[grocerylist]

VRSF received the defective intercooler todya. I've still received no response from Top Gear Solutions to several emails regarding my refund in a week now.

Buyer beware with both VRSF and Top Gear Solutions.

Go with X-PH or N54 Tuning if you want BMW performance parts.

[AmuroRay]

I'm guessing they are waiting on VRSF to process your return to issue a refund, but it's pretty crappy that they haven't communicated that to you. Keep us posted on the new IC and how the returns turns out. Sorry about the trouble dude, it seems like a headache.

[selbyp93]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

VRSF received the defective intercooler todya. I've still received no response from Top Gear Solutions to several emails regarding my refund in a week now.

Buyer beware with both VRSF and Top Gear Solutions.

Go with X-PH or N54 Tuning if you want BMW performance parts.

Thanks for sharing mate, sorry you had to go through this. Not gonna consider VRSF anymore

[grocerylist]

I finally got around to installing my ARM Motorsports intercooler. Everything I read said it could be installed from underneath and I tried for a while but eventually decided to remove the front bumper. After taking the bumper off, I removed the fan shroud hoping to reinstall it later. It wasn't fun taking the bumper off but far easier to install the intercooler. Once I had the intercooler installed, looking at the fan shroud, there's no way there was enough room to reinstall the fan shroud and I have no idea how people install the ARM intercooler from underneath as it seems there's not enough room with the fan shroud in place.

I hope without the fan shroud directing air towards the intercooler and radiators that they all are still efficient at cooling.

I couldn't be bothered with taking any logs beforehand. There aren't a lot of places near me where I can get full rpm pulls in 3rd, 4th and 5th gears. Hopefully in the future I can find somewhere to log the ARM intercooler that's safe and where I won't get arrested.

[AmuroRay]

/The shroud helps direct air and makes it more efficient. Are you sure you couldn't fit it

[grocerylist]

I had intended to reinstall the shroud figuring it'd help direct air better but I don't see that there would be anyway to do so without significant trimming. I'm not even sure how it'd be able to be trimmed, in order to keep the mounting tabs which attach to the beams that hold the crash bar. The air shroud is fairly deep, at least 6" deep. With the ARM Motorsports intercooler being so tall and because it gets positioned in front of the radiator and some other radiator (or maybe the AC Condenser?) there was no room for the fan shroud. The front of the intercooler comes out just about even with the brake air ducts.

Before I had removed the bumper and air fan shroud, I was trying my best to shove the intercooler up there and make it fit but it was hitting against the shroud and then I noticed it was doing some scraping and fin damage to the radiator/condenser above and in front of the coolant radiator so then I decided I'd have to take the bumper off and eventually the air shroud.

I feel like the air shroud would have helped with directing and forcing air through the intercooler but it seems that it could also block air from hitting the top of the taller portion of the ARM intercooler.

[XutvJet]

The shroud definitely helps. It's ridiculous that you can't fit the shroud and had to pull the bumper to instill this IC. Does this IC not even have tabs to hold the fan shroud in place? The joys of aftermarket parts.

[grocerylist]

I probably should have gone with BMS but I liked the idea of the ARM intercooler having more frontal surface area and that people reported ARM was one of the better performing intercoolers for the money. I didn't know that the ARM intercooler had silicone coupler hoses which I'm not a fan of and it also didn't have the side tabs or the fan tabs to help positioning that other intercoolers have.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I probably should have gone with BMS but I liked the idea of the ARM intercooler having more frontal surface area and that people reported ARM was one of the better performing intercoolers for the money. I didn't know that the ARM intercooler had silicone coupler hoses which I'm not a fan of and it also didn't have the side tabs or the fan tabs to help positioning that other intercoolers have.

I’ve never heard this mentioned myself, but we are M235is be 335/435is.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’ve never heard this mentioned myself, but we are M235is be 335/435is.

ARM's website says it's a direct fit for F-series 3/4 series cars with no trimming, cutting, or removal of the bumper, and does mention list the M235 in the fitment guide. I imagine most folks read at as it's a direct fit for the M235, but that doesn't appear to be the case. The ARM website doesn't show tabs on the IC for the fan assembly either which is pretty chintzy, IMO.

