[BetweenTheWheels]

Hi all

I mentioned when I returned to this forum that I recently returned to BMW as well after a stint in Merc-land.

Here is the first of many videos exploring why I am falling in love with my 228i. Enjoy!


The Best All Around Sports Car On Earth?

[MichaelL]

Nice video. I enjoyed it and liked the process of elimination of various cars. I have a very similar cars to you, a 2015 228i with the track package and the same color combo. Mine is a 6 spd manual. Only real weakness is the steering feel, otherwise a great, fun to drive car that gets good gas mileage as well. Bought it new and think about other cars from time to time, but can't come up with a better, realistic option. Look forward to your next videos.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by MichaelL

Nice video. I enjoyed it and liked the process of elimination of various cars. I have a very similar cars to you, a 2015 228i with the track package and the same color combo. Mine is a 6 spd manual. Only real weakness is the steering feel, otherwise a great, fun to drive car that gets good gas mileage as well. Bought it new and think about other cars from time to time, but can't come up with a better, realistic option. Look forward to your next videos.

Same sentiments here! Same year/engine/MT/track package as yours...such a great "sweet spot!" To address your steering complaint, do the LCA swap with the M2. Turner Motorsports has the kit. Huge improvement!

There's nothing I would replace mine with either...even now 5+ years in.

[BetweenTheWheels]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Same sentiments here! Same year/engine/MT/track package as yours...such a great "sweet spot!" To address your steering complaint, do the LCA swap with the M2. Turner Motorsports has the kit. Huge improvement!

There's nothing I would replace mine with either...even now 5+ years in.

Thanks Michael and Sportstick for checking out the vid.

As for the LCA replacement, I've heard how beneficial it is. What's the biggest difference you notice? I understand what you mean by steering feel, but is the control arm shorter and therefore is turn in more prompt or is it a 'tightness'? I'm wondering how detectable it is. Thanks!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BetweenTheWheels

Thanks Michael and Sportstick for checking out the vid.

As for the LCA replacement, I've heard how beneficial it is. What's the biggest difference you notice? I understand what you mean by steering feel, but is the control arm shorter and therefore is turn in more prompt or is it a 'tightness'? I'm wondering how detectable it is. Thanks!

It is very detectable, more prompt and feels tighter....both! My Service Advisor who managed the installation at the dealership was worried the additional degree of negative camber would make the steering "darty". Not at all...it was all a good change! I think every MSport or Track Package should have included this change. The change of the contact patch makes the car respond instantly, eliminating what some describe as the "dead spot" on-center. The overall degree of vehicle turn seems constant, but it responds much more quickly. Very much more fun/responsive/entertaining! It makes the car feel more "alive". I think it was the single best modification I made among those in my signature. The only downside I've been told is a small loss of tread life...well worth it meanwhile.

[Poochie]

I envy your color Sportstick

It's a shame BMW only limited the signature 1M color to the 228i; WTF is the logic in that decision.. :

[ss-mjs]

It would seem that this is only an option on manual transmission vehicles, yes?

Originally Posted by BetweenTheWheels

Thanks Michael and Sportstick for checking out the vid.

As for the LCA replacement, I've heard how beneficial it is. What's the biggest difference you notice? I understand what you mean by steering feel, but is the control arm shorter and therefore is turn in more prompt or is it a 'tightness'? I'm wondering how detectable it is. Thanks!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ss-mjs

It would seem that this is only an option on manual transmission vehicles, yes?

I believe no. Just limited to rear wheel drive. When I check the "fit my car" function, the only failure is with XDrive. Transmission is not shown as a factor.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/

[ss-mjs]

You're correct. I tend to "bundle" the 8AT and xDrive. All xDrives are 8AT, but not all 8AT's are xDrives!

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I believe no. Just limited to rear wheel drive. When I check the "fit my car" function, the only failure is with XDrive. Transmission is not shown as a factor.

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/

[BetweenTheWheels]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

It is very detectable, more prompt and feels tighter....both! My Service Advisor who managed the installation at the dealership was worried the additional degree of negative camber would make the steering "darty". Not at all...it was all a good change! I think every MSport or Track Package should have included this change. The change of the contact patch makes the car respond instantly, eliminating what some describe as the "dead spot" on-center. The overall degree of vehicle turn seems constant, but it responds much more quickly. Very much more fun/responsive/entertaining! It makes the car feel more "alive". I think it was the single best modification I made among those in my signature. The only downside I've been told is a small loss of tread life...well worth it meanwhile.

Well... that all sounds too good to pass up. I guess my mod list just got bigger !

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BetweenTheWheels

Well... that all sounds too good to pass up. I guess my mod list just got bigger !

