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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N20 (228i) / B46 (230i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning 228i Exhaust Mods

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      06-25-2018, 08:48 AM   #23
SteveInfante
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I've been trying to find one up here in the Northwest (Portland, Seattle) area and there are none. Any leads on someone selling and shipping it out this way?
Cheapest and best sounding, in my opinion, for the 228i is a muffler delete.

I personally think swapping to the 235i muffler leaves it too quiet.

When you pair the delete with a catless down pipe it's ridiculous loud though. Unless you are into the loud ones.
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      06-25-2018, 10:53 AM   #24
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When you pair the delete with a catless down pipe it's ridiculous loud though. Unless you are into the loud ones.
Muffler delete suggestion assumes people won't go with a catless down pipe. I don't think many people with a 228i will.

Not to get off topic but, personally I wouldn't go to a catless downpipe on a 228i. My experience over the years seems to be the gains are negligible from catless vs catted itself and stem more from the tunes. The engineers at BMW, Ford, Dodge, etc have designed pretty decent flowing catalytic converters since the 80's when they were first implemented. In my opinion it isn't worth the cost or headaches of going catless. If I wanted to go for all out hp, I wouldn't start with a 228i. For the extra cost to go catless, you can get more power with the 235i instead and not have the headaches of CEL, Emissions, Tunes, swapping parts etc. (Just a quick search shows around me used 228i and 235i are near the same prices.)
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      06-25-2018, 04:15 PM   #25
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Muffler delete suggestion assumes people won't go with a catless down pipe. I don't think many people with a 228i will.

Not to get off topic but, personally I wouldn't go to a catless downpipe on a 228i. My experience over the years seems to be the gains are negligible from catless vs catted itself and stem more from the tunes. The engineers at BMW, Ford, Dodge, etc have designed pretty decent flowing catalytic converters since the 80's when they were first implemented. In my opinion it isn't worth the cost or headaches of going catless. If I wanted to go for all out hp, I wouldn't start with a 228i. For the extra cost to go catless, you can get more power with the 235i instead and not have the headaches of CEL, Emissions, Tunes, swapping parts etc. (Just a quick search shows around me used 228i and 235i are near the same prices.)
Since we're off topic.

I will spend way less money on the upgrades than a new car. It's a daily. A fun daily at that. Making an already fun car even more fun is more fun when it's paid off. I won't be replacing it unless it dies catastrophic death.
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      06-26-2018, 10:06 AM   #26
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Since we're off topic.

I will spend way less money on the upgrades than a new car. It's a daily. A fun daily at that. Making an already fun car even more fun is more fun when it's paid off. I won't be replacing it unless it dies catastrophic death.
My daily is a 2018 Scat Pack Challenger, I could've bought an R/T and upgraded it to Scat Pack power levels, but would've spent more than the Scat Pack, and not been backed by a full factory warranty.

The 228 is my wife's daily, and weekend car being a convertible. Had I wanted to make loads of power, it would be better to go with the 235i. I've seen both for sale near me for about the same price, my wife just wanted a convertible and didn't see a 235i convertible for sale.

The thing to remember is efficiency and durability. To get a 228i to 235i power levels will take extra boost, downpipes, intercoolers, etc. All of which, and then some, are needed to increase the power levels to a stock 235i, and all of which add increased stress to internal components. Increased boost increases compression, needs higher octane and an adjusted AFR to prevent detonation, non-catted downpipes lean of AFR compounding issues with increased boost, as do upgraded intercoolers allowing for denser cold air, causes further leaning out of AFR. Recipes for disaster if not tuned properly, and mail order tunes never are as no two engines are the same.

While I enjoy working on my cars, I don't see a point in spending more money for the same thing. Especially when increasing the boost involves software tuning and voids every engine warranty there is, all tunes do. And when you tune out your O2 sensors and CEL for the non-catted downpipe, you've voided the warranty on the engine. Now lets say that increased boost by 3.5lbs, plus the leaned out AFR by having the de-catted downpipe, because it will lean the AFR as it flows more freely, and the upgraded intercoler keeping IATs down for denser air and yet again leaner AFR, if not tuned properly for WOT and part throttle applications causes a melted piston. You're screwed. Now you have a large repair bill because BMW will not cover any of it. Even if you re-flash to stock, and put all your stock parts back on, BMW can see when the computer is re-flashed, a date stamp is written into the software code, so if your software says it was loaded in June 2018 but your car is a 2015, and no records of it being flashed by BMW for a update in June it is a big red flag.