The ARM IC definitely seems geared towards max surface area and performance under hard driving, but compromises in other areas to keep the price low.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I probably should have gone with BMS but I liked the idea of the ARM intercooler having more frontal surface area and that people reported ARM was one of the better performing intercoolers for the money. I didn't know that the ARM intercooler had silicone coupler hoses which I'm not a fan of and it also didn't have the side tabs or the fan tabs to help positioning that other intercoolers have.

The ARM is better than the BMS - the BMS has it's own issue with the fan should tabs being off (as noted by F87source)

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I had intended to reinstall the shroud figuring it'd help direct air better but I don't see that there would be anyway to do so without significant trimming. I'm not even sure how it'd be able to be trimmed, in order to keep the mounting tabs which attach to the beams that hold the crash bar. The air shroud is fairly deep, at least 6" deep. With the ARM Motorsports intercooler being so tall and because it gets positioned in front of the radiator and some other radiator (or maybe the AC Condenser?) there was no room for the fan shroud. The front of the intercooler comes out just about even with the brake air ducts.

Before I had removed the bumper and air fan shroud, I was trying my best to shove the intercooler up there and make it fit but it was hitting against the shroud and then I noticed it was doing some scraping and fin damage to the radiator/condenser above and in front of the coolant radiator so then I decided I'd have to take the bumper off and eventually the air shroud.

I feel like the air shroud would have helped with directing and forcing air through the intercooler but it seems that it could also block air from hitting the top of the taller portion of the ARM intercooler.

Thanks for the pictures - I just followed up with the OP here:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1869712&page=3

About your installation woes. 0-2 on ICs man, this is insane.

[AmuroRay]

Followed up - The other person who bought one confirmed that it does not connect to the bottom of the intercooler.

I also checked ER - and this seems to be the case with theirs;
http://evolutionracewerks.com/index....geViewsIndex=1



You are putting the underside shield back on right, when you commented on ducting, this is what I assumed you meant initially.

[grocerylist]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Followed up - The other person who bought one confirmed that it does not connect to the bottom of the intercooler.

I also checked ER - and this seems to be the case with theirs;
http://evolutionracewerks.com/index....geViewsIndex=1



You are putting the underside shield back on right, when you commented on ducting, this is what I assumed you meant initially.

Yes, I did reinstall the underbody shield. I omitted the radiator shroud in the front. I emailed ARM over the weekend to confirm with them on the install details and let them know as far as I could tell that the radiator shroud wasn't possible to reinstall in the 2er. Still waiting to hear back from them.

Looking at the 335i post you posted, because of the 1-2" gap between the fan and intercooler, I'm wondering if I'll have issues when idling. I guess that might only be a problem if I were to drive the car hard then stop quickly idling for a while as the fan won't be able to suck air through the intercooler as efficiently.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

Yes, I did reinstall the underbody shield. I omitted the radiator shroud in the front. I emailed ARM over the weekend to confirm with them on the install details and let them know as far as I could tell that the radiator shroud wasn't possible to reinstall in the 2er. Still waiting to hear back from them.

Looking at the 335i post you posted, because of the 1-2" gap between the fan and intercooler, I'm wondering if I'll have issues when idling. I guess that might only be a problem if I were to drive the car hard then stop quickly idling for a while as the fan won't be able to suck air through the intercooler as efficiently.

I doubt that this will be the case - the bottom cover is part of the shrouding helps direct the airflow. On the stock IC, the core is connected to the bottom of the fan, but on a stepped IC - none of the stepped portion touches the fan/fan shroud at all.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

Looking at the 335i post you posted, because of the 1-2" gap between the fan and intercooler, I'm wondering if I'll have issues when idling. I guess that might only be a problem if I were to drive the car hard then stop quickly idling for a while as the fan won't be able to suck air through the intercooler as efficiently.

This ARM IC is totally half-assed. The fan needs to be up against the IC to be effective. The fan must be close (i.e. 1" or less) to the IC, radiator, etc. and sealed around the edges in order to generate negative/positive pressure (depending on the design). It's basically worthless sitting inches off the IC.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This ARM IC is totally half-assed. The fan needs to be up against the IC to be effective. The fan must be close (i.e. 1" or less) to the IC, radiator, etc. and sealed around the edges in order to generate negative/positive pressure (depending on the design). It's basically worthless sitting inches off the IC.

The stepped portion of the IC never touches the fan ever, no matter the brand, because it's (the fan) mounted off the rear of the intercooler.

In fact, bigger intercoolers like the Evo 3 are 7.5" in depth, pushing the fan further away from the upper stepped portion of the core, versus something like Evo 1 which is about 4-4.5" deep.