I realize my prior comments focused on the change in steering response. I left out another benefit. The additional negative camber also increases the size of the outboard front contact patch when cornering, resulting in the car feeling more "planted" and stable during cornering.

[bucketfoot]

I am considering moving to a 2 (if I can find a good enough deal to talk the better half into).

My thoughts have been focused on an M235 or M240, but seeing this thread I thought I would ask the question on why someone would pick a 228/230 instead.

The first two reasons that come to mind are lower cost and better gas mileage (the top reasons I went with the 28 over the 35 in my current BMW).

I would really be interested in hearing from the OP and others why they opted for a 228 (or 230) instead of the 235/240.

[Maynard]

Those (cost/mileage) weren't really on my list of considerations - I think if they are then you would be better served with another brand. I think the 228 had everything I needed, and a little better balanced, so for me there was no strong reason to go to the 235. The extra power would be nice at rare times, but I'm routinely dialing myself back with the 4 cylinder on the street. On track I'm not good enough yet to need or miss the extra power, it would just mean I make my mistakes going 20mph faster. And I'd put in a plug for the x-drives; a bit heavier and harder to mod, but that awd dynamic is compelling.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

I would really be interested in hearing from the OP and others why they opted for a 228 (or 230) instead of the 235/240.

This question has been discussed over the years, and our sincere answers always provoke the most unempathetic in the community to suggest we are fabricating or rationalizing our inferred economic constraint. Always amazing how many cannot understand or accept points of view other than their own...in this case their lust for more power, which is always "better" and never enough.

Neither of the factors you mention played any role in my decision. I ordered my car to spec, and could have had anything in the showroom, if I wished. I drove larger, heavier, and faster BMWs that day, and none compelled me to want to drive again, other than the 228i. I prize balance and agility over simple power. The 4 cylinder has weight as well as output, and given its performance, hits the sweet spot of relieving the front end of the car from being burdened while moving it along quite briskly. The result is a more nimble feel; the car is more agile, just like the original formula which gave rise to the 2002 decades ago. The LCA swap I've discussed enhances that sensation further.

Others may value power more, or claim they don't feel the difference, both of which are fine. However, here is an interesting take on this issue, both the link to the entire article and a relevant excerpt:

https://jalopnik.com/the-bmw-228i-is...buy-1662847106

"The 228i is better. I really believe that. For one thing, at 3,300 pounds it's more than 200 pounds lighter than its six-cylinder sibling, and it really feels it. It's more nimble, more tossable, less nose-heavy.

The 228i has this BRZ-esque agility to it that makes it feel sharper than the M235i. Like most new BMWs it has variable drive modes that tweak throttle response and steering feel, but I found it best in the default Comfort mode; in that setting the steering has a dancer-like grace to it that doesn't need any artificial tightening. It feels plenty balanced on its own.

In fact, let's talk about balance for a moment. That's what's so great about the 228i. You may think you're losing out by opting for the 2.0-liter turbo four over the M235i's 3.0-liter inline six, but you're not."

If I were to buy a new 2 Series today, I would choose the 230i, manual, track handling package, essentially the same car, all over again. My son, on the other hand, being half me, half his mom, and all himself, just ordered a 2020 M2! And, he didn't even choose the orange paint!

EDIT: Forgot to mention two more factors for me: This reminds me pleasantly of driving cars from the past, such as the 2002 and E21 320i. And, as a bit of a historian, I pay homage to the BMW HQ building, the architecture of which honors the technology upon which the company was built...4 cylinder engines.(even if not inline).

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by Maynard

The extra power would be nice at rare times, but I'm routinely dialing myself back with the 4 cylinder on the street. On track I'm not good enough yet to need or miss the extra power, it would just mean I make my mistakes going 20mph faster. And I'd put in a plug for the x-drives; a bit heavier and harder to mod, but that awd dynamic is compelling.

This is pretty much where I am now, but the other side of the coin.

For the street there really isn't any good reason (other than being a whole lot of fun) to have the 6 cylinder over the 4 cylinder.

However on the track I've hit the stage where even with a JB4 the N20 is absolutely starting to hold me back. Now part of that may well be vehicle related (I currently have an E84 X1). But given that I am faster than cars I have no business being faster than through the twisties, lack of corner exit acceleration going into straight stretches is becoming a limiting factor.

I'm sure that going to the 2 alone would let me improve my corner performance, but I have little doubt I would in the end start hitting the same limitations I currently have run into.

No need to plug AWD for me. If I go this route the car will be my daily driver and AWD is a requirement

[BetweenTheWheels]

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

I am considering moving to a 2 (if I can find a good enough deal to talk the better half into).

