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      08-12-2019, 12:41 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Initial Impressions with M Performance LSD on M240i

I recently had my dealer fit an M Performance Limited Slip Differential to my 2018 M240i. I have about 15K miles on the car, so ample time to compare the open diff and the LSD.

First off, I owe a BIG THANKS to various guys on the forum who shared their experiences, it helped a lot in making my decision.

The short version: If it's within your budget, adding an LSD transforms the car, WOW, and in my opinion, a must-do.

The long version: the open diff does an okay job, so for the longest time I wondered about the value proposition, given that the way BMW does does it (port or dealer install only), it ends up costing over twice as much as Porsche charges for an LSD (which is saying something.)

That's where the forum experiences proved invaluable. There was no way around me to find an M240i with an LSD, driving the two back-to-back would make the decision simple.

At the time I ordered my car (6 MT), one couldn't even find an original M2 to test. (I did finally test drive an M2 later, and quite liked the chassis, not finding it nearly as harsh as magazine reports made out. I expect the M2C to be even better.)

So the way the M2 drove, coupled with the forum experiences, pushed me off the fence.

I've had and have other cars with LSDs, but never the same car with and without, so I wondered if I would really observe much difference, unless in a lower traction situation?

Big surprise, yes, you CAN tell and appreciate the LSD is there, even doing "non-hooligan" driving.

As I drove around the dealer's lot after install, I didn't expect much, nor perceive much. However, that changed as I got on the major street and headed to the first stop light. It's a 35 MPH artery, dotted with traffic lights. I was on the way to the nearest large parking lot to do my break-in
circles and figure-8s.

So 35 is hardly fast, but the car felt distinctly different under moderate braking. Much more planted, and directionally stable. Not that I'd accuse the open diff of wandering or yawing, but there's a difficult-to-describe imprecision with the open diff. I wish I could explain it better, but you can easily detect it via the seat of the pants feel and steering. Improved stability under braking, I really didn't expect that, but it's there, too.

Now hit the open diff with a big throttle opening and the rear end will try and jump out, before the yaw control intervenes, but even just poking along in normal driving the open diff seems...imprecise. I always wondered why Chris Harris didn't comment more about the M235i vs. Golf R, but then Harris' loaner M235i had the LSD fitted, which explains everything.

I am still in break-in with the LSD, so I haven't done anything "hooligan-like" yet. I haven't even been in the wet (drought in progress), but I am saying the LSD is so much better, even driving normally in the dry. I can see why guys rave about it, and no, it's not confirmation bias. It should be an even more substantial improvement in the wet or winter drives.

Several things I've noticed, with the windows down, making a left hand 90 degree turn from a stop, if there's a bit of loose gravel, as is the case on my street, I noticed the left rear tire popping out a few pieces, something that never happened with the open diff. So both wheels are getting power applied, not just when the right has less traction. Passing on a 2 lane road, the car just plants and goes, where the open diff was never that confidence-inspiring when you had to add power moderately quickly, it felt directionally elliptical, if that makes any sense.

My sister has a steep driveway with 90 degree turns, covered with leaves, fallen bark, twigs, etc., and the LSD feels better climbing up it, very stable and thrusty, versus it being a little skittish with the open diff.

Another observation, while I'm still not happy with the lack of steering feel-information from the contact patches, but with the LSD, the car definitely feels more "pointy" and responsive. (It does make me wonder about adding the Turner Motorsport lower control arm kit from the M4 to get the car to the best available chassis feel.)

As one of the posters said, the LSD is the best modification I've ever made to any car. I should have done it much sooner. The only drawback, it should be available from the factory, to avoid the duplicate diff expense and labor after the fact. I'm sure BMW Leipzig could manage it on original assembly.
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      08-13-2019, 02:16 PM   #2
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I just picked up a 2016 M235i RWD last Friday, coming from a 2015 M235i xDrive that unfortunately got hydrolocked. I am getting the LSD installed this Friday and reading this post is making me very excited! Glad you are liking it and everything is driving great!
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      08-13-2019, 06:16 PM   #3
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How much did the dealer charge for the install? Mine just quoted me $830 for labor (5.1 hours at $162/hr) plus $45 for “misc parts.” That doesn’t include fluid either.
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      08-13-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschwiggy View Post
How much did the dealer charge for the install? Mine just quoted me $830 for labor (5.1 hours at $162/hr) plus $45 for “misc parts.” That doesn’t include fluid either.
The dealer I'm going to said it's 3.2 hours of labor, totaling about $450 without tax. Most other shops I spoke with said 3-3.5 hours.
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      08-13-2019, 08:36 PM   #5
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I was charged

