[FancyDan]

With my first ever track day fast approaching, I'm looking for any advice or tips that this forum has to share.

Just some info on the car: it's a stock RWD M240i with staggered MPSS tires and M Perf LSD. It has about 8k miles. Tires are still in fairly good shape although the rears are noticeably more worn than the fronts (though still have decent tread left).

The only thing I was planning on doing to prep was to do a fresh oil change. My last oil change was done at 5k. There will be a full inspection done of the car before the first session where the lug nuts will be torqued to spec. Anything else that I should do?

What tire pressures should I run on the track? The factory pressures are 38-45 which seem really high compared to what I'm reading in this forum. But maybe someone will say that they are adequate for a car with stock suspension geometry.

Lastly, I know brakes are a hot topic when it comes to tracking. I don't plan on changing them for this first day considering that it's a beginner group and I'm not interested in lap times.

Appreciate the help!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by FancyDan

With my first ever track day fast approaching, I'm looking for any advice or tips that this forum has to share.

Just some info on the car: it's a stock RWD M240i with staggered MPSS tires and M Perf LSD. It has about 8k miles. Tires are still in fairly good shape although the rears are noticeably more worn than the fronts (though still have decent tread left).

The only thing I was planning on doing to prep was to do a fresh oil change. My last oil change was done at 5k. There will be a full inspection done of the car before the first session where the lug nuts will be torqued to spec. Anything else that I should do?

What tire pressures should I run on the track? The factory pressures are 38-45 which seem really high compared to what I'm reading in this forum. But maybe someone will say that they are adequate for a car with stock suspension geometry.

Lastly, I know brakes are a hot topic when it comes to tracking. I don't plan on changing them for this first day considering that it's a beginner group and I'm not interested in lap times.

Appreciate the help!

Which club are you running with, and at which track?

A few tips:

0) Listen to your instructor – his/her principal assignment is to keep you and your car safe.

1) In addition to asking here, you can ask your instructor for his/her suggestion for cold and hot tire pressures. I haven't run MPSS on the track, but if you were my student in a beginner's run group, I'd recommend 30 psi all around before going out on the track and would expect to see 35-36 psi hot, where hot = the pressures your gauge reads immediately after you stop the car at your parking spot back in the paddock. Your instructor will understand when just after stopping the car you jump out to take and record your tire pressures. Your instructor may have advice to offer regarding those pressures; pay attention to what he/she says.

If you find that you need to add pressure to one or more tires and you didn't bring something with which to do it, someone in the paddock will have the means to help you. Borrowing tools until you figure out what all you need to bring with you to the track is normal.

2) Bring a torque wrench and a 17mm socket. Plan on re-torquing your wheel bolts to 104 ft. lbs. after your tires and brakes have cooled off and before you and your instructor go out again. If you haven't done this before, it wouldn't hurt to practice it in the week before you leave for the track.

3) Stay hydrated by drinking more water than you think is necessary. This is a good idea whether or not the day is warm or hot. Drivers get dehydrated on cold days, too, and it takes time to get fully re-hydrated. You can use the color of your urine to guide you: clear = very good; slightly yellow = okay; yellow or dark = drink a bottle now, and start working on another bottle.

4) If you're running with a club that has classroom sessions, you'll find that you're pretty busy all day long. Pace yourself so that you get as much as possible out of the last session of the day. Many students lose a significant amount of their focus by that time and are no longer learning. It costs a fair amount to go to the track, and you'll want to get the most out of the experience.

5) Make it a point to go out at least once with your instructor in his/her car. If that's not offered to you, be sure to ask. If for some reason your instructor can't take you out, ask the chief instructor for someone else to take you out. This is a critical part of getting the most out of your day.

You'll learn quite a bit just by not having to do all the behind-the-driver's-wheel work and can soak in more about car placement, use of the brakes, and how the car feels when being pushed in a way that it can't be on the street. Notice how smooth the instructor is in his/her use of the steering wheel, brakes, and throttle.

6) Regardless of run group, it's busy on a race track, and one thing it's easy to lose track of are the flag stations. You will forever be a safer driver if you learn to glance at every flag station just as it first comes into view. This takes a little practice to start with, but getting in the habit early could well save you from an incident. Your instructor can help you with this.

You can start on this by reviewing the meanings of the flag colors that will be used at your event. Hopefully those are detailed in the event material your club is providing you; if not, query the chief instructor by email – he/she should be identified somewhere in the registration pages/material.

7) It's a good idea to take a close look at all four tires between sessions; it can be convenient to do that when you're re-torquing your wheel bolts.

