands i should consider?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by msendit

...while I set up better brake cooling

I've been meaning to ask: what are your plans or what actions have you taken to improve your front rotor cooling, if any?

I'm still under the strong impression that it's not difficult to overheat our OEM braking components, including when braking in a manner appropriate for each of the corners on a track with moderate braking demands. That's with quality racing brake fluid, racing brake pads, and track tires (in my case, Castrol SRF, Hawk DTC-70s, and the Toyo R888R).

This result isn't surprising, but I don't see room to fit the 3" brake duct hoses that are used to feed cool air to the interior of the front rotors of E36s and E46s. One (former) owner here solved this problem by installing the M235i Racing widebody kit, giving him room for effective brake ducting as well as wider wheels and tires. That's not a realistic option for almost any of us here who desire heat-resistant braking performance on what are essentially still our street cars.

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by tbaig

I am looking to replace my OEM pads with street pads. I don't track my car at all. Looks like EBC Yellowstuff is the way to go. Any other brands i should consider?

if you want the best out of your brakes, yes, best pad for street IMO with motul 600 flush.

They are dusty, and squeak unless you use alot of paste.

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I've been meaning to ask: what are your plans or what actions have you taken to improve your front rotor cooling, if any?

I'm still under the strong impression that it's not difficult to overheat our OEM braking components, including when braking in a manner appropriate for each of the corners on a track with moderate braking demands. That's with quality racing brake fluid, racing brake pads, and track tires (in my case, Castrol SRF, Hawk DTC-70s, and the Toyo R888R).

This result isn't surprising, but I don't see room to fit the 3" brake duct hoses that are used to feed cool air to the interior of the front rotors of E36s and E46s. One (former) owner here solved this problem by installing the M235i Racing widebody kit, giving him room for effective brake ducting as well as wider wheels and tires. That's not a realistic option for almost any of us here who desire heat-resistant braking performance on what are essentially still our street cars.

looked into this, no real options. Have to run custom dryer like tubing out from under, no room undercar, than run to a plate behind rotor, no room next to tire.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I'm still under the strong impression that it's not difficult to overheat our OEM braking components.

Completely agree now. I've claimed otherwise before, but that was just Dunning-Kruger -- I just wasn't pushing the car hard enough. After learning to carry a bit more speed and to trail brake more to get the front rotated, it's really not that hard to overheat the brakes with decent tires.

Originally Posted by dradernh

what are your plans or what actions have you taken to improve your front rotor cooling, if any?

I've been playing around with ducting over the last few weeks. Bigger rotors / calipers will probably help for a while (and I might do that anyway), but without better cooling it's just delaying the problem.

It's really really tight, but there might be something workable. Huge grain of salt though -- I haven't tried this around the block yet, let alone on the track.

First thought was to reuse some of the OEM ducting. Basically cut off the last bit that kinda turns into the wheel and run a hose next to the fender wall. The first pic kinda gives the idea. But with any reasonable track wheel it's too tight at full lock.





That doesn't leave too many options. I tried going inside directly from the center of the wheel -- there's a bit of a gap between the frame and the subframe there, so you can get a 3" hose through with a bit of squishing. Then above the steering rack and below the thrust arm to the belly pan. If you're careful about routing it near the center of the thrust arm, you shouldn't be near anything that moves vertically and can catch it. This gives you a rough idea:



Right now I just have it kinda sag below and reach the ducting in a 3d-style replica lip.




But with a couple of cuts in these annoying little $20 plasticky bits, you can probably route it on top of them, and not lose any ground clearance (they bulge down a fair bit).

And of course on the rotor side, cut a hole in the dust boot, attach a flange to it, and get the hose there.



That's where I'm at right now. Still playing around and very very untested, but at least seems that it *might* work. With all the squishing and bending though, a 3" hose is probably wasted. And the ground clearance bit will be much simpler with 2" anyway. I just got a few feet of that, so I'll try and attach it a bit more permanently over the next few days.

[CP911]

Reporting back after a 2-day HPDE with newly installed Pagid RSL29 brake pads + Motul RBF660 fluid. Totally flawless braking performance and a perfect match with my MPSS street tires. Very happy with my decision to run the Pagids as my first set of aftermarket track/race pads. They really don't squeal all that badly on the street now that they've been bedded in and used a bit. They only squeal in a certain temp range (not when cold and not after warmed up a bit). No safety issues on street either with cold bite. They grab just fine. On the track, I had 2 different instructors comment about how well the brakes were working and holding up when I scared the crap out of them by braking deep into the turns! Rotors have no glazing, bad streaking, or damage to them. Just the appropriate amount of pad transfer. They were a good match for the MPSS tires too. I really only recall engaging ABS a couple of times after pressing HARD on the pedal in a few "OH SH*T" moments. Even then, only a few light skips/pulses and the tires would grip again and bring me to a near hault.

Overall, very pleased with the results. I may try something different next time just to experiment, but I can say with confidence these are a good "go-to" pad for my track needs on a car I am driving to and from the track.

[CP911]

As for brake cooling, I'm interested in this topic as well.

When I visited Fall Line Motorsports, they let me walk around and check out some cars. I noticed some cars had a single ~ 3" duct leading to the inside vanes of the rotors, but what I found more intriguing and I suspect more effective were the cars that had 3 smaller ~ 1.5-2" ducts that all led to the inside vanes about 2-3" apart from one another. I was told our factory brake ducting is pretty much ineffective as the air is not concentrated to the inside of the rotor, so if I do end up trying to enhance brake cooling, I will see what I can do to replicate the 3-hose setup I saw on some of the Porsche race cars.

