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      05-02-2018, 10:16 AM   #1
CXRS
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Questions about the reliability of 228i/328i w/ xDrive.

So for my first post I hope I'm not asking too much that has already been answered. I have spent a few hours browsing the forums, and haven't found much in the way of answers for my questions.

I have been looking into upgrading from a 2012 Subaru Outback, and have been looking at a 228i xDrive. My car has every option equipped, including the H6(and just a few very minor handling mods). I put a good 25k on my car a year, and will be keeping this pace with my next car. I was curious about how well the n20 and the driveline holds up, and if there are any specific things to watch out for. I know older BMWs need a new water pump around the 100k mark, is this still true for modern ones? Are there any issues that are persistent with these cars that I should be concerned about? I am looking at ones with under 50k on the clock, and plan on selling it before the used BMW warranty is up, but I still cannot afford the downtime that comes along with major issues.

Also, if anyone has any experience going from Subaru to BMW, I would appreciate your input on the difference in the AWD. I know the ins and outs of the system I have now, and it performs incredibly well in snow, mud, dirt, and gravel. It's also particularly good in low speed corners, since it's a proper AWD system and not part time. I am not sure how I feel about sacrificing the capability for the comfort, and would definitely look elsewhere if the AWD isn't capable enough. I'm mostly concerned how the AWD transitions and if it changes the bias mid-corner or anything like that.

Thank you!
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      05-02-2018, 10:51 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by CXRS View Post
So for my first post I hope I'm not asking too much that has already been answered. I have spent a few hours browsing the forums, and haven't found much in the way of answers for my questions.

I have been looking into upgrading from a 2012 Subaru Outback, and have been looking at a 228i xDrive. My car has every option equipped, including the H6(and just a few very minor handling mods). I put a good 25k on my car a year, and will be keeping this pace with my next car. I was curious about how well the n20 and the driveline holds up, and if there are any specific things to watch out for. I know older BMWs need a new water pump around the 100k mark, is this still true for modern ones? Are there any issues that are persistent with these cars that I should be concerned about? I am looking at ones with under 50k on the clock, and plan on selling it before the used BMW warranty is up, but I still cannot afford the downtime that comes along with major issues.

Also, if anyone has any experience going from Subaru to BMW, I would appreciate your input on the difference in the AWD. I know the ins and outs of the system I have now, and it performs incredibly well in snow, mud, dirt, and gravel. It's also particularly good in low speed corners, since it's a proper AWD system and not part time. I am not sure how I feel about sacrificing the capability for the comfort, and would definitely look elsewhere if the AWD isn't capable enough. I'm mostly concerned how the AWD transitions and if it changes the bias mid-corner or anything like that.

Thank you!
If you're concerned about reliability, I would suggest against going to a BMW. My wife only puts about 7000 miles a year, and I bought her a CPO 228xi. We're in GA and don't see much snow, I would not have bought the x-drive has it not been such a good deal. But from my experience, the 228xi is more rear wheel drive bias vs a Subaru symmetrical AWD, in sport mode, it'll get a little tail happy if I'm really pushing it. Feels more like a RWD that they added a transfer case too than a true AWD. With the mileage that you do 25K a year, I would not personally get the BMW. You could buy a brand new WRX for the price of the used 228xi. Most modern cars are reliable but then again, I don't think many people have gotten the 2 series up to 100K+ miles to really tell the reliability. It is a newer platform, Subaru has a well known amazing AWD system, and good reliability. When something breaks on a BMW and something will break, something will break on a Subaru, but the likelihood of it being a more expensive repair on a BMW is much greater. But to answer your question, I personally do not think my 228xi would be good in the snow, mud, gravel, etc. I would not drive mine in that anyway that's what my truck is for, the 228xi is a luxury sports convertible, not a rally car like a Subaru. Therefore, I do not believe BMW designed the AWD system to be good in those conditions, wouldn't want to chance it either, it's definitely not as good as the Subaru.
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      05-02-2018, 12:27 PM   #3
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I wouldn't be going out through mud deliberately in it, I have a long driveway that occasionally gets a small amount of washout. I guess my main concern is that it won't kick around on me if the roads are a bit wet and I'm driving enthusiastically. I have a fun car that keeps me on edge, and I like my dailies to be a bit calmer and more linear in power delivery with a fixed torque distribution. I'd like to be able to let loose a bit every now and again, and hit the autocross every few weeks, so if the oversteer is manageable, it's not a huge dealbreaker for me.
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      05-02-2018, 01:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CXRS View Post
I wouldn't be going out through mud deliberately in it, I have a long driveway that occasionally gets a small amount of washout. I guess my main concern is that it won't kick around on me if the roads are a bit wet and I'm driving enthusiastically. I have a fun car that keeps me on edge, and I like my dailies to be a bit calmer and more linear in power delivery with a fixed torque distribution. I'd like to be able to let loose a bit every now and again, and hit the autocross every few weeks, so if the over steer is manageable, it's not a huge deal breaker for me.
I can't 100% speak to that as I don't daily it. My wife does who drives much less enthusiastically than me. But I would say, it is manageable, but there are better choices. I don't think it is smart to drive any car enthusiastically on wet roads. My Challenger has over 500hp and my Trans Am has over 700hp. They get sideways when it's dry, driving them hard in wet roads is stupid, both have summer tires. On wet roads it's less about the awd and more about the balance of the car, amount of traction, and the tires ability to dissipate water. My wife's old Audi TTS (MK2) was awd but driving hard on wet roads and it would spin around, it was more biased towards rwd than awd. Can't speak to the 228xi as I haven't had it long enough and have never driven it in the rain. Come to think of it, my wife has only driven it in the rain once, if it calls for rain she drives my truck.

