[Jaxom]

Hi all,

I recently purchased a BMW M240i, unfortunately, I totaled the vehicle in a collision not too long ago.

As my insurance was going through the history of the vehicle, it would appear that the vehicle was in an accident/collision prior and had some repair done which did not appear on carfax nor did the dealer disclose this to me.

When I approached the sales agent who sold me the vehicle via text, he mentioned they had no idea.. I find this a bit hard to believe... considering I bought the vehicle CPO.

What are my options here... do I even have any? I am in the state of Arizona in PHX.

Cheers,
Jax

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

What are my options here... do I even have any?

If it were me, I'd contact a local lemon law attorney and see what he or she had to say.

[Rocky58]

Is the insurance company reducing your payment on this basis? What was the damage and was it properly repaired? It's possible that if the damage was not visible the dealer didn't know either, just like you. But the fact that it was a CPO and the fact that the insurance company easily discovered the history of damage and repair means that you are in a pretty strong position to claim that the dealer should have known. If the insurance company is in fact reducing your payout for diminished value, you have a legitimate claim against the dealer for this amount. You will probably have to get a lawyer unless the dealer just caves, which I doubt they will do without threat of legal action.

[4Hockey4]

BMW does not have to disclose paint or wreck work, for CPO. Had a whole discussion with HQ as I was looking. If its in good mechanical order and passes their "warranty" test, it can be CPO.

I told them CPO should be in good faith with a customer, not a litmus test for profit, which it is (ie they have a car unlikely that'll come back for warranty work, but can get a premium for)

I found one, had them run paint gauge etc. I also ran the car over myself.

Unless you totaled the car BECAUSE of prior damage/work, not sure whats the point. I actually had them sign something that said "to the best of their knowledge" car had zero paint work.

They are experts, no way a used car manager/auction buyer, couldn't pick out repaint in 8 seconds.

(I also used to wholesale and sell cars, way back when)

Good Luck

[Jaxom]

Understood... right now insurance isn't taking that into account for the fair valuation of the vehicle (I believe) however I guess I could try to approach them if otherwise.
I don't think the car was totalled due to prior damage (unsure), I was in a turn and lost traction from the rear I think the tires were to blame if anything they were coming up to their due date.

[morphomeman]

OP: it is not clear what your question is or what you are looking for. If the car was totalled, the insurance company will give you what it is worth. That is what the meaning of the term is. If you are claiming that the car was damaged previous to your purchase, then you seem to be suggesting that it is worth LESS. You don't want the car to be worth less, because then you will get less from the insurance company.
As for who caused the accident, if the tires were close to the limit, then the main party responsible is YOU. My suggestion is that you simply keep quiet and learn your lesson: don't go around corners at excessive speed with bad tires.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

As for who caused the accident, if the tires were close to the limit, then the main party responsible is YOU.

Too right.

The track day club I belong to has a rule that if you have a spin, hit anything or put one or more wheels off the track you come in and talk to the marshals. If you start the explanation of what happened with anything other than "I....." (for example with "The car...." or "The tyres...."), then that is the end of your track day. They only allow people on track who know what they did wrong and correct their actions going forward, as they don't offer instruction on safe operation of the car.

[USA-RET]

If your insurance company is offering you less (as a total) due to the prior accident, then you may have a claim against the selling dealership for that difference. If they (insurance) are offering you what they would for a previously undamaged car, then it's end of story IMO.

I think you'd be chasing unicorns if you try to go back to the selling dealership and try to recover some difference in the amount you paid for the car (as having been in an accident vs. one that wasn't).

Even if your insurance company is offering you less for the Total wreck based on the previous accident, I'm not sure the difference in $ would justify the expense of a lawyer.
If they offer a lesser amount based on the car's history, you can go back to the dealership and ask for some compensation. Unlikely they will just write you a check. If they don't make some sort of offer (sell you another car with a deeper discount) or something to satisfy you, you certainly can call out their sale practices, tell them you'll never do business with them again and you will spread to word to all your friends.

I would first wait and see how things play out. Likely you will get a fair price for your wrecked BMW and just move on.

[TonM3]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Hi all,

I recently purchased a BMW M240i, unfortunately, I totaled the vehicle in a collision not too long ago.

As my insurance was going through the history of the vehicle, it would appear that the vehicle was in an accident/collision prior and had some repair done which did not appear on carfax nor did the dealer disclose this to me.

When I approached the sales agent who sold me the vehicle via text, he mentioned they had no idea.. I find this a bit hard to believe... considering I bought the vehicle CPO.

What are my options here... do I even have any? I am in the state of Arizona in PHX.

Cheers,
Jax

Which dealer was it?

[pmcmtnbkr]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

Understood... right now insurance isn't taking that into account for the fair valuation of the vehicle (I believe) however I guess I could try to approach them if otherwise.
I don't think the car was totalled due to prior damage (unsure), I was in a turn and lost traction from the rear I think the tires were to blame if anything they were coming up to their due date.

