[Kolyan2k]

I've had my S2000 sit for about a month or so in winter on its original small 10 year old battery and it started just fine even in -20C, and before that I had it sitting for almost 3 month without a single start, just had to quickly jump it, thats it. Owner before me also had the car sitting in garage for many months. So I dont really get all this starting every 2 week and tickle chargers etc.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

So I dont really get all this starting every 2 week and tickle chargers etc.

Trickle, not tickle!

[harma24]

Having seen this, I wonder if the Michelin's advice is more based on trying to sell winter tires than an actual impact on performance (on dry pavement).

That being said, I currently have Alpin PA4's on my car for 6 months out of the year and have no plans on changing that strategy any time soon.

[9t2hoo]

I can’t comment on MPSS, which I got for the first time this year, but I stored PS2s in 15-20 degree weather for years and never had a problem.

[mcompact]

According to Tire Rack, the warning for the PSS states: like all summer tires they are not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

The PS4S warning reads: The Pilot Sport 4S excels in warm dry and wet conditions, so like all Max Performance Summer tires, is not intended to be serviced, stored nor driven in near- and below-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

I've occasionally driven(gingerly) my PSS equipped M235i in below-freezing temperatures and haven't noticed cracking of any kind. It looks as if the PS4S joins an increasing number of summer tires that shouldn't see sub-freezing temperatures under any circumstances.

[petegtsv10]

Originally Posted by harma24

Having seen this, I wonder if the Michelin's advice is more based on trying to sell winter tires than an actual impact on performance (on dry pavement).

That being said, I currently have Alpin PA4's on my car for 6 months out of the year and have no plans on changing that strategy any time soon.

corvetteforum.com has MANY pix of tires with cracks and I personally know of people with warranty claims denied by Michelin. Indeed, tires have cracked. This is not a hoax perpetuated by the Chinese....

[XutvJet]

Pretty sure the C7 MPSS are a completely different type of Super Sport series and have a more aggressive warm weather compound. I've never heard of standard MPSS tires cracking sidewalls. Never.

[Cumberlandjames]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

So the car idles for 15-20 minutes? Wouldnt that create carbon buildup instead of actually helping?

I don't let it just idle, It does for the first 5-10 minutes then I hold the RPM up to 2K for a few minutes, then idle and back up and down several times. It's hard to get the temps up at idle, the engine is too efficient but holding it at 2000 helps the oil come up to temp.
I also place it in drive and reverse several times just to move the transmission oil around. I did this for 4 winters on my A5 which was prone to carbon and this is the second winter on my M235 and no issues. My A5 even had a carbon check and was clean so there doesn't seem to be any negative effects.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

So the car idles for 15-20 minutes? Wouldnt that create carbon buildup instead of actually helping?

Not sure why I come across so many comments like this one about carbon build up from idling. Aren't these fuel injected cars that burn fuel very efficiently i.e. pretty much completely? Why would it build up carbon any more while idling compared to actually driving? Just a smaller amount of finely misted gas being combusted all the same...

Now, does BMW use EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) tech in their engines like Subaru's newest 2.0 DI engine in the WRX? Apparently, those cars could use intake valve cleaning around 20-30k miles due to excessive carbon build up that results from having the EGR valve.

[aaaaah]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

I've had my S2000 sit for about a month or so in winter on its original small 10 year old battery and it started just fine even in -20C, and before that I had it sitting for almost 3 month without a single start, just had to quickly jump it, thats it. Owner before me also had the car sitting in garage for many months. So I dont really get all this starting every 2 week and tickle chargers etc.

I just disconnect the battery on my E30 as it sits from Nov-Apr and then when I reconnect it, it starts right up. No other fucks given.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Cumberlandjames

I don't let it just idle, It does for the first 5-10 minutes then I hold the RPM up to 2K for a few minutes, then idle and back up and down several times. It's hard to get the temps up at idle, the engine is too efficient but holding it at 2000 helps the oil come up to temp.
I also place it in drive and reverse several times just to move the transmission oil around. I did this for 4 winters on my A5 which was prone to carbon and this is the second winter on my M235 and no issues. My A5 even had a carbon check and was clean so there doesn't seem to be any negative effects.

N55 doesn't have the carbon build up issues as the N54 did which required cleaning every 50k or so....

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

N55 doesn't have the carbon build up issues as the N54 did which required cleaning every 50k or so....

I think N55 is just a much better design and has much less build up. I am not saying it will build up carbon while idling or if not warmed up all the way, but I do think it will create more problems then just letting the car sit or perhaps drive it once a month or something

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by CP911

Not sure why I come across so many comments like this one about carbon build up from idling. Aren't these fuel injected cars that burn fuel very efficiently i.e. pretty much completely? Why would it build up carbon any more while idling compared to actually driving? Just a smaller amount of finely misted gas being combusted all the same...

Now, does BMW use EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) tech in their engines like Subaru's newest 2.0 DI engine in the WRX? Apparently, those cars could use intake valve cleaning around 20-30k miles due to excessive carbon build up that results from having the EGR valve.