Quote:
Originally Posted by kschwiggy View Post
How much did the dealer charge for the install? Mine just quoted me $830 for labor (5.1 hours at $162/hr) plus $45 for “misc parts.” That doesn’t include fluid either.
$610 labor. The invoice doesn't list a duration.
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      08-14-2019, 12:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschwiggy View Post
How much did the dealer charge for the install? Mine just quoted me $830 for labor (5.1 hours at $162/hr) plus $45 for “misc parts.” That doesn’t include fluid either.
I'll have to check my invoice, but the race shop I used charged me right around the same. I was just under $3k all in and the part was $2150 after a discount. They also had to order a circlip + seal kit (for the output shafts, I believe) that does not come with the LSD, which I'm guessing is what your $45 "misc parts" charge is for. The LSD comes pre-filled with oil from BMW. Per BMW Motorsport's recommendation, I was told to break it in for 1000 miles using the factory installed oil and then change it out for 75W-140 race oil. I am about 150 miles shy of the 1000-mile mark, so I just ordered some Motul Gear Competition 75w140 oil off Amazon. Ordered 2 liters, but I am pretty sure it takes < 1L of oil. Can anyone confirm? Couldn't find the quantity info on newtis.info, although the suitable oil info is there.

And yes, the MP LSD is where it's at! Wouldn't want to keep the car without it...
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      08-14-2019, 06:34 AM   #7
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Re: diff fluid change

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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
I was told to break it in for 1000 miles using the factory installed oil and then change it out for 75W-140 race oil.
Interesting. Was that documented some place?

The BMW blurb I read was that it didn't need changing, was and for the "life of the unit." I would favor changing it at some point, and perhaps periodically beyond that.

The differential doesn't have a drain plug, so either you drill and tap to put one in, or have it siphoned out -- inconvenient.
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      08-14-2019, 10:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RvR View Post
Interesting. Was that documented some place?

The BMW blurb I read was that it didn't need changing, was and for the "life of the unit." I would favor changing it at some point, and perhaps periodically beyond that.

The differential doesn't have a drain plug, so either you drill and tap to put one in, or have it siphoned out -- inconvenient.
I don't believe it's documented. Just recommended by my race shop and their BMW Motorsport rep. I also took it straight to the track for a 2-day DE after installation. Others on here have said their BMW dealerships recommended they find parking lots and do figure 8's, break it in somewhat carefully for usual 1200 miles like with new car, etc. My race shop just said, "Well, we install them all the time and go racing the very next day. You'll be fine."

Still, I think it makes sense to change the oil after ~1000 miles or so just to flush out any microscopic metal shavings from the initial break-in, regardless of how one chooses to break it in. As you've already alluded to, "lifetime" fluids are BS. Change the oil once after break-in and then use common sense from that point forward. Maybe every 10-20k miles if daily driven or every 3-5 track events. Even that may be a bit too often, but better safe than sorry with a $3k part.
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      08-14-2019, 12:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RvR View Post
for the "life of the unit."

have it siphoned out --- inconvenient.
When it comes to recommended gearbox oil change intervals, BMW is focused on your cost of ownership, not how long your gearboxes will last.

The seller of my Wavetrac differential, Diffsonline.com, recommends a 1,200-mile break-in period, and perform gear oil changes "every 24K miles in a street-driven car, or every 12K miles in a car that sees autocross or track day use.”

The fill plug is very accessible, so siphoning-out the gear oil is pretty easy.
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      08-14-2019, 12:32 PM   #10
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Your story sounds similar to mine. I waited about 2 years until I installed the MP LSD. I also agree with everything you said about the changes and improvements and how hard it is to convey just how different the car feels even under normal driving.

I recently added the Dinantronics Stage II piggyback and I'm currently running it in Stage 1 until I get my charge pipe installed (also have a catted DP installed). Without the LSD out back, the car would be a handful. With the LSD, it feels completely controllable and safe.

As the LSD breaks in over the next couple of months, you'll notice it's operation getting smoother. When I first installed it, it could be a bit clunky and abrupt in tighter turns when the clutches engaged.
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      08-14-2019, 05:48 PM   #11
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Fluid change

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
I don't believe it's documented. Just recommended by my race shop and their BMW Motorsport rep. I also took it straight to the track for a 2-day DE after installation. Others on here have said their BMW dealerships recommended they find parking lots and do figure 8's, break it in somewhat carefully for usual 1200 miles like with new car, etc. My race shop just said, "Well, we install them all the time and go racing the very next day. You'll be fine."

Still, I think it makes sense to change the oil after ~1000 miles or so just to flush out any microscopic metal shavings from the initial break-in, regardless of how one chooses to break it in. As you've already alluded to, "lifetime" fluids are BS. Change the oil once after break-in and then use common sense from that point forward. Maybe every 10-20k miles if daily driven or every 3-5 track events. Even that may be a bit too often, but better safe than sorry with a $3k part.
Okay great.

I just checked Mike Miller's (BMW CCA tech head) "Lifetime" maintenance schedule (that is lifetime if you want to keep the car more than 100K), and he recommends every 30,000 for both the gearbox and differential.