Personally, the biggest thing is that you said you drive 25K a year, the will blow away a warranty really fast. I would think twice about a BMW with that kind of mileage a year. My wife drives 10 miles round trip to work. We occasionally drive the BMW on nice weekend days. But we probably won't ever put more than maybe 7.5k miles on the car a year. I'm OK with buying a BMW due to the fact that she will barely put miles on it and she wanted something sporty, it was a good deal. If she drive more I would highly reconsider a BMW.
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      05-02-2018, 05:16 PM   #5
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I wouldn't shy away from the mileage requirement. I drive my car pretty hard as my daily and mountain road fun car. I bought my car with 2700 miles on it June 2015 and have 72k miles on it now. Do the math. I don't have the Xi but I do have the N20 and 6MT/Premium Package/Cold weather package/Adaptive Xenons. I have had more than 25 cars and this is the best daily I have ever had. Take care of it and it will last a very long time. I do my own maintenance so I save tons of money versus having a shop do it.
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      05-03-2018, 03:53 PM   #6
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I DK what KB34 is on about, but I'd have to totally disagree - my 228 is a fantastic 4-seasons sports car.

I have a 228iX that I DD all year long, in Upstate NY winters (winter/summer tire sets - all seasons will not do as well). This car is fantastic in the snow, just phenomenal. My first AWD, so can't directly compare to others, but I've never been stuck, rarely even worried about it. I don't go off-road to know about mud, but assume it would rock there as well (but not enough ground clearance to really go off-road). In the dry, it also rocks hard, and has an AWD dynamic, does not feel RWD to me (pulls itself around the turns somewhat, and easier to get into that 4wheel drift mode). Just back from my first track day, and it did quite well there - certainly more car than I have skills for at this point. As far as reliability, I've not had any serious issues but I'm only at about 20k, and all minor stuff was under warranty (bulb, rear pads). I would certainly keep it warrantied with extended coverage, since everything is wicked expensive.

You'll want to trial it yourself, but overall what I've heard from the few Subie fans I know who have been in a 2 series is that the 2 pulls much harder, less peaky power, and much less 'boy-racer' feeling - if you want that rough and jumpy feeling, you might want to stick with an STI, but the 228 is much more solid and refined (and it pulls like a train from about 2k up). Also probably easier to find a variety of traditional aftermarket stuff for the Subie if you like modding extensively, especially for the x-drives (BMW suspension parts are more available for RWD models).
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      05-03-2018, 04:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
I DK what KB34 is on about, but I'd have to totally disagree - my 228 is a fantastic 4-seasons sports car.

I have a 228iX that I DD all year long, in Upstate NY winters (winter/summer tire sets - all seasons will not do as well). This car is fantastic in the snow, just phenomenal. My first AWD, so can't directly compare to others, but I've never been stuck, rarely even worried about it. I don't go off-road to know about mud, but assume it would rock there as well (but not enough ground clearance to really go off-road). In the dry, it also rocks hard, and has an AWD dynamic, does not feel RWD to me (pulls itself around the turns somewhat, and easier to get into that 4wheel drift mode). Just back from my first track day, and it did quite well there - certainly more car than I have skills for at this point. As far as reliability, I've not had any serious issues but I'm only at about 20k, and all minor stuff was under warranty (bulb, rear pads). I would certainly keep it warrantied with extended coverage, since everything is wicked expensive.

