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      01-15-2017, 08:20 AM   #1
hhuffman
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Confirmation of M235 Stock Numbers with JB4

I just ordered a JB4 and after a moderate to high amount of confusing research, please confirm or correct what I have come up with to be accurate.

Stock M235i:
wHP: 290 is average dyno
engine HP: 320 (likely a little higher, but this is what BMW uses for all marketing materials)

Stock M235i with JB4 Stage 1:
wHP: 320
engine HP: 350

My transmission is AT

Adding BMS intake will add 10 HP.

Since I'll never dyno my car at this stage I don't want to be full of crap when people ask what it's putting out.

Thanks, and happy Sunday.

Last edited by hhuffman; 01-15-2017 at 10:21 AM..
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      01-15-2017, 10:18 AM   #2
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Most Dynojet numbers I've seen are 305-310whp and 325-330wtq for the 6mt cars and the 8ats being fractionally lower. With the JB4, it's around 340whp and 370wtq.

Intakes don't do squat. Yes, there are dynos showing around 5 to 10whp being gained but if you look at the dyno plots the "gains" occur over a few hundred rpms here and there. It will not result in a faster car. It's just another case of the aftermarket preying on people's ingorance.
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      01-15-2017, 10:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Most Dynojet numbers I've seen are 305-310whp and 325-330wtq for the 6mt cars and the 8ats being fractionally lower. With the JB4, it's around 340whp and 370wtq.
Thank you Xutv, I've updated my post to include my automatic transmission. My car is a beast in stock mode, so I am not surprised by the numbers you quote (305-310 wHP), those numbers just seem like dream numbers, so it's nice to see them corroborated.
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      01-18-2017, 06:55 PM   #4
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There is no average number, you need to do a baseline and then another run with the JB stage 1 .. Numbers vary from one dyno to another.

I recommend you dyno your car fully stock or else you will never know exactly how much power you are gaining
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      01-19-2017, 02:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Most Dynojet numbers I've seen are 305-310whp and 325-330wtq for the 6mt cars and the 8ats being fractionally lower. With the JB4, it's around 340whp and 370wtq.
Not bad. How does that compute to power at the flywheel for a totally stock engine?
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      01-19-2017, 03:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Not bad. How does that compute to power at the flywheel for a totally stock engine?
Conservatively, most typically assume a 12% loss for a 6MT, 15% for an automatic, and 18% for AWD.

A stock 6MT making 310whp/330wtq would be making around ~350hp (310/.88) and ~375tq (330/.88) stock at the flywheel or 20hp and 45tq over quoted stock figures. Given the magazine numbers for the 6MT of 13.4@107mph and the curb weight for a loaded 6MT (~3,500lbs), the stock power of 350hp/375tq sounds appropriate. I've also noted that the Car & Driver and R&T 6MT M235 test cars only had 1,000-2,000 miles. I'm certain these cars get a bit stronger with some mileage. Considering that the broken-in M2 6MT mag test cars are running 12.8s@111mph and are only making 20whp/30wtq more than M235, I think a broken in 6MT M235 could be more like 13.1@109mph.

I wish I still had a 1/4 mile track nearby. I've always managed to be beat mag numbers by .3 seconds and 2-3mph and with slicks on the 6MT, I'm pretty certain 12.8s@110mph stock are attainable assuming a 1.8 60 foot.
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      01-28-2017, 05:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Not bad. How does that compute to power at the flywheel for a totally stock engine?
Conservatively, most typically assume a 12% loss for a 6MT, 15% for an automatic, and 18% for AWD.

A stock 6MT making 310whp/330wtq would be making around ~350hp (310/.88) and ~375tq (330/.88) stock at the flywheel or 20hp and 45tq over quoted stock figures. Given the magazine numbers for the 6MT of 13.4@107mph and the curb weight for a loaded 6MT (~3,500lbs), the stock power of 350hp/375tq sounds appropriate. I've also noted that the Car & Driver and R&T 6MT M235 test cars only had 1,000-2,000 miles. I'm certain these cars get a bit stronger with some mileage. Considering that the broken-in M2 6MT mag test cars are running 12.8s@111mph and are only making 20whp/30wtq more than M235, I think a broken in 6MT M235 could be more like 13.1@109mph.