Due to having 225 street tires up front and little or no negative camber, your car is capable of a fair amount of understeer. You may find that you're wearing the outside of your front tires to an inordinate degree. If that happens, make sure you retain enough tire so that you can still drive home on them. If this comes up, your instructor is available to help you evaluate the situation. For example, he/she may recommend changes to your use of the throttle and steering wheel to lighten the load on the front tires. Generally, adjustments like this are called "driving around the problem".

8) Have fun; after all, that's the whole point, isn't it!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by FancyDan

With my first ever track day fast approaching, I'm looking for any advice or tips that this forum has to share.

Just some info on the car: it's a stock RWD M240i with staggered MPSS tires and M Perf LSD. It has about 8k miles. Tires are still in fairly good shape although the rears are noticeably more worn than the fronts (though still have decent tread left).

The only thing I was planning on doing to prep was to do a fresh oil change. My last oil change was done at 5k. There will be a full inspection done of the car before the first session where the lug nuts will be torqued to spec. Anything else that I should do?

What tire pressures should I run on the track? The factory pressures are 38-45 which seem really high compared to what I'm reading in this forum. But maybe someone will say that they are adequate for a car with stock suspension geometry.

Lastly, I know brakes are a hot topic when it comes to tracking. I don't plan on changing them for this first day considering that it's a beginner group and I'm not interested in lap times.

Appreciate the help!

MPSS is not the best tire for the track.... sidewall it pretty soft and the shoulders will roll over a lot.... you would need to run fairly high PSI to try to prevent that... like 40psi cold... keep in mind stock psi used to be 33-36 no idea how/why it's now 38-45

Problem is not only the soft sidewall but lack of camber so if you don't want to keep destroying tires you might want to get the M4 LCAs and/or camber plates but LCAs should be good enough and you avoid the noise issues with camber plates

mark the shoulder with chalk before the sessions and monitor when you are done...if after the session the chalk is gone past the shoulder then you either need to increase the PSI or you need to change the way you are driving and brake sooner and take the turns slower

[MarcoZandrini]

Make sure you change the brake fluid. I use Motul RBF600. You'll need 4 bottles as the new fluid has to travel from the reservoir to the caliper. It ain't cheap. Use either a pressure or vacuum bleeder. Do not you the use the pedal pump method as this isn't good for the master cylinder. Also, put a flashlight behind the maser cylinder reservoir to see how much fluid is in the reservoir. Add fluid to keep the fluid level above half full. Be advised that brake fluid can damage paint.

[FancyDan]

Appreciate all the feedback!

Which club are you running with, and at which track?

This will be an open track day at NJMP, beginner group, no passing, all laps behind a pace car. No club, but they will have classroom instruction and 4 20-minute on track sessions.

I'm definitely ok with giving up some tire grip to help preserve the sidewall. The point here is just to have some fun and not care about lap times, but I do have to be able to get home on the same tires. Using chalk to mark the sidewall is a good tip, I'll try that. I'll start with 38-40 psi cold up front. Any thoughts if I should run higher pressures in the rear, or just match what is up front?

As for the brakes, I think I want to stick with stock pads and fluid for this first event. I'm just trying to get a feel for what tracking is all about and I plan on taking it really easy on the brakes. I have some experience with brake fade driving lesser cars around twisty mountain roads, and I have no problem backing off or even ending the day early if I sense that brakes will be an issue.

[aerobod]

Even if sticking with stock fluid, it should be no older than 6 months. The track events I attend often have a stipulation of maximum 6 months since the last brake fluid change that you have to sign off on as part of the self tech inspection, that the car has been safety checked before the event.

[smchuck]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Which club are you running with, and at which track?

A few tips:

0) Listen to your instructor – his/her principal assignment is to keep you and your car safe.

1) In addition to asking here, you can ask your instructor for his/her suggestion for cold and hot tire pressures. I haven't run MPSS on the track, but if you were my student in a beginner's run group, I'd recommend 30 psi all around before going out on the track and would expect to see 35-36 psi hot, where hot = the pressures your gauge reads immediately after you stop the car at your parking spot back in the paddock. Your instructor will understand when just after stopping the car you jump out to take and record your tire pressures. Your instructor may have advice to offer regarding those pressures; pay attention to what he/she says.

If you find that you need to add pressure to one or more tires and you didn't bring something with which to do it, someone in the paddock will have the means to help you. Borrowing tools until you figure out what all you need to bring with you to the track is normal.

2) Bring a torque wrench and a 17mm socket. Plan on re-torquing your wheel bolts to 104 ft. lbs. after your tires and brakes have cooled off and before you and your instructor go out again. If you haven't done this before, it wouldn't hurt to practice it in the week before you leave for the track.