Not that this matters, other than they both use Getrag gearboxes, but Porsche used to be 80K on gearbox and differential, and is now 90K. (even more off-topic, but Porsche's oil change interval back around 2011 went from 15K down to 10K. Speculation was that it was due to the U.S. using E10 frequently)
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      08-14-2019, 05:54 PM   #12
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LSD feel

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Your story sounds similar to mine. I waited about 2 years until I installed the MP LSD. I also agree with everything you said about the changes and improvements and how hard it is to convey just how different the car feels even under normal driving.

[...]

As the LSD breaks in over the next couple of months, you'll notice it's operation getting smoother. When I first installed it, it could be a bit clunky and abrupt in tighter turns when the clutches engaged.
I wish I could better describe how different the with and without LSD feels for the other guys, but am something of a loss in describing the open differential. I can't describe anything that the open diff is doing wrong, but I sure know when the LSD is doing it right.

I haven't noticed any clunky noises as of yet, but only have a few hundred miles on it. I did do the 20 CW, 20 CCW circles and figure 8s right away, I don't know if that made any difference. I literally went an eighth of a mile from the dealer, because the big parking lot was right there on the way home. One of the very few good things about Sears dying, making a big, empty parking lot available....
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      08-14-2019, 06:24 PM   #13
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Yeah, I did the recommended break in figure 8s right away. I just noticed the unit becoming more linear and smooth over time. Also, quieter.

With the open diff, the rear axle feels a bit loose and at odds with the front axle. In an oversteer situation it feels really loose. With the LSD, it feels like I've got an extra 500lbs sitting directly over the rear axle. The car simply feels more planted in all situations. I've had LSDs in other cars but none felt as dynamically robust as this one.
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      08-15-2019, 12:21 PM   #14
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Interesting - thanks for the info about the installation costs. I can't wait to get mine in after reading the other comments.

One dealer quoted $875 for labor, another dealer told me the swap can't be done because the stock diff has an electronic module in it (they sounded clueless), another dealer told me they won't touch it since I'm not buying the LSD from them, and then I got two quotes from independent shops for $600 and $400 for labor. Still mulling over the options.
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      08-22-2019, 12:06 AM   #15
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Can the installed open def be converted to an LSD
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      08-22-2019, 09:02 AM   #16
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The only way to reliably 'convert ' is to remove the open differential guts, remove the ring gear (which is welded onto the factory differential) and install a Quaife, WaveTrac, Drexler, OS Giken or some other reputable differential) into the Diff housing and reinstall.

FYI Drexler makes the M-Performance differential that BMW offers for these cars.

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Can the installed open def be converted to an LSD
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      01-08-2020, 03:51 PM   #17
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I'm planning to install the M-Performance LSD this spring. I found a shop (that sells Dinan) who will do the install it for $450.

My question for you that have done the install: What did you do with the OEM open diff? Is there a market out there for it?

I see there are places doing Quaife/Wavetrac conversions that charge a $500 core charge. Would a place like that buy for $300-400?
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      01-08-2020, 04:31 PM   #18
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Mine is sitting in my garage on its mini pallet. I was planning on keeping so I could sell the LSD if I ever part out the car.
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      01-08-2020, 06:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNerd View Post
I'm planning to install the M-Performance LSD this spring. I found a shop (that sells Dinan) who will do the install it for $450.

My question for you that have done the install: What did you do with the OEM open diff? Is there a market out there for it?

I see there are places doing Quaife/Wavetrac conversions that charge a $500 core charge. Would a place like that buy for $300-400?
I'd check with Dan at Diffsonline to see if he will buy it from you: https://diffsonline.com/. I got my Wavetrac from Dan in exchange for my OEM diff along with some money.

Diffsonline LLC 190R Main St Unit 1 Wilmington MA 01887 TEL 800-219-0485
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      01-09-2020, 10:07 AM   #20
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Hi all,
New M235i owner here - has anyone installed the M Performance LSD themselves?

I've changed differentials several times in my old E46 and it was super easy. But it appears that the F22 needs some special tools to remove the axle shafts from the diff.

Also, is there any updates to the coding needed after installing the LSD?
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      01-09-2020, 12:43 PM   #21
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My shop told me no coding needed (and certainly didn’t charge for any).

The DIY install could be a bitch. They said it took two people to do the install and they had the right tools (which they special ordered for my job). They said you can still do the install without the tools, it’s just substantially harder.
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      01-09-2020, 04:36 PM   #22
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I didn't hear about any coding done, either

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallikatz3 View Post
Hi all,
New M235i owner here - has anyone installed the M Performance LSD themselves?

I've changed differentials several times in my old E46 and it was super easy. But it appears that the F22 needs some special tools to remove the axle shafts from the diff.

Also, is there any updates to the coding needed after installing the LSD?
I didn't watch the dealer doing the swap (car was there at least half a day), but AFAIK, it was all mechanical work.

What they did with the old open diff, I don't know. I didn't have a use for it, and thus didn't ask. I'll typically look at wear parts, spark plugs, air filters, et al., but since I was never going to use the open diff again, I let them do whatever with it.

I'm still so much happier with the LSD. I may go with the Turner M4 LCA kit to further improve the steering at some point, we'll have to see.
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