I wish I still had a 1/4 mile track nearby. I've always managed to be beat mag numbers by .3 seconds and 2-3mph and with slicks on the 6MT, I'm pretty certain 12.8s@110mph stock are attainable assuming a 1.8 60 foot.
M2 with DCT put down 335-340whp on 93 and finish 1/4 mile in 12.5 secs. 30WHP deficit eats you by 0.3 secs and another 0.3 secs down from ZF8 in 3 shift-ups.

You'll be looking at 13.1-13.2 in 1/4 with a stock m235i ideally.
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      01-31-2017, 04:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Most Dynojet numbers I've seen are 305-310whp and 325-330wtq for the 6mt cars and the 8ats being fractionally lower. With the JB4, it's around 340whp and 370wtq.

Intakes don't do squat. Yes, there are dynos showing around 5 to 10whp being gained but if you look at the dyno plots the "gains" occur over a few hundred rpms here and there. It will not result in a faster car. It's just another case of the aftermarket preying on people's ingorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
M2 with DCT put down 335-340whp on 93 and finish 1/4 mile in 12.5 secs. 30WHP deficit eats you by 0.3 secs and another 0.3 secs down from ZF8 in 3 shift-ups.

You'll be looking at 13.1-13.2@102-103 consistently in 1/4 with a stock m235i ideally.
My X4 M40i runs 13.1 stock not bad for being heavier than m235, rated at 355hp/343tq at the crank
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Last edited by FSociety; 01-31-2017 at 10:29 PM..
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      01-31-2017, 09:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
M2 with DCT put down 335-340whp on 93 and finish 1/4 mile in 12.5 secs. 30WHP deficit eats you by 0.3 secs and another 0.3 secs down from ZF8 in 3 shift-ups.

You'll be looking at 13.1-13.2 in 1/4 with a stock m235i ideally.
Agreed. I just wish I had a strip nearby to give it a shot. It's REALLY easy to beat mag times with some practice and negative density altitude conditions. There's no doubt in my mind a stock M235 6MT could see 109-110mph traps in sea level air. ET is all about traction. Strap on some 26" 8 inch wide slicks and a low 1.8 60 foot should net 12.8ish. 2.0 60 foots should be easy on the stock rubber and some clutch slip. Hell, my bonestock 2012 WRX with 240whp/240twq and weighing ~3,250lb (without me) did 13.3@101mph with a 1.83 60 foot. Surely a slightly heavier M235 with 60+whp and nearly 100wtq would see 12.8s with the same 60 foot.

The thing is, most guys on here don't take their cars to the strip thus we have to rely on mag times most of the time unfortunately.
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      02-01-2017, 07:07 PM   #10
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It really stinks that they closed the strip in Kansas City, I've been there many time with my Syclone. I turned my first 11 second pass at KCIR.

If all the planets line up and the weather cooperates I'm going to make a few passes at MoKan on Sunday. I've never been there but Tulsa isn't open yet.
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      02-01-2017, 07:28 PM   #11
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intake

On my other turbo cars intake systems sure seemed to add power, but we are talking about the M235i now. I added a JB4 to my car and on map 1 it lowered my 0 to 60 by .11 seconds. A week later i added an AFE intake system and it lowered my 0 to 60 by .07 seconds. I noticed improved throttle response too. My butt dyno is not very sensitive so i was suprised to notice the improved throttle response. This may not be typical but it's what i observed.
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      02-02-2017, 02:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syclonedriver View Post
On my other turbo cars intake systems sure seemed to add power, but we are talking about the M235i now. I added a JB4 to my car and on map 1 it lowered my 0 to 60 by .11 seconds. A week later i added an AFE intake system and it lowered my 0 to 60 by .07 seconds. I noticed improved throttle response too. My butt dyno is not very sensitive so i was suprised to notice the improved throttle response. This may not be typical but it's what i observed.
Intakes do add power (anyone who takes their car to a dyno will clearly see it).
Problem is that power is not noticeable to the butt dyno because its only ~5-10whp (on high rpm)
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      02-04-2017, 09:52 AM   #13
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With jb4 and a cattless DP your probably running a 12.4 qtr mile. 350ish whp.
With dp, jb4, intake and intercooler, youll probably be around 12.2. 380- 390ish whp.