You'll want to trial it yourself, but overall what I've heard from the few Subie fans I know who have been in a 2 series is that the 2 pulls much harder, less peaky power, and much less 'boy-racer' feeling - if you want that rough and jumpy feeling, you might want to stick with an STI, but the 228 is much more solid and refined (and it pulls like a train from about 2k up). Also probably easier to find a variety of traditional aftermarket stuff for the Subie if you like modding extensively, especially for the x-drives (BMW suspension parts are more available for RWD models).
What I'm on about... I answered his questions with my opinion and made it very clear they were opinions.

First he asked how it would compare to the Subaru in handling snow, mud, dirt, and gravel. I gave my opinion, I think the Subaru is much better as it's AWD system was developed for Rally, and then transferred to the street cars. The 228xi, was not developed for rally, has hardly any ground clearance, and when I have driven it, I have seen it is more RWD biased, which is completely understandable considering the car is standard as RWD. The power on the 228xi is not perfectly distributed to all the wheels like a Subaru. It is probably more like 70% Rear and 30% Front.

I also gave my opinion that driving enthusiastically on wet roads is stupid. It is dangerous for you and other drivers. And on wet roads, AWD is not as important as good tires to maintain traction and the balance and stability of the car.

Also, he asked about repairs and issues with these cars, such as the old BMW electric water pump issues. I gave my honest opinion, based on the mileage he said he will be driving. Repairs on these cars are not cheap, and BMW has a history of not having the greatest quality control. Based on the mileage the OP said he would drive 25K a year, and he is looking for something under 50K miles, I said I think he would be better off thinking twice about a BMW. If he is concerned about reliability, he shouldn't buy a BMW. He should stick with a Subaru.

Also, if he is considering cost, which anyone buying a car should. A brand new WRX can be had for the price of a used 228xi. Not to mention better interest rates and resale value because it is a new car and not pre-owned. And he will have much more time in his factory warranty.

And on a side note, a well tuned Subie, will pull so much better than the 228. Not to mention it has the lovely boxer rumble.
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      05-04-2018, 08:25 AM   #8
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My thinking is if there's enough people that chime in with their experiences, and they're mostly good ones, then I may just have to look more seriously into it. On the weekends I may be looking at 3 hour road trips, otherwise I would skip over the BMW and go straight to another Subaru. But having been in a WRX, I'm not a huge fan of the interior comfort it offers vs my current ride. My mother has an F30 335i and I love that car, but with my daily commute, I almost never need more than 300 hp. Irrelevant story, I've taken a low 300whp range car on my daily trip, and the only time I ever needed to go past 3/4 throttle was when I had an angry brodozer trying to block me on a straightaway.

I just am thinking an n20 would suffice, especially in a (relatively) low weight car such as that. Before I jump into one, I just want to be sure it'll hold up.
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      05-04-2018, 09:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB34 View Post
What I'm on about... I answered his questions with my opinion and made it very clear they were opinions.

First he asked how it would compare to the Subaru in handling snow, mud, dirt, and gravel. I gave my opinion, I think the Subaru is much better as it's AWD system was developed for Rally, and then transferred to the street cars. The 228xi, was not developed for rally, has hardly any ground clearance, and when I have driven it, I have seen it is more RWD biased, which is completely understandable considering the car is standard as RWD. The power on the 228xi is not perfectly distributed to all the wheels like a Subaru. It is probably more like 70% Rear and 30% Front.

I also gave my opinion that driving enthusiastically on wet roads is stupid. It is dangerous for you and other drivers. And on wet roads, AWD is not as important as good tires to maintain traction and the balance and stability of the car.
I don't go crazy on wet roads, there's nothing good to be gained from that. I like a bit of extra traction because the roads around where I live are a bit on the crappy side, and it's nice having some front wheel bias to straighten the car out in corners if I'm giving it the beans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB34 View Post
Also, he asked about repairs and issues with these cars, such as the old BMW electric water pump issues. I gave my honest opinion, based on the mileage he said he will be driving. Repairs on these cars are not cheap, and BMW has a history of not having the greatest quality control. Based on the mileage the OP said he would drive 25K a year, and he is looking for something under 50K miles, I said I think he would be better off thinking twice about a BMW. If he is concerned about reliability, he shouldn't buy a BMW. He should stick with a Subaru.
I'm seeing this more and more every day that I'm looking. I've found a few used 228s for around 15-18k that look to be in pretty good condition, with relatively low mileage. But the more I learn about BMW, the more it seems like the kind of car you buy used when you don't absolutely need to get somewhere every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB34 View Post
Also, if he is considering cost, which anyone buying a car should. A brand new WRX can be had for the price of a used 228xi. Not to mention better interest rates and resale value because it is a new car and not pre-owned. And he will have much more time in his factory warranty.