My thoughts have been focused on an M235 or M240, but seeing this thread I thought I would ask the question on why someone would pick a 228/230 instead.

The first two reasons that come to mind are lower cost and better gas mileage (the top reasons I went with the 28 over the 35 in my current BMW).

I would really be interested in hearing from the OP and others why they opted for a 228 (or 230) instead of the 235/240.

Having owned two six cylinder BMWs in my past, both Z4s and incredibly tail happy and powerful, plus a host of other powerful sixes, I was biased for years thinking the lowest cylinder count that could make me happy was six.

When I challenged my biases, which were actually based on my perceptions of four-cylinder engines from two/three decades ago, I realized that turbo fours from Audi, BMW and other cars that I had driven over the last few years, were fantastically smooth, torquey and had plenty of power for my needs on and off track.

The balance of a lighter engine, just about all of which is behind the front shock mounts in the 228, is what makes this car so lively. Secondly, matching engine rev power to the speed of a transmission is also part of the experience, IMO. The BMW tuning of the Z8 transmission is the best non manual I've ever driven. Full stop. In my Z4 35is, my head would literally snap back against the headrest for each shift when getting on the power in that car. I have found the same quickness of shifting in the 228 without the tires breaking free in the first three gears which lends a sense of control and confidence when getting the car up to speed while accelerating energetically. Is 5.4 seconds slower than 4.3 seconds zero 60? Yes, but my ass can't feel that. As such, my 228 is no less exciting from an 'analogue' perspective. As an example of a brilliant turbocharged six where the pairing of engine and transmission isn't done so well was my Mercedes C450 AMG. That engine was a monster but the transmission sucked and just was not as quick as the Z8 used by BMW.

Finally, the 228 is tunable and has a healthy aftermarket. The car is getting 400 hp in many tuned examples found easily online which shows what the N 20 engine is capable of and the fact that this car can grow with its driver.

For me, the 235 never aesthetically did it for me and it slotted oddly in the line up as 'less than' it's full-blown big brother, the M2. I love the idea of going with the leaner and meaner 228 and modifying it in time to be a more powerful and capable version of itself.

I sort of frowned on the idea of going with the 228 when the notion first struck me many months ago. I have found that it has exceeded my expectations.

[bucketfoot]

Originally Posted by BetweenTheWheels

Finally, the 228 is tunable and has a healthy aftermarket. The car is getting 400 hp in many tuned examples found easily online which shows what the N 20 engine is capable of and the fact that this car can grow with its driver.

I had not thought about the fact that there are numerous tuning options for the N20 in a 2 series.

There are very limited options for the N20 in an X1, and this has actually been one of my driving factors in thinking I should go the 6 cylinder route.

Certainly something to think about...

[BetweenTheWheels]

Typo in my previous post... meant to note the tuned 228's are getting 300+. Which, in my mind, is ample.

[MichaelL]

I drove both the 235 and the 228 when I was shopping. I chose the 228. I liked the lighter feel, and the better gas mileage. The sound was better on the 235. It truly wasn't a financial decision, I picked the one I liked better. I don't track the car, I just drive it on the street. I felt I could drive the care hard and have fun and I wasn't going too fast, way over the speed limit.

Only way to tell is to drive them both, each person has to make their own decision. I have owned the car for just about 5 years and I don't have a desire to sell it. All the 2 series cars are very good, what other cars can really compete with them? None really. Can fit 4 people when needed, fun to drive, rwd, stick, all good stuff.

[XutvJet]

The choice of a 228i with a moonroof and auto is an odd one considering the OP' desire for the best all around sports car. The moonroof cuts down significantly on headroom (over 2") and adds 50lbs of weight in the worst possible place. The 8AT is a good performer but it too adds about 60lbs of additional weight over the 6MT AND does not deliver that connected driving experience that an euthusiast and purest would want from a sports car.

The issues I have with the 228 from a performance perspective are that:

1 ) The N20 motors are not reliable. They have serious timing chain issues. Buyer beware. If the chain fails, you're out a motor .

2) The N20/26 motors aren't built to the same level of durabiity as compared to an N55 or B58. They aren't as remotely reliable when tuned and many of them have been lost on the track. These motors are far more taxed with a DP and tune compared to the turbo 6s.

3) There is no factory option for an LSD. You can buy an aftermarket one, but you'll end up paying nearly twice as much as the M Performance LSD from BMW for the M235.

4) There isn't a ton more weight forward of the axle with the N55 compared to the N20/26. We're talking 1.5 cylinders being forward of the axle and the accessories. Maybe 50lbs compared to the 228.

5) The ZF 6MT in the M235 (same one as the M2-M4) is far more robust compared to Getrag 6MT in the 228.

