[HP Autosport]

A little sneak preview for you guys on the new Vorshlag Camber Plates for your F2x F3x and F8x.



The tricky part was keeping the stack-up height of the camber plate + perch + radial bearing at the stock height, so the car isn't raised or lowered.

Vorhlag never made a camber plate + perch this short, but the new BMW top mounts are all going to this super short stack.

The new assembly uses a unique radial bearing and assembly procedure that lowers the stack up height of our assembly by nearly 40%. Very exciting - nobody else is doing this design as short or with a proper steel, sealed radial bearing for the spring perch. Other designs we've seen use a plastic radial bearing which has a very short lifespan. The spherical is in the upper bearing holder and allows the shaft to pivot relative to the plate. The spring pivots against the perch, just like the OEM top mount design BMW uses now. The large diameter billet upper spring perch fits the stock spring and also allows for re-using the factory rubber isolator above the spring.

Vorshlag will be installing these on a new M235i next week and then give him a few weeks of street and track driving before we finalize the designs and make a production run of CNC parts. Luckily there's no laser cut or other outside pieces they need, so they can machine this 100% in-house - no delays.

[ocN55]

I wish I could've done testing with them :/

I was actually waiting for Vorshlag to come out with camber plates for the f22

[rwalker]

does that radial bearing allow the perch to move, partially articulate, like the stock perch?

[Pparana]

Looks promising, similar bearing design to kmack. Hope it works out, I am kind of sold on my kmacks due to the the caster adjustment.

[jaboyd]

So will these work w/stock suspension as well as coil-overs?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by jaboyd

So will these work w/stock suspension as well as coil-overs?

Yes, but in order to go from stock to coilovers you must purchase new perches for the coilover you have in mind.

[Fasteddy1]

Will these be compatible with xdrive?

Thanks!

Pat

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Fasteddy1

Will these be compatible with xdrive?

Thanks!

Pat

Yes, I don't see why not. The spring profile at the top should be the same and the strut mount should be very similar as well.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by rwalker

does that radial bearing allow the perch to move, partially articulate, like the stock perch?

No and yes.

No, the spring does not articulate in this model. When we convert them for smaller diameter 60mm or 2.25" springs it will, but with the OEM spring it does not. This is acceptable with the larger diameter springs.

And yes, it is just like the stock perch. Any "articulation" you see in the stock perch is because the parts are rocking on each other or the stock bearing is coming apart. When loaded there is no spring articulation.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

No and yes.

No, the spring does not articulate in this model. When we convert them for smaller diameter 60mm or 2.25" springs it will, but with the OEM spring it does not. This is acceptable with the larger diameter springs.

And yes, it is just like the stock perch. Any "articulation" you see in the stock perch is because the parts are rocking on each other or the stock bearing is coming apart. When loaded there is no spring articulation.

Thanks for the clarification on the differences between the OEM plates vs coilover plates.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

No and yes.

No, the spring does not articulate in this model. When we convert them for smaller diameter 60mm or 2.25" springs it will, but with the OEM spring it does not. This is acceptable with the larger diameter springs.

And yes, it is just like the stock perch. Any "articulation" you see in the stock perch is because the parts are rocking on each other or the stock bearing is coming apart. When loaded there is no spring articulation.

Seems like the stock suspension (at static loading) runs really close to a buckling point of the spring that the stock perch+bearing combo accommodates with some lateral movement. The design of the stock perch is really curious. Have you ever seen this type of design elsewhere?

I'm anxious to get these plates on my car.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Seems like the stock suspension (at static loading) runs really close to a buckling point of the spring that the stock perch+bearing combo accommodates with some lateral movement. The design of the stock perch is really curious. Have you ever seen this type of design elsewhere?

I'm anxious to get these plates on my car.

Yes, actually all the recent BMW top mounts are designed with a similar perch. The bolt pattern and towers are different, but the perch design is similar or the same.

And this style perch design is being used by other manufacturers. Ford and GM are using it on some of their new cars including the Mustang, Camaro and some Cadillacs. I'm sure there are some grocery getters using it also, but I'm mainly interested in the models that are likely to see some track time.