No one is claiming the Evo 1 can outcool the Evo 3 in ANY scenario. No one is claiming higher coolant and oil temps as a result either.

The only reason the fan is useful on a stepped intercooler is because the core is less effective the deeper it is (effectiveness on cooling is only 1/4th as efficient ) so the added airflow of the fan may help , but at lower speeds.

On a core that's about 3" deep, there really isn't a benefit.

[XutvJet]

I'm not concerned about the stepped portion of aftermarket ICs. The issue here is that the fan cannot be mounted correctly so that it can work as designed. The fan pulls air through the IC and radiator. Fans must be approximately 1" off the exchanger and mostly sealed or else efficiency is significantly impacted. For hard driving it's probably fine. Around town? I doubt it.

If the fan can't sit flush then I would bet the fan assembly is rubbing stuff up top and the upper fan brackets are under tension. That fan is over $500. ARM was simply lazy here.

I feel bad for the OP because this part was sold fits like stock. That certainly isn't the case.

[grocerylist]

I hadn't considered that the fan could possibly be moving around stressing the fan bracket. Now I'm wondering if I should try to make some sort of spacer to keep it stationary relative to the intercooler and maybe some siding to cover the gap between the fan and intercooler.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I'm not concerned about the stepped portion of aftermarket ICs. The issue here is that the fan cannot be mounted correctly so that it can work as designed.

Well, the fan and shroud are still mounted and working. And again, do you have any basis - logs or otherwise to prove that the cooling ability is actually diminished as a result?

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The fan pulls air through the IC and radiator. Fans must be approximately 1" off the exchanger and mostly sealed or else efficiency is significantly impacted. For hard driving it's probably fine. Around town? I doubt it.

Again, only the bottom most portion of the fan actually contacts the intercooler. And again, this is really only an advantage to a smaller stock sized intercooler (no step) to help pull air through at low speeds because of loss in cooling efficiency for intercoolers that have more depth,

This isn’t a problem for the ER/ARM because they are only 3” thick.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If the fan can't sit flush then I would bet the fan assembly is rubbing stuff up top and the upper fan brackets are under tension. That fan is over $500. ARM was simply lazy here.

There is nothing lazy about it - it fits literally the exactly same way the ER intercooler sits, and that’s one of the better ICs on this platform. Can you find me a post from someone complaining about the way their ER intercooler fits, or issues with it cooling? How about it’s fan shroud failure?

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I feel bad for the OP because this part was sold fits like stock. That certainly isn't the case.

It’s sold as it fits and perform well - which it does. All you did is point out hypotheticals how how you think it should work and be designed.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I hadn't considered that the fan could possibly be moving around stressing the fan bracket. Now I'm wondering if I should try to make some sort of spacer to keep it stationary relative to the intercooler and maybe some siding to cover the gap between the fan and intercooler.

ER has a bracket at the bottom of their IC that allows the shroud to hook into it. But it’s still 3”+ away from the core. Like the actual brackets that hold the IC itself, I don’t see the radiator or the bracket failing. Some people don’t even mount the bracket to their ICs because if tab alignment issues.

If you want to, you can - but I don’t think it’s necessary, especially considering it’s actually mounted to the radiator itself (which is what hold it in place on the top and sides)

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by grocerylist

I hadn't considered that the fan could possibly be moving around stressing the fan bracket. Now I'm wondering if I should try to make some sort of spacer to keep it stationary relative to the intercooler and maybe some siding to cover the gap between the fan and intercooler.

If you're going to stick with the ARM IC, then yes, look into getting some somewhat dense foam and cut it to form a somewhat tight seal between the fan assembly and radiator and IC. It shouldn't be too difficult to do. Having that will help improve efficiency of the fan and help it do its job.

[XutvJet]

AmuroRay -

Just because people aren't reporting issues, doesn't mean the cooling system is working as designed.
My guess is the fan will be running more and the electric water pump will be running harder.

You are off your rocker if you think everything is working as designed and is what BMW engineers intended. Also, I challenge you to find me information stating that it's ok to have the fan sitting so far off the exchangers and efficiency isn't being lost.

ER and ARM half-assed their designs. They choose not to set the inlet and outlets correctly to get the fan assembly to sit properly.

Bigger isn't always better and race car parts rarely work well for street cars. These ICs are evidence of that.