And on a side note, a well tuned Subie, will pull so much better than the 228. Not to mention it has the lovely boxer rumble.
I'd be all over a WRX if the insurance was cheaper. But alas, it inspires too much confidence in people who have no business driving a Prius, let alone a sports car. The 228 is right in my price range, and I know it could have all the capabilities of a WRX, but with more luxury and cheaper insurance, at the cost reliability.

And sadly, no more boxer rumble on these new cars, the twin scroll takes care of that. Just sounds like any other high performance 4cyl now. Thank you for your input, I think I'm actually gonna stray away from a Bimmer for the time being. With the kind of duty cycle I put my cars through, I have a feeling a 228(or maybe even a 235) would make a great third car down the road.
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      05-04-2018, 09:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CXRS View Post
My thinking is if there's enough people that chime in with their experiences, and they're mostly good ones, then I may just have to look more seriously into it. On the weekends I may be looking at 3 hour road trips, otherwise I would skip over the BMW and go straight to another Subaru. But having been in a WRX, I'm not a huge fan of the interior comfort it offers vs my current ride. My mother has an F30 335i and I love that car, but with my daily commute, I almost never need more than 300 hp. Irrelevant story, I've taken a low 300whp range car on my daily trip, and the only time I ever needed to go past 3/4 throttle was when I had an angry brodozer trying to block me on a straightaway.

I just am thinking an n20 would suffice, especially in a (relatively) low weight car such as that. Before I jump into one, I just want to be sure it'll hold up.
I think it would do the job for what you're looking for, but I would look into major engine components that have been known to fail on BMWs in the past, and base your decision on that. I really like my 228xi. My wife loves it, she wanted a sporty convertible, and it was a good deal. I will say, that if the car was not CPO and did not have an additional 3 years warranty, I would not have bought it. I would have bought her something else. Now due to you looking for a sporty AWD car, there really are not that many options without sky rocketing the price. The 228xi is a good choice, WRX another, VW Golf R, or Audi, but if getting Audi the standard models are not that sporty. Beyond that, there are none that really come to mind. What I think you really should do is go drive anything you are looking into. For example, I have a race prepped Miata my wife races from time to time with me. She thought she wanted a new RF Miata, because it was a sporty "convertible" until I made her drive one, lacks power and driving daily is pretty boring, you're not at redline every day like on track.

Again, not trying to steer you away from a BMW, just stating my opinion that there may be better choices for you.
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      05-04-2018, 09:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CXRS View Post
I don't go crazy on wet roads, there's nothing good to be gained from that. I like a bit of extra traction because the roads around where I live are a bit on the crappy side, and it's nice having some front wheel bias to straighten the car out in corners if I'm giving it the beans.

I'm seeing this more and more every day that I'm looking. I've found a few used 228s for around 15-18k that look to be in pretty good condition, with relatively low mileage. But the more I learn about BMW, the more it seems like the kind of car you buy used when you don't absolutely need to get somewhere every day.

I'd be all over a WRX if the insurance was cheaper. But alas, it inspires too much confidence in people who have no business driving a Prius, let alone a sports car. The 228 is right in my price range, and I know it could have all the capabilities of a WRX, but with more luxury and cheaper insurance, at the cost reliability.

And sadly, no more boxer rumble on these new cars, the twin scroll takes care of that. Just sounds like any other high performance 4cyl now. Thank you for your input, I think I'm actually gonna stray away from a Bimmer for the time being. With the kind of duty cycle I put my cars through, I have a feeling a 228(or maybe even a 235) would make a great third car down the road.
That was my thinking when I bought the 228. It wouldn't be driven everyday, or on long trips. It will probably get under 7.5K miles a year, and still under warranty. If something was to happen, it will most likely be fixed under warranty, and I have another car for my wife to drive. My wife actually found the car and I was skeptical about a BMW, wasn't even looking at them for her, but I did some thinking and figured it would be OK as basically a weekend car and a fun car for her daily. Now when it is out of warranty, will I keep it, I'll let you know in 3 years lol. My thinking now is that I won't, it'll probably disappear once the warranty is close to being up just as her Audi TTS did.
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      05-28-2018, 07:21 PM   #12
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According to Comsumer Reports the 2 series rates about 92% while the 3 series is in the mid 70s. The 7 series rates about 5% which is 10% too high but Consumer Reports can’t assign negative numbers.

So BMW’s lowest cost offering is its most reliable car and its most expensive line has 1970s British reliability. It’s freaking mind blowing that a car costing close to a buck 50 even in US bucks might blow its first engine in less than 30,000 KM, which when translated into miles sounds like a lemon law lawsuit.
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