These are all reason to not get a 228i if you're trying to make power equal to or close to a 235i. In my opinion, the 228i has plenty of power for what it is anyway and doesn't need an increase. Gains from down pipes are negligible, this has been proven time and time again on numerous vehicles, the gains come from the tuning on the car vs stock being tuned more for part throttle applications vs WOT on a dyno. It really isn't worth the risk or cost involved for 20hp more than stock. Not to mention the smell of raw unburned fuel is somewhat annoying when going catless. I have no cats on my motorcycles or my Trans Am and the smell is a bit annoying when sitting in traffic, it's something I live with in my older vehicles as I don't sit in traffic much in them, but a brand new car I wouldn't personally want to smell like that. I had longtube headers, and no cats on my Procharged C5 Z06 and the smell in traffic with the windows up and A/C on was not pleasant, so much so that I put some high flow cats on to get rid of it. Lost no hp either when I put them on.
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Last edited by KB34; 06-26-2018 at 12:06 PM..
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      06-26-2018, 02:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hwntime View Post
I've been trying to find one up here in the Northwest (Portland, Seattle) area and there are none. Any leads on someone selling and shipping it out this way?
Cheapest and best sounding, in my opinion, for the 228i is a muffler delete.

I personally think swapping to the 235i muffler leaves it too quiet.

Yeah, I don't care for the sound as I'd rather have it quiet. I'm going for the dual outlet look.
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      06-27-2018, 05:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB34 View Post
My daily is a 2018 Scat Pack Challenger, I could've bought an R/T and upgraded it to Scat Pack power levels, but would've spent more than the Scat Pack, and not been backed by a full factory warranty.

The 228 is my wife's daily, and weekend car being a convertible. Had I wanted to make loads of power, it would be better to go with the 235i. I've seen both for sale near me for about the same price, my wife just wanted a convertible and didn't see a 235i convertible for sale.

The thing to remember is efficiency and durability. To get a 228i to 235i power levels will take extra boost, downpipes, intercoolers, etc. All of which, and then some, are needed to increase the power levels to a stock 235i, and all of which add increased stress to internal components. Increased boost increases compression, needs higher octane and an adjusted AFR to prevent detonation, non-catted downpipes lean of AFR compounding issues with increased boost, as do upgraded intercoolers allowing for denser cold air, causes further leaning out of AFR. Recipes for disaster if not tuned properly, and mail order tunes never are as no two engines are the same.

While I enjoy working on my cars, I don't see a point in spending more money for the same thing. Especially when increasing the boost involves software tuning and voids every engine warranty there is, all tunes do. And when you tune out your O2 sensors and CEL for the non-catted downpipe, you've voided the warranty on the engine. Now lets say that increased boost by 3.5lbs, plus the leaned out AFR by having the de-catted downpipe, because it will lean the AFR as it flows more freely, and the upgraded intercoler keeping IATs down for denser air and yet again leaner AFR, if not tuned properly for WOT and part throttle applications causes a melted piston. You're screwed. Now you have a large repair bill because BMW will not cover any of it. Even if you re-flash to stock, and put all your stock parts back on, BMW can see when the computer is re-flashed, a date stamp is written into the software code, so if your software says it was loaded in June 2018 but your car is a 2015, and no records of it being flashed by BMW for a update in June it is a big red flag.

These are all reason to not get a 228i if you're trying to make power equal to or close to a 235i. In my opinion, the 228i has plenty of power for what it is anyway and doesn't need an increase. Gains from down pipes are negligible, this has been proven time and time again on numerous vehicles, the gains come from the tuning on the car vs stock being tuned more for part throttle applications vs WOT on a dyno. It really isn't worth the risk or cost involved for 20hp more than stock. Not to mention the smell of raw unburned fuel is somewhat annoying when going catless. I have no cats on my motorcycles or my Trans Am and the smell is a bit annoying when sitting in traffic, it's something I live with in my older vehicles as I don't sit in traffic much in them, but a brand new car I wouldn't personally want to smell like that. I had longtube headers, and no cats on my Procharged C5 Z06 and the smell in traffic with the windows up and A/C on was not pleasant, so much so that I put some high flow cats on to get rid of it. Lost no hp either when I put them on.
I totally see your point and I'm not trying to argue as to who is right or wrong as everyone should do as they please with their own car. All I'm trying to say is, for me at least, I'm capable and willing to bulletproof my N20 later on down the line if I need to. I may just do a full engine rebuild in about 24,000 miles as I will hit the 100,000 mile mark and it's a big toy at that point. The F80 motor could end up in there one day, who knows. I have other cars to drive should I need to as well. I don't depend on BMW for repairing anything on my car. At the most they give me an oil filter once in a while. They aren't even on my radar.

Is it more work? Yes. Is it "worth it" to most people. Probably not. There are trade offs with anything someone chooses to do or not do with any car these days. The Bimmerworld team used the N20 platform in their racing cars but had to adhere to certain sanctioned rules and couldn't do certain things to the motor. This caused them to have to rebuild after every 3rd or 4th race. I'm not bound by those sanctions so the sky is the limit.

Cheers!
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