A full bolt on with jb4 with a few gallons of e85 will be around 390-405 whp.

hope this helps.
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      02-04-2017, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan_f22 View Post
With jb4 and a cattless DP your probably running a 12.4 qtr mile. 350ish whp.
With dp, jb4, intake and intercooler, youll probably be around 12.2. 380- 390ish whp.

A full bolt on with jb4 with a few gallons of e85 will be around 390-405 whp.

hope this helps.
Sounds about right
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      02-05-2017, 01:36 AM   #15
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The Americans have what I call PP (pony power) whereas across the pond we have HP (horse power). This is the only logical explanation I can find to all American cars making ~10-15% more

Joking...the logical reason is that the DynoJet is the "standard" in USA, and that the DynoJet is more optimistic than most other brands. Most American WHP can be "translated" to European Engine HP.
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      02-21-2017, 12:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harkes View Post
The Americans have what I call PP (pony power) whereas across the pond we have HP (horse power). This is the only logical explanation I can find to all American cars making ~10-15% more

Joking...the logical reason is that the DynoJet is the "standard" in USA, and that the DynoJet is more optimistic than most other brands. Most American WHP can be "translated" to European Engine HP.


Haha 老哥稳

So thats the reason we do baseline on stock before mods.
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      03-07-2017, 04:11 AM   #17
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I went on a resistance cell dyno and got:

318hp (crank) 260whp stock (was on winter tyres lol)

400 (crank) 340whp JB4 Map 6 with sport cat (Michelin PSS)

Both runs were using 98 RON (93) Esso Supreme

So do take "whp" with a pinch of salt
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      03-07-2017, 06:09 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan_f22 View Post
With dp, jb4, intake and intercooler, youll probably be around 12.2. 380- 390ish whp.
It's even too ambitious to say for a m2 to achieve 380-390whp with those mods
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      03-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan_f22 View Post
With jb4 and a cattless DP your probably running a 12.4 qtr mile. 350ish whp.
With dp, jb4, intake and intercooler, youll probably be around 12.2. 380- 390ish whp.

A full bolt on with jb4 with a few gallons of e85 will be around 390-405 whp.

hope this helps.
My M235i barely made 364whp with a JB4, Catless DP and E85 mixture.

That is was starting to push the N55 to it's limited with an auto trans.
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      03-07-2017, 05:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
It's even too ambitious to say for a m2 to achieve 380-390whp with those mods

What do you mean? I can show you at least 5 cars in our group with those mods making that power on a dynojet.

Add meth, now your breaking into 415-425 while maxing out stock turbos. Add a pure stage 2, now your 450. Add a port injection kit, remove meth, n20 tmap and you can make up to 600.

Here:
Dinan stage 3 with catted dp
Enzo v1 tune with catted dp
RK tunes with cattless dp (custom dyno based tune, not off the shelf map)

I have to dyno again since im back on Enzo with my own custom map file (ppl been running my map by request)
I'm thinking 415whp/460 tq since i stack the jb+ ontop of flash tune. Ran a 11.865 at 115 mph with this setup.
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      03-07-2017, 05:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan_f22 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
It's even too ambitious to say for a m2 to achieve 380-390whp with those mods

What do you mean? I can show you at least 5 cars in our group with those mods making that power on a dynojet.

Add meth, now your breaking into 415-425 while maxing out stock turbos. Add a pure stage 2, now your 450. Add a port injection kit, remove meth, n20 tmap and you can make up to 600.

Here:
Dinan stage 3 with catted dp
Enzo v1 tune with catted dp
RK tunes with cattless dp (custom dyno based tune, not off the shelf map)

I have to dyno again since im back on Enzo with my own custom map file (ppl been running my map by request)
I'm thinking 415whp/460 tq since i stack the jb+ ontop of flash tune. Ran a 11.865 at 115 mph with this setup.
Are all of these runs on pump gas?

This is what a m2 with IC/DP on Dinan stage 1 makes. It's arguably stronger than a m235 Dinan stage 3 (stock m2 equivalent) to say the least.
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      03-07-2017, 07:21 PM   #22
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this is all 93. WHP. Dinan is crank numbers.

A stock m2 makes 325 whp on 93, do your homework before making claims.


From dinan website "F87 M2: 383 HP, 411 lb-ft of torque." Crank... so its 337whp. How is that same as a 235 with mods?

A stage 4 big turbo Dinan m2 will only make 400whp, with a DP maybe 415whp.

Actually only 380whp, see below:
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