3) Stay hydrated by drinking more water than you think is necessary. This is a good idea whether or not the day is warm or hot. Drivers get dehydrated on cold days, too, and it takes time to get fully re-hydrated. You can use the color of your urine to guide you: clear = very good; slightly yellow = okay; yellow or dark = drink a bottle now, and start working on another bottle.

4) If you're running with a club that has classroom sessions, you'll find that you're pretty busy all day long. Pace yourself so that you get as much as possible out of the last session of the day. Many students lose a significant amount of their focus by that time and are no longer learning. It costs a fair amount to go to the track, and you'll want to get the most out of the experience.

5) Make it a point to go out at least once with your instructor in his/her car. If that's not offered to you, be sure to ask. If for some reason your instructor can't take you out, ask the chief instructor for someone else to take you out. This is a critical part of getting the most out of your day.

You'll learn quite a bit just by not having to do all the behind-the-driver's-wheel work and can soak in more about car placement, use of the brakes, and how the car feels when being pushed in a way that it can't be on the street. Notice how smooth the instructor is in his/her use of the steering wheel, brakes, and throttle.

6) Regardless of run group, it's busy on a race track, and one thing it's easy to lose track of are the flag stations. You will forever be a safer driver if you learn to glance at every flag station just as it first comes into view. This takes a little practice to start with, but getting in the habit early could well save you from an incident. Your instructor can help you with this.

You can start on this by reviewing the meanings of the flag colors that will be used at your event. Hopefully those are detailed in the event material your club is providing you; if not, query the chief instructor by email – he/she should be identified somewhere in the registration pages/material.

7) It's a good idea to take a close look at all four tires between sessions; it can be convenient to do that when you're re-torquing your wheel bolts.

Due to having 225 street tires up front and little or no negative camber, your car is capable of a fair amount of understeer. You may find that you're wearing the outside of your front tires to an inordinate degree. If that happens, make sure you retain enough tire so that you can still drive home on them. If this comes up, your instructor is available to help you evaluate the situation. For example, he/she may recommend changes to your use of the throttle and steering wheel to lighten the load on the front tires. Generally, adjustments like this are called "driving around the problem".

8) Have fun; after all, that's the whole point, isn't it!

This is fantastic advice. for a first track day, your car will be fine. chalking the tires is a good idea and simple and will let you know if you have any serious problems.

It looks like your setup is follow the leader without anyone in your car instructing you. The track days I normally do, are in the 300-400 dollar range with in car instructions. the in-car makes a huge difference. there is point by passing zones for the beginners group so slower drivers or cars don't hold up faster cars.

Ive become hooked and think its a great addiction.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by FancyDan

Appreciate all the feedback!



This will be an open track day at NJMP, beginner group, no passing, all laps behind a pace car. No club, but they will have classroom instruction and 4 20-minute on track sessions.

I'm definitely ok with giving up some tire grip to help preserve the sidewall. The point here is just to have some fun and not care about lap times, but I do have to be able to get home on the same tires. Using chalk to mark the sidewall is a good tip, I'll try that. I'll start with 38-40 psi cold up front. Any thoughts if I should run higher pressures in the rear, or just match what is up front?

As for the brakes, I think I want to stick with stock pads and fluid for this first event. I'm just trying to get a feel for what tracking is all about and I plan on taking it really easy on the brakes. I have some experience with brake fade driving lesser cars around twisty mountain roads, and I have no problem backing off or even ending the day early if I sense that brakes will be an issue.

I would probably just run same pressure front and back... usually manufacturers set higher PSI on the rear to induce understeer...so increasing psi in the front and reducing in the back should reduce it...

just remember to brake in a straight line and do most of it before turning...

Thing with pace cars is that usually the 2nd or 3rd car follow some decent line but after that the rest of the cars will probably be all over the place

In car instruction is much better but in this virus times I can see why it's not possible...

[Maynard]

In between sessions, and especially right after coming off track, do not put parking brake on, and try not to sit with brakes on - the pads will sort of melt onto the rotors and you get problems. You also want to measure pads beforehand so you will know how much you are using; beyond about 50% you will likely start boiling brake fluid (less insulation from pad). Rears will wear more than fronts, since they are also working for TCS (do keep it at least in Sport+ until you get more seat time).

Also good to open the hood and let her idle for 5 minutes after you come in, to keep things circulating and cooling.