Where I come from this can be written as to fast for conditions by the on scene officer it doesn't matter if you wreck and leave the road at a 10th of a mile per hour or 100mph the fact you left the road/crashed is all that is relevant and if I sound a you know what so be it. please take responsibility for operating you vehicle in an unsafe manner or with unsafe equipment.

[Jaxom]

To confirm I am not blaming the dealer for the crash at all?

My entire point here is about how the car was previously in an accident and they didn't disclose this to me. It's something especially on a CPO vehicle I would expect them to uncover.

The previous accident was reported as a collision and required bodywork/fender and front bumper replacement. When I viewed the vehicle there was a dent on the hood but the salesperson said that was probably of rocks anyway I digress.

Please keep the thread on topic thank you. Thankfully insurance didn't discount me for that prior collision/accident.


Funnily enough, when talking to the old dealership they didn't even ask if I'd want to return or keep them in mind for a new bmw.. I think they knew the answer was a no.


I'll PM you TonM3.

[morriscat]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

My entire point here is about how the car was previously in an accident and they didn't disclose this to me. It's something especially on a CPO vehicle I would expect them to uncover.

I think what's confusing people is it's not clear why you would need any recourse against the dealership. Do you feel that you paid too much for the car because the accident wasn't disclosed?

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by morriscat

I think what's confusing people is it's not clear why you would need any recourse against the dealership. Do you feel that you paid too much for the car because the accident wasn't disclosed?

All car purchases as buyer beware, none disclose (few exceptions) and why carfax is multi million dollar business.

Not sure any one digressed really, since the opening point was unclear...kinda still is, other then "I got taken and I'm pissed"

Hope no one was hurt in accident

[Jaxom]

Yes I think I paid slightly higher than I should've due to the accident not being disclosed, and initially, I was slightly agitated that insurance may have dinged me due to that previous accident by the prior owner, however, they didn't.

No one was hurt thankfully. Regardless as I'm planning my next purchase I won't go to that dealership and have learned a valuable lesson in regards to getting things in writing.

[rvt1000]

You need to look at filing a claim with car fax. They are the ones stating the vehicle had a clean history.

Regarding your insurance claim I used to work as a vehicle appraiser. If the insurance is low balling you then you need to call and tell them your "invoking your appraisal clause". Some will even try and tell you there is no such thing to make you go away. Once you do this you will need to pay for your own appraisal. The insurance company will pay for their appraisal and the appraisers will try to work to come to an agreement on the proper value of the vehicle. If they can't then you have the right to have a third appraiser make a final binding decision (at additional cost).

Talk to an appraiser first before you invoke the clause. My fee at the time was $300 for the appraisal and I would guarantee them at least $1k over what the insurance was asking or I wouldn't take it. (less than that its worth it to the insurance company to make you get the third appraisal and spend $500-600 when you might not get anything out of it). Most of my clients got between $1500 and $2500 more, got $10k on a Maserati one time.

Danny Hudson works out of Houston but has contacts all over the country.
Last phone I had for him was 281-914-9760 or dhudson@avrecovery.com

[B58togo]

Originally Posted by dradernh

If it were me, I'd contact a local lemon law attorney and see what he or she had to say.

What exactly does a single collision repair have to do with lemon laws?

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by rvt1000

You need to look at filing a claim with car fax. They are the ones stating the vehicle had a clean history.

Regarding your insurance claim I used to work as a vehicle appraiser. If the insurance is low balling you then you need to call and tell them your "invoking your appraisal clause". Some will even try and tell you there is no such thing to make you go away. Once you do this you will need to pay for your own appraisal. The insurance company will pay for their appraisal and the appraisers will try to work to come to an agreement on the proper value of the vehicle. If they can't then you have the right to have a third appraiser make a final binding decision (at additional cost).

Talk to an appraiser first before you invoke the clause. My fee at the time was $300 for the appraisal and I would guarantee them at least $1k over what the insurance was asking or I wouldn't take it. (less than that its worth it to the insurance company to make you get the third appraisal and spend $500-600 when you might not get anything out of it). Most of my clients got between $1500 and $2500 more, got $10k on a Maserati one time.

Danny Hudson works out of Houston but has contacts all over the country.
Last phone I had for him was 281-914-9760 or dhudson@avrecovery.com

Too late.. I will definitely do this next time though... I definitely lost out on a few grand here sigh.

[pmcmtnbkr]

I dont think there is any case against car fax it is only as good as what is reported to it. If the accident wasnt entered into the carfax system. Have seen plenty of cars with very apparent accident damage none ome fenders botched paint bad body gaps with clean car fax reports.

[MarcoZandrini]

This why any used car you are considering to buy to undergo a pre-purchase inspection. Try www.bimrs.org to find a reputable indie shop in your area.

[morphomeman]

It is not clear that an inspection would have revealed this particular damage. If so, though, OP might have been able to negotiate a lower purchase price. He could have used the savings to buy new tires!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

It is not clear that an inspection would have revealed this particular damage. If so, though, OP might have been able to negotiate a lower purchase price. He could have used the savings to buy new tires!

A body shop is best for going over the body, paint, and trim.