11-18-2018, 08:53 AM | #45 | ||
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11-18-2018, 10:15 AM | #46 | |
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As luck would have it we were on the lower catwalk returning with 'refreshments' when that pass happened and we could easily see way up the straight. It was easy to have a premonition of what was about to happen, and we did, but we and everybody else in that grandstand was thinking "no way" or "he's not really going to....." even as Daniel was exiting the chicken leaving Kimi checking his wallet. I've been watching this stuff since race tires were treaded and that pass ranks as one of the damnedest things I've seen on a race track. I envy you working with a driver as elegant Daniel. (Edit: "chicken" is how A. Prost always pronounced "chicane"......I think deliberately) . |
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11-18-2018, 10:21 AM | #47 | |
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But what the idiot did to Max is/was no fairytale !
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11-18-2018, 10:21 AM | #48 | ||
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11-18-2018, 10:34 AM | #49 | |
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Hasselt is nowhere close to the Dutch border . I live 23km from Hasselt and I'm closer to Holland . I drive everyday to Hasselt because my company is located in Hasselt ..
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11-18-2018, 11:06 AM | #50 | |
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MAX at *age 4* Yes he was only 4 ! Drove his first karting race in Genk and Max won the race ! What Max showed in karting in Genk was beyond believe , a born winner ! The picture shows your silver spoon ...
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11-18-2018, 11:39 AM | #51 |
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11-18-2018, 12:03 PM | #52 | |
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11-18-2018, 12:09 PM | #53 | |
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Had he not done that, Ocon would have easily cruised past, unlapped himself, and opened up a gap. If Verstappen managed to catch up to him again, blue flags would have been shown, and Verstappen could lap him again. Sadly, Verstappen used his heart instead his head, to made a dscision, and a badly one at that. He must just remember one thing there will be a lot of other young and upcoming new drivers - Ocon, Leclerc, George Russell, etc, who could / will end up in competitive cars. They will want to show everyone that they are a match for him, and will not shy away from confrontation. |
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11-18-2018, 01:32 PM | #54 | |
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To make it simple, Max already showed the signal that he wanted his line and he knew who was behind. Ocon knew the situation. Max would not expect Ocon to fight that hard, neither would anyone else in the race. That being said Ocon made a decision that was unpredictable which caused the accident. Maybe the right statement for Ocon should be "You can pass Verstappen with caution and no fight". |
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11-18-2018, 02:01 PM | #55 |
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Hamilton said after the race to MAX => *Ocon had nothing to lose*
Hamilton's comment was clearly BS ! Check this out.... ![]()
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11-18-2018, 02:21 PM | #56 | |
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Ocon forced him aside in the corner where the crash happened. Ocon wasnt even past him when they crashed. Even if this was a fight for a place this wouldnt be allowed imho. Ocon got punished for his move so there is no question who made the illegal move. Only in hindsight can one say that if he let Ocon pass and offered up some precious seconds from his lead that would be the right move but at that point in the race he still had to complete almost 30 rounds and the lead he had over Hamilton was only 10-15 sec or so. Loosing 1 or 2 sec then is a big deal. You dont know if there will be more of these situations. Verstappen rightfully said about hamiltons remarks that thats easy coming from someone who's driving in 2nd place and gets the victory thrown in his lap.
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11-18-2018, 03:30 PM | #57 | |
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11-18-2018, 05:25 PM | #58 | |
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Ocon got punished for his move which shows that Verstappen was not at fault but Ocon was. Ocon had no right to push him off the track the way he did. You might think differently, but the people who have a say in this decided it was Ocons fault. The only thing Verstappen did wrong was his behaviour right after the race, but I can imagine he was pumped with adrenaline after being illegally pushed off the track by a lesser driver. |
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11-18-2018, 06:48 PM | #59 | |
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11-18-2018, 07:05 PM | #60 | |
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As somebody else said it’ll be interesting/fun to see if Ocon gets into a car/team comparable to MVs and then see what happens. |
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11-18-2018, 07:09 PM | #61 |
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At that time verstappen was ahead of Ocon. Look at the footage:
![]() Does this look like a good move to unlap oneself? No punishment follows after the parties that have the mandate to judge found one guilty. Therefore Ocon is the guilty one. I dont see why you doubt the decision of the FIA race director. I bet he knows a lot more on this than all of us together here. If Ocon planned his overtake like he should have he wouldnt have been 10 carlengths behind when turning up on the straight and could have used DRS at the beginning of the straight completely overtaking him on the straight instead of now only able to put his car next to verstappen at the end of the straight. It was a poorly planned/executed overtaking situation. He didnt have the patience to wait another lap to place his car correctly at the beginning of the straight to do a proper overtake. He fucked up and wanted to hold his ground on the next corner. He had no right to do that being 1 lap behind and he got punished by the officials for that poor move. Thats what happened. If Ocon didnt make a mistake, he wouldnt have recieved his punishment. Its that simple.