Well all direct injected cars tend to build up carbon. Not sure if idling increases that, but not getting the engine to fully operational temps does. Google Italian Tune-up

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by harma24

Having seen this, I wonder if the Michelin's advice is more based on trying to sell winter tires than an actual impact on performance (on dry pavement).

That being said, I currently have Alpin PA4's on my car for 6 months out of the year and have no plans on changing that strategy any time soon.

Just checked out this vid. Well what can I say.....I don't think you really need to switch if temps are around 32 and it's usually dry, but if its wet or snowing I am pretty sure winter tires will be better. Also those winter tires are not high performance, while summer tires are.....I think this is the key here. That compound is really made for snow. I personally would never put those tires on my car. Would be interesting to see same test with some all-season touring tires

[beard627]

I just got off chat with Michelin. They said "don't drive them under 40 degrees F." We are going to be having some unusually cold temperatures this coming week (highs in the high 20's) so I'm driving my Outback.

There are so few days where it's this cold here in Texas. I don't want winter tires and new wheels but it does cost extra to have a winter car.

That said, it's not really a winter car. It's the practical car. No car is all things to all people.

[ggggbmw]

Attached is the official Michelin statement on cold weather. I got this from an online chat rep at Michelin when I asked about this in March. (Have it attached as a .png image. The original is a .pdf, also attached. Not sure the .pdf is usable.)

Like others, I've driven my PSS in colder temps than I should. I bought my car in January, at the tail end of a blizzard. It was 15 F and still icy/snowy on side streets. It took several tries to get up my driveway. That was a scary ride home. Didn't drive it again until I had the winter wheels/tires on it. And I won't ever again. (It's awesome fun in the snow with winters on.)

[B58togo]

I drove on them a couple times last month with temps down in the 26-28 degree range and traction was almost comical. Upper 30’s they were still manageable. FWIW, this was with 16k on the rears, so they were more or less down to the wear bars. Fortunately the fronts didn’t crack. Those are only half worn.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by NVHoo

Also, be advised that you are likely to get a nastygram from the monitor of this forum as I have in the past for discussing tires here. They insist that all tire-related discussion be only on the tire forum which I think is overly anal. IMO, tire PSAs like yours are better posted here where the average forum user can see them. Few people look at the tire forum on a regular basis.

No, it's not anal at all; it's common sense.

It's not the forum moderators' fault that people don't use this and other forums properly, just as it's not the moderators' responsibility to enable the 'average' forum user who can't be bothered by subforums. This forum is, first and foremost, a resource. Resources are best organized by topic.

Simply put, this topic is not specific to a 2 Series, therefore it belongs where it is specific to: tires. If you can't deal with the rocket science of subforums, use the morass that is Bimmerfest.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by harma24

Having seen this, I wonder if the Michelin's advice is more based on trying to sell winter tires than an actual impact on performance (on dry pavement).

That being said, I currently have Alpin PA4's on my car for 6 months out of the year and have no plans on changing that strategy any time soon.

Winter tires grip as a function of temperature. On cold surface they grip better than summer tires. Summer tires are harder in cold temps. Simple physics. Below 7C winter tires work very well. Good not to change if its cold where you are.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Winter tires grip as a function of temperature. On cold surface they grip better than summer tires. Summer tires are harder in cold temps. Simple physics. Below 7C winter tires work very well. Good not to change if its cold where you are.

Correct.

Folks, Think about tire compound the same way you think about oil viscosity ratings. Is it advisable to run 20W-50 in Canada this time of year? Absolutely not. Conversely, is it advisable to run 0W-20 in Texas in the dead of summer? Absolutely not.

Think of UHP Summer tires as 20W-50 and WPC (Winter Performance Compound) tires as 0W-20, and you'll be golden.

Even plastics have viscosity. Why does your car rattle more in the winter? Because some of the plastics used in it are far less pliable at low temps, to the point where some can crack under unusual stress (i.e., removal). Same basic physics rules apply.

[mdputnam]

Originally Posted by pz619

68 degrees today. Getting cold out there. Thinking of getting an engine block heater.

I don't even go outside when we have such low temperatures.

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Correct.

Folks, Think about tire compound the same way you think about oil viscosity ratings. Is it advisable to run 20W-50 in Canada this time of year? Absolutely not. Conversely, is it advisable to run 0W-20 in Texas in the dead of summer? Absolutely not.

Think of UHP Summer tires as 20W-50 and WPC (Winter Performance Compound) tires as 0W-20, and you'll be golden.

Even plastics have viscosity. Why does your car rattle more in the winter? Because some of the plastics used in it are far less pliable at low temps, to the point where some can crack under unusual stress (i.e., removal). Same basic physics rules apply.

I am 100% with you in theory, but can you explain about video?
It seems proper test.

Maybe tire compound 'viscosity' does not matter too much in cold temp?
Or there is more in the tire grip then just softer compound?