[bryan_G01]

CP911 You gotta get rid of those mpss asap. re71r, tire rack.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by bryan_G01

CP911 You gotta get rid of those mpss asap. re71r, tire rack.

Gotta check them out. My MPSS aren't going to last more than 1 or 2 more HPDEs at this rate. Just not enough camber or tire width up front to withstand the punishment on track. I was rolling over the front left pretty badly and the shoulders of both front tires took some abuse.

I have 2 concerns about a dedicated track tire: 1) is it okay to drive them to the track without generating a "heat cycle" and taking significant track life out of them, and 2) will I then feel like my brakes are taking too much abuse/generating too much heat and then find it necessary to pay up for a BBK and custom brake ducting? I'm just wondering if sticking with a better, but wider street tire like PS4S and some camber plates will suffice for my needs to still have fun while keeping costs down... I'm open to thoughts/suggestions here!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by CP911

Gotta check them out. My MPSS aren't going to last more than 1 or 2 more HPDEs at this rate. Just not enough camber or tire width up front to withstand the punishment on track. I was rolling over the front left pretty badly and the shoulders of both front tires took some abuse.

I have 2 concerns about a dedicated track tire: 1) is it okay to drive them to the track without generating a "heat cycle" and taking significant track life out of them, and 2) will I then feel like my brakes are taking too much abuse/generating too much heat and then find it necessary to pay up for a BBK and custom brake ducting? I'm just wondering if sticking with a better, but wider street tire like PS4S and some camber plates will suffice for my needs to still have fun while keeping costs down... I'm open to thoughts/suggestions here!

The PS4s are basically a better PSS but still has a soft sidewall.... also wider tires won't fix anything... if anything it would be worse, even more rollover

Get a dedicated track set so you don't destroy the street tires or feel bad about trashing them....

Like Direzzas Star spec 2 or Hankook RS4s or RE71R....
Then if you worry about pads just get something like the EBC Yellow that you can use on the street and on the track.... stock rotors are fine...

If you are non-xdrive put the M3 LCA's and you will get -1.7 / -1.8 camber in the front...

[keylime503]

M235i and M240i have the same brakes right? I wanted to add EBC yellows to my M240i but my installer just called me and said EBC yellows are only supported for M235i up to 2015, not M240i. Seems off to me, could be a case of some website not being updated since 2015?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by keylime503

M235i and M240i have the same brakes right? I wanted to add EBC yellows to my M240i but my installer just called me and said EBC yellows are only supported for M235i up to 2015, not M240i. Seems off to me, could be a case of some website not being updated since 2015?

Yes, the same blue sport Brembo calipers.

[bryan_G01]

same, part numbers are on the sheet on 1st page.

Going to put yellows on the x3 m40.

[drives like jehu]

Finally got the PFC 08's out on the track on my '16 M235i. Very pleased with their track performance, same as people say; lot of bite, no fade, no problem. I could go noticeably farther into a corner before braking; took a little while to learn the braking and make use of it.
Taking them off immediately; they're lousy for the street. Very squeaky, the dust is incredibly hard to clean off.
Met my expectations for track day pads.

[xingqianli]

just one more data point of EBC yellow on my M240i:

After ONE track day at laguna seca (seven 20 minute sessions), the pads are gone. I mean, from new (12mm) to 4mm left. still can drive home with them though

These pads are just NOT for track use on our cars (too heavy)

Now I'm trying to find a racing pad that still can be driven on the street, but it seems like a tough job.. (do not want my car to sound like a train every time i come to a stop)

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by xingqianli

just one more data point of EBC yellow on my M240i:

After ONE track day at laguna seca (seven 20 minute sessions), the pads are gone. I mean, from new (12mm) to 4mm left. still can drive home with them though

These pads are just NOT for track use on our cars (too heavy)

Now I'm trying to find a racing pad that still can be driven on the street, but it seems like a tough job.. (do not want my car to sound like a train every time i come to a stop)

No surprise there.

If you contact a vendor representing multiple pad manufacturers' products and present them with your requirements, I'm sure you will find a pad that meets your needs. In my case, I chose full-on race pads and drive on the street in such a way that noise is very rarely an issue.

[xingqianli]

Originally Posted by dradernh

No surprise there.

If you contact a vendor representing multiple pad manufacturers' products and present them with your requirements, I'm sure you will find a pad that meets your needs. In my case, I chose full-on race pads and drive on the street in such a way that noise is very rarely an issue.

After some research, I'm about to pull the trigger on pfc 08. Probably can not go around the noise issue with racing pads if I do not want to swap. Now I'm wondering if the OE rotors will just be fine or I need to upgrade to some slot rotors?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by xingqianli

After some research, I'm about to pull the trigger on pfc 08. Probably can not go around the noise issue with racing pads if I do not want to swap. Now I'm wondering if the OE rotors will just be fine or I need to upgrade to some slot rotors?

On a dedicated track car, you might choose slotted rotors. If you drive your car on the street, I'm not sure it matters.

Be sure and let us know how the new PFC08s work for you at Laguna Seca.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by xingqianli

After some research, I'm about to pull the trigger on pfc 08. Probably can not go around the noise issue with racing pads if I do not want to swap. Now I'm wondering if the OE rotors will just be fine or I need to upgrade to some slot rotors?

OE rotors will be fine with PFC-08, it's an endurance compound, not supposed to be super tough on rotors. I went from Pagid RSL-29 (yellows) to PFC-08s this year. Pedal control needs to be more finite with them, but they grab earlier. They'll work just fine at Laguna.