I think 40psi cold would be way too much, but if you start there be sure to keep your in-car pressure screen on, and pull out if you get near the upper limit (I think about 50psi for the Michelins?). I'm with dradernh that my best grip comes at about 36-38psi HOT, which usually means starting cold at 30 and then bleeding some air for later sessions. I do not think it is possible to fully compensate for the lack of camber, or if you do, you are basically running on a round tire with little grip anywhere. Just accept that you're going to be chewing thru front tires at a rate that will now match the rears.

Belt trick for better seating: Figure out a good track seating position (usually more upright, closer to wheel than typical street ride; ask yr instructor). Then for your session run the seat back 4-6", cinch your lap tight, and flick the shoulder belt to get the inertia-lock to hold. Keeping tension on belt to keep it locked, move your seat back into position and you are now sort of locked in. May take some practice; and it is surely the prime use for those programmable seat setting buttons. I also set the forward button with my 'track mirrors' setting.

On the drive home you can begin shopping for pads, brake fluid, tires, Scroth Quickfit, and more track days. Camber plates are also popular, but getting into the NVH range. Perhaps I'll see you up at the Glen later this year. It is habit forming, you have been warned.

[pikcachu]

Yes, you can't really compensate for lack of camber.... but increasing the PSI will balloon the tire a bit so they will roll less... not ideal but better than killing an otherwise usable tire

also on counter-clock wise tracks i usually run the right side about 2psi lower than the left as right side will get hotter... measured with a pyrometer and 2psi is a good rule of thumb

[drdreydel]

Few obs having just completed my first hpde in my m240 at Lime Rock
- definitely change brake fluid. These cars are heavy and counter to your expectations, beginners are actually harder on brakes
- I found the stock pads to ultimately be a confidence limiter. Mine didn't seem to be bedded in quite right until second session and I was definitely not pushing as hard as a result of just not trusting the pads
- yeah PSS will wear on shoulders (Lime Rock is very hard on left front in particular). I dropped to 32/35 (from 35/39) and found pressures back to the OEM spec by the end of each session.

Otherwise enjoy (and follow tips up top about cooling off after each session). The car is a blast on track!

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by drdreydel

Few obs having just completed my first hpde in my m240 at Lime Rock
- definitely change brake fluid. These cars are heavy and counter to your expectations, beginners are actually harder on brakes
- I found the stock pads to ultimately be a confidence limiter. Mine didn't seem to be bedded in quite right until second session and I was definitely not pushing as hard as a result of just not trusting the pads
- yeah PSS will wear on shoulders (Lime Rock is very hard on left front in particular). I dropped to 32/35 (from 35/39) and found pressures back to the OEM spec by the end of each session.

Otherwise enjoy (and follow tips up top about cooling off after each session). The car is a blast on track!

Factory Bembo pads are good for a few laps, and then they overheat. Check the section on brakes. There are many great option for pads. I went with Performance Friction 08s. I have a post in the thread on pads in the brake section. These pads are unbelievably good on the track.

[PeanuKeeyes]

All the info here is very solid. I’m still a newbie myself and one of the best exercises an instructor had me do on my first warm up lap was have me call out the manned flag stations as they came into view. “Flagger on my left, flagger on my right” I highly recommend this as you get going and taking it slow until you have a successful lap calling them all out correctly. — just stay sharp, listen to your body and listen to your instructor and leave the ego behind as much as possible. Have a great time!

[Maynard]

Not by accident that those flag stations are right where you need to be looking to visualize up ahead, too. It really helped on the few occasions that there actually was something to watch out for ahead (spin out, blown car creeping to the pits).

[FancyDan]

Just had my HPDE event yesterday and it was a blast! These cars were far more capable than I thought they would be and I had absolutely zero issues with tires and brakes thanks to the tips offered here. In truth, we were very far from the car's limits. The pace that was set meant that I could not go WOT on the straights (maybe about 50%) and I could afford to brake early and carefully to protect the brakes. Regardless, it was still a hell of an experience and now I'm just itching for the next one! I'll probably make a new thread with my takeaways to hopefully help out any other people that are feeling nervous about their first track day like I was.

[Miata13]

Originally Posted by PeanuKeeyes

All the info here is very solid. I’m still a newbie myself and one of the best exercises an instructor had me do on my first warm up lap was have me call out the manned flag stations as they came into view. “Flagger on my left, flagger on my right” I highly recommend this as you get going and taking it slow until you have a successful lap calling them all out correctly. — just stay sharp, listen to your body and listen to your instructor and leave the ego behind as much as possible. Have a great time!

