[Le frog]

Hello,
The outside shoulders of the front tires of my m235 are starting to wear off pretty badly. The car is stock, with 7,600 miles. Now I now I drive quite spirited, and yes I really much enjoy driving my car, hunting for twisters whenever I can.
But This is quite surprising. I took the car to Crevier BMW, to see if the car needed an alignment. I was told that my driving style - aggressive cornering- was more likely the cause. I went to an independent local shop for a second opinion, were I was told that due to the low negative camber (-.8) and the non adjustable nature of Mc Pherson struts, this is a rather common trait among BMW's. He suggested the installation of camber plates, in order to minimize wear. Anyone had this kind of issue? Are Camber plates worth it, knowing that I will probably track the car maybe once or twice? Any advice, besides the fact that I should drive like a Granma?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Le frog

Hello,
The outside shoulders of the front tires of my m235 are starting to wear off pretty badly. The car is stock, with 7,600 miles. Now I now I drive quite spirited, and yes I really much enjoy driving my car, hunting for twisters whenever I can.
But This is quite surprising. I took the car to Crevier BMW, to see if the car needed an alignment. I was told that my driving style - aggressive cornering- was more likely the cause. I went to an independent local shop for a second opinion, were I was told that due to the low negative camber (-.8) and the non adjustable nature of Mc Pherson struts, this is a rather common trait among BMW's. He suggested the installation of camber plates, in order to minimize wear. Anyone had this kind of issue? Are Camber plates worth it, knowing that I will probably track the car maybe once or twice? Any advice, besides the fact that I should drive like a Granma?

get the M4 LCA

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079766

[Prazision]

common problem I too had it, look into LCA's and/or camber plates.

[jaboyd]

On my 15 M235 (Pss) I'm in a similar situation, 5/32 tire depth in center but nearly worn past tread on outer front edges at 9.5k mi. I can probably only get another 2- 2.5k mi before they'll need replacement. This means the fronts will probably not go past 12k mi, which is 20% below the Michelin 15k mi warranty on a staggered setup.

Definitely the limited/non-adjustable front camber along w/aggressive driving is causing the wear. You can get a little less wear running a few psi more air but only to a limit. PSS are prone to outside wear under demanding driving but will do better with more camber. I do not know best camber settings on a 2 series but suspect it would be in the -1.5 to -2 range for a DD.

Either adjustment at the control arm or a camber plate should work, camber plates are needed for more aggressive setups but will work at these levels.

The question is installed cost and the benefit. Camber plates (assuming dyi install) are under $700 ( I believe) but don't know the cost for upgraded control arms. The point is that if a set of tire replacements (all 4) is ~ $900 and you're losing 20% life (equivalent to $180) then camber plates have ~ 4 tire set replacement before an economic payback. So after ~ 50k mi of driving you'd start to save money.

The other side of the coin is that additional negative camber will improve handling/performance. So if that combination of better handling and longer term economic payback works then these could be a wise choice.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by jaboyd

On my 15 M235 (Pss) I'm in a similar situation, 5/32 tire depth in center but nearly worn past tread on outer front edges at 9.5k mi. I can probably only get another 2- 2.5k mi before they'll need replacement. This means the fronts will probably not go past 12k mi, which is 20% below the Michelin 15k mi warranty on a staggered setup.

Definitely the limited/non-adjustable front camber along w/aggressive driving is causing the wear. You can get a little less wear running a few psi more air but only to a limit. PSS are prone to outside wear under demanding driving but will do better with more camber. I do not know best camber settings on a 2 series but suspect it would be in the -1.5 to -2 range for a DD.

Either adjustment at the control arm or a camber plate should work, camber plates are needed for more aggressive setups but will work at these levels.

The question is installed cost and the benefit. Camber plates (assuming dyi install) are under $700 ( I believe) but don't know the cost for upgraded control arms. The point is that if a set of tire replacements (all 4) is ~ $900 and you're losing 20% life (equivalent to $180) then camber plates have ~ 4 tire set replacement before an economic payback. So after ~ 50k mi of driving you'd start to save money.

The other side of the coin is that additional negative camber will improve handling/performance. So if that combination of better handling and longer term economic payback works then these could be a wise choice.

LCA's are about $370

[jaboyd]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

LCA's are about $370

How difficult (costly) is the install? How much adjustment range can you get?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by jaboyd

How difficult (costly) is the install? How much adjustment range can you get?

Probably 1 hour install... $120. Should be fairly easy to put in and out

They are not adjustable... they are fix but you get about 1.7 total negative camber

[jaboyd]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Probably 1 hour install... $120. Should be fairly easy to put in and out

They are not adjustable... they are fix but you get about 1.7 total negative camber

I assume it is a dyi install, correct? Do you happen to know pns for both sides?

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by jaboyd

I assume it is a dyi install, correct? Do you happen to know pns for both sides?

Yes I think you can do diy. Look at the link I posted there you have the info

[Le frog]

Thank you for the advice.
I am leaning towards camber plates. and probably add some 10 mm spacers too

[Cloud IX]

Took me about 20 minutes to install both LCAs. Pretty straight forward and easy. You will need to adjust your toe to drive it to the alignment shop.

I ended up with -1.9 degrees up front which was nice, but it also pushes out and forward your wheel, so be warned if you have an aggressive aftermarket setup.

[Le frog]

Thanks. I ended up ordering the LCA, since I figured I might track the car only a few times, camber plates might be overkill. I also have 10 mm spacers on the way. It should be quite a nice setup.

[i8ur911]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

get the M4 LCA

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079766

^^^^^this

[Le frog]

Well as of yesterday, the LCA were swapped; and I ended up going with 12 mm spacers all around, as it looks like the best setup. And of course, an alignment was needed.
Let me tell you, even though that this was a simple modification, it did noticeably improve the handling, with the car feeling more planted and squat in turns, with much less under steer. I honestly didn't expect that much difference, beyond the fact that this will hopefully reduce the severe tire outer wear.
Which leads me to wonder, why didn't BMW used these Lower Control Arms, along with slightly deeper offset wheels on