6) The N20/26 lacking the additional heat exchangers found on the M235. Ideal for track driving.


IMO, the M235 is the better choice. The N55 in the M235 is factory modded (MPPK tune, forged crank), S55 forged rods, and S55 rod/crank bearings. The 2014+ N55 is quite reliable and robust. The MPE LSD is $2,000 and totally transforms the car. Simply adding the LSD, a MP4S square 245 width tire setup to address understeer/tire wear, stiffer rear springs, a DP, and a basic tune results in a car that delivers nearly all the performance of an M2 but with a bit better ride.

[BetweenTheWheels]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The choice of a 228i with a moonroof and auto is an odd one considering the OP' desire for the best all around sports car. The moonroof cuts down significantly on headroom (over 2") and adds 50lbs of weight in the worst possible place. The 8AT is a good performer but it too adds about 60lbs of additional weight over the 6MT AND does not deliver that connected driving experience that an euthusiast and purest would want from a sports car.

The issues I have with the 228 from a performance perspective are that:

1 ) The N20 motors are not reliable. They have serious timing chain issues. Buyer beware. If the chain fails, you're out a motor .

2) The N20/26 motors aren't built to the same level of durabiity as compared to an N55 or B58. They aren't as remotely reliable when tuned and many of them have been lost on the track. These motors are far more taxed with a DP and tune compared to the turbo 6s.

3) There is no factory option for an LSD. You can buy an aftermarket one, but you'll end up paying nearly twice as much as the M Performance LSD from BMW for the M235.

4) There isn't a ton more weight forward of the axle with the N55 compared to the N20/26. We're talking 1.5 cylinders being forward of the axle and the accessories. Maybe 50lbs compared to the 228.

5) The ZF 6MT in the M235 (same one as the M2-M4) is far more robust compared to Getrag 6MT in the 228.

6) The N20/26 lacking the additional heat exchangers found on the M235. Ideal for track driving.


IMO, the M235 is the better choice. The N55 in the M235 is factory modded (MPPK tune, forged crank), S55 forged rods, and S55 rod/crank bearings. The 2014+ N55 is quite reliable and robust. The MPE LSD is $2,000 and totally transforms the car. Simply adding the LSD, a MP4S square 245 width tire setup to address understeer/tire wear, stiffer rear springs, a DP, and a basic tune results in a car that delivers nearly all the performance of an M2 but with a bit better ride.

Interesting thoughts, and to each their own on which of these issues is valid or noteworthy for each usage case. I look forward to speaking to many of these points in an upcoming video I'll be sharing on these very topics.

So many items to discuss and I won't address them all here, but just a couple of quickies...

I'd suggest that to posit 50lbs doesn't matter much in a car's front end but is a discernible difference on top is a bit 'elitist car talk'. If one can't feel the 50 lb savings in a car's nose but CAN in a car's center of gravity, good for them. That driver is more skilled than me and I'll enjoy my moonroof, thank you.

Finally, words like 'purist' sort of make me smile when talk of manual transmissions occurs on forums. I've had manuals and autos in my performance cars and I have experienced and enjoyed first hand the connected sensations of shifting a car through its gears.

In a naturally aspirated 6 cylinder with ample horsepower running to the rear wheels of a two seater, I enjoyed rowing gears. Managing the control of torque and revs as well as playing with the agility of the car's rear end moving and shifting under power is a joy in that scenario. With a turbocharged car, I don't care who it is, no one shifts gears in a manual quickly enough to not interrupt turbos spooling up to keep the power band and boost consistent. Machine beats human. As much as we all vilify the 'automatic', a good one like the BMWs box means I can control power on the track, shift with paddles, steer and focus on my racing line. Is all of that enjoyable with a manual, too, yes. It's a different sort of experience and each is superior in its own way.

[4Hockey4]

I drove the 230i and enjoyed the car, had nice balance. I simple wanted more pull and was coming down from NOT buying the M2. Also the MT I drove, the turbo hesitation was too much for me....obviously some quick adjustments would change that...but wanted the lower RPM pull. I was also looking at Porsche and even the Mustang. Balance was nice, but few adjustments, and the balance will be fine in 235i also.

(opinion of someone that has 235i, but didn't buy nor own, 230i.)

Its a win/win, both great cars to drive. Good luck

I won't go deep in MT and AT. I spent many years in an auto, Mustangs, Trans Am, Vette etc. went BACK to MT....its different, and literally has renewed my enthusiasm to go further. Always a personal opinion and 8AT in 240i is amazing, but it'll never replace a MT...and I'm a novice, not an elitists. it will always be the best driving exp. to me, even if they go away forever.