I too am new (again!) from track driving events having done them many years ago in an Integra and Miata. I have a car very similar to yours but with AT. I too am concerned about my Track Package MPSS tires. At a recent autocross event, I had to run the fronts at 4 lbs over the stock 32 lbs and still was suffering from rollover. Ended up starting with 40 lbs cold in front and o.e. spec 36 lbs in the rear; they got to 44 lbs hot in front. I have not yet had a track day but will in two weeks. I know autocross event murder o.e. tires.
Would appreciate any TP suggestions you might pass along. TIA!

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Miata13

I too am new (again!) from track driving events having done them many years ago in an Integra and Miata. I have a car very similar to yours but with AT. I too am concerned about my Track Package MPSS tires. At a recent autocross event, I had to run the fronts at 4 lbs over the stock 32 lbs and still was suffering from rollover. Ended up starting with 40 lbs cold in front and o.e. spec 36 lbs in the rear; they got to 44 lbs hot in front. I have not yet had a track day but will in two weeks. I know autocross event murder o.e. tires.
Would appreciate any TP suggestions you might pass along. TIA!

well there is not much you can do with PSS than running 40 cold...

you need m4 LCA's and/or stiffer sidewall tires

[PeanuKeeyes]

Originally Posted by Miata13

I had to run the fronts at 4 lbs over the stock 32 lbs and still was suffering from rollover.

Yup, a familiar story!
Street tires are just not suitable with this car on track or Autox, unfortunately. Hankook RS4’s have not let me down yet after several track days. I don’t have camber plates or the M4 lower control arm swap. The stiff sidewall of the Hankook’s makes a really massive difference. Combine a set of those with a track Alignment, zeroing out the toe in front. That being said, after awhile, these too will start to wear sidewall and you’ll want to address camber. After 7 events with my current set of RS4’s, I finally ordered Millway street camber plates which are reportedly very durable, easy to install and have minimal NVH. I should be able to finish out the season with this set of tires, but we’ll see.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by PeanuKeeyes

Yup, a familiar story!
Street tires are just not suitable with this car on track or Autox, unfortunately. Hankook RS4’s have not let me down yet after several track days. I don’t have camber plates or the M4 lower control arm swap. The stiff sidewall of the Hankook’s makes a really massive difference. Combine a set of those with a track Alignment, zeroing out the toe in front. That being said, after awhile, these too will start to wear sidewall and you’ll want to address camber. After 7 events with my current set of RS4’s, I finally ordered Millway street camber plates which are reportedly very durable, easy to install and have minimal NVH. I should be able to finish out the season with this set of tires, but we’ll see.

When are you planning on installing these? Would like a review to include NVH and adjustment range.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Maynard

Not by accident that those flag stations are right where you need to be looking to visualize up ahead, too. It really helped on the few occasions that there actually was something to watch out for ahead (spin out, blown car creeping to the pits).

Absolutely. I was at Virginia International Raceway, running with the Tar Heel Chapter. I was on the back straight with a Mustang a couple hundred feet in front of me. The Mustang had a supercharged engine. The right head gasket blew and all of a sudden there was a huge steam cloud. The car was running straight water for coolant, btw. Checked the flag on the left and immediately stood on the brakes and put the 4 ways on. The Mustang's right exhaust was squeaky clean, courtesy of a steam cleaning! The owner wasn't too upset as he was going to upgrade the engine. It was his track car.

[PeanuKeeyes]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

When are you planning on installing these? Would like a review to include NVH and adjustment range.

I will be having them installed by Munich Motorsports in East Windsor, CT mid June, along with powerflex LCA and TA bushings. The range maxes out at -2.5 camber with stock suspension. — I will post a review when it’s all set up and I’ve put some miles on them.

[Maynard]

Most of my experience was w/ ContiExtremeContacts or Bridgestone Potenza s007's with the 228. Big vote for the Potenza's - less wear despite being a 240 wear tire, less heat-gain, and better feel, likely all d/t stiffer carcass. I thought it was good advice to stick with street tires for learning, as they let you make mistakes at lower speed, and with a little more predictable breakaway; R-comps will let you go much faster, but often they are hiding your mistakes. For me, I had the best handling when I could keep HOT pressures around 34-36. Start around 31 or 32, and bleed off pressure right when you come off track when still hot. IIRC, it would take 2 cycles (sessions) to stabilize, and a long lunch break between sessions would sometimes let things cool too much. I think for HPDE that starting at 40psi would be a mistake, even if it preserves some tread; once the tire goes overpressure it is mainly riding on the center - less edge wear, but also a lot less grip. Autocross probably doesn't heat them up as bad, so things may work very differently there. And don't forget to air them back up for the drive home, as they will cool considerably and end up way too low.