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11-18-2018, 07:30 PM | #62 | |
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It does not look like a good move for Ocon to unlap himself. However, it also does not look like a good move for Verstappen to squeeze him off the track. But if you and M Power Belgium want to relieve Max of all fault in him losing his win, you are entitled. And mandated punishment does not necessarily follow all guilty parties. Are judicial systems infallible? |
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11-18-2018, 07:39 PM | #63 |
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I'm sure you're much more knowledgable than the FIA race director...
He said Ocon's move was "wholly unacceptable". Verstappen kept his driving line as he is entitled as race leader compared to someone he has lapped. Ocon wanted to stand his ground and decided not to back off (maybe because he got the go ahead from his team). And he got his punishment for that. I honestly dont know why this is a debate. Its pretty arrogant to think you know things better than the FIA Race director. The race director can judge penalties given by the stewards, but he didnt. That says enough imho. And the race director is a key person in defining the sporting regulations what's and what's not acceptable on the track. He said about Ocon's overtaking action: "Drivers unlapping themselves has happened many times in the past, but of course you expect it to be done safely. More to the point, it should be done cleanly and absolutely without fighting -- you shouldn't be fighting to get past." And thats why Ocon was at fault. Its like I said, he couldnt overtake verstappen on the straight because of his poor car placement at the beginning of the straigth, leaving a huge gap. He could only place his car next to verstappen at the end of the straigth. At that point he should have backed down and try it at another spot, but instead he decided not to and place his car on the inside of verstappen in the next corner where there was no space. In the pic I placed its very clear that verstappen was in front of Ocon. And its not about infallibility of judicial systems. It's a race. And the stewards (and race director) get to determine who's wrong and who's right. Not you or me, or the drivers or team bosses for that matter.
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11-18-2018, 08:58 PM | #64 |
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You keep arguing that Ocon was at fault and deserved a penalty, but I always agreed with that part...so I don't see why you say I disagreed with the stewards decision to punish Ocon. Maybe there is a misinterpretation here. The judicial system reference was just a side comment that probably confused the matter.
I don't understand what you want me to say though....Max did exactly what he should've done to win? He couldn't have done anything differently and won? His action was the best action possible in that scenario? He had no idea a car was racing him and putting his result at risk by fighting intensely? Let me propose an exaggerated hypothetical to explain what I mean. If you are driving on the highway and see a car driving the wrong way on the exit you need to take, will you take the exit anyways and assume/hope they change course or stop going the wrong way, or just take the next exit and lose some time? |
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11-19-2018, 01:22 AM | #65 | ||
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If a leading driver should be careful every time a lesser driver comes in view that is a lap behind, other drivers are going to take advantage on that. Thats why for example the blue flag system is in play, to seperate the race the leaders are driving from the guys way back in the field. Almost every race class handles these kind of situations the same. I dont understand why its so difficult to understand that. The explanation from the race director was quite clear I think? I had no problems understanding that at least. After the failed overtaking attempt of Ocon on the straight I think Verstappen expected Ocon to back down (like he should have) and try it at another spot. Instead Ocon held his ground forcing his car into the side of Verstappens car who drove the driving line in the next corner. This is a scenario you expect when 2 drivers are batteling for the same finishspot but not when one driver is trailing a lap. I'm sure when this was for a finish place Verstappen would have handled it differently because you can expect someone who's fighting you for the same spot isnt going to back down. But you cant expect someone who's trailing a lap behind to go in all gung ho in order to unlap himself. The rules say thats not allowed. Ocon's chances at toro rosso next year are probably nil right now if that is still playing. If he got ditched there, this was probably revenge.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 11-19-2018 at 01:54 AM.. |
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11-19-2018, 04:03 AM | #66 | |
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He did, he moved to the centre of the track. He should have stayed on the racing line, which is on the right. |
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