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

Yes, actually all the recent BMW top mounts are designed with a similar perch. The bolt pattern and towers are different, but the perch design is similar or the same.

What is your opinion on why these perch/bearings have so much lateral play? It's surely a design choice, not an accident.

Originally Posted by modernbeat

...but I'm mainly interested in the models that are likely to see some track time.

My car sees a fair bit

[Pparana]

Is it possible, (maybe not on the stock springs looking at the photos) to adjust slots 45 degrees to add caster as you add camber, maybe a second set of mount holes, or reorientation of the cad file prior to making the g code?

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by Pparana

Is it possible, (maybe not on the stock springs looking at the photos) to adjust slots 45 degrees to add caster as you add camber, maybe a second set of mount holes, or reorientation of the cad file prior to making the g code?

No.

The dual ball-joint cars do not require any additional caster. Don't be sucked into thinking that what was good for previous designs is correct for the current design. The E36 is dying for more caster, and the E46 is only a touch better than the E36. But the E9x and more recent models have been great and don't need any more.

To elaborate on it a little further, we can't accomplish what you are asking for with another set of bolts around the perimeter. There is also an M10 stud inside the perimeter that attaches to the firewall brace. Reclocking the plate would move that stud away from the brace. We could add another hole for that stud, but it would be right where the upper bearing holder wants to travel. So it would be very difficult to do what you are asking.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

No.

The dual ball-joint cars do not require any additional caster. Don't be sucked into thinking that what was good for previous designs is correct for the current design. The E36 is dying for more caster, and the E46 is only a touch better than the E36. But the E9x and more recent models have been great and don't need any more.

To elaborate on it a little further, we can't accomplish what you are asking for with another set of bolts around the perimeter. There is also an M10 stud inside the perimeter that attaches to the firewall brace. Reclocking the plate would move that stud away from the brace. We could add another hole for that stud, but it would be right where the upper bearing holder wants to travel. So it would be very difficult to do what you are asking.

I have not had to run more caster since the E8x/E9x days. Depending on camber plate design you may end up with less camber when running more caster. I would personally like more camber than caster(there is plenty on the E and F chassis).

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by rwalker

...My car sees a fair bit

And we see more and more 1, 2, and 3 series guys that are thinking about tracking, or are committed to tracking their cars.

And the lateral play in the OEM bearing, it's because it's a pretty poor excuse for a bearing. BMW relies on an extra flap of rubber in the strut boot to keep grit out of it. We've seen this bearing, and it's predecessors back to the E46 M3, fail in their stock applications.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

I have not had to run more caster since the E8x/E9x days. Depending on camber plate design you may end up with less camber when running more caster. I would personally like more camber than caster(there is plenty on the E and F chassis).

I would disagree, steering feel is much improved with 2 additional degrees of castor, esp. on square setup on the m235i, but that would be subjective. Yes you loose camber, but I can still get 3.7 neg degrees of camber with the extra castor, which is plenty for a dual use car. That is on the kmacks, which are a very very delicate design, would not mind switching to take out some of the camber when not on track, but not at the expense of loosing my added castor adjustment. Voshtag, whip me up a custom set!

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

And we see more and more 1, 2, and 3 series guys that are thinking about tracking, or are committed to tracking their cars.

And the lateral play in the OEM bearing, it's because it's a pretty poor excuse for a bearing. BMW relies on an extra flap of rubber in the strut boot to keep grit out of it. We've seen this bearing, and it's predecessors back to the E46 M3, fail in their stock applications.

hah, the oem bearings belong in a lazy Susan, esp with the plastic case. BMW with all its engineering prowess, sometimes I wonder...

[HP Autosport]

More tease for you guys!

Look at the amount of camber!

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Pparana

hah, the oem bearings belong in a lazy Susan, esp with the plastic case. BMW with all its engineering prowess, sometimes I wonder...

Less expensive so more money can be made!

Likely the same reason none M differentials all have the ring gear welded to the open diff now. One bead of weld is cheaper than 12 high grade bolts and take less time to drill and tap the 12 holes in the ring gear! lol

[Cloud IX]

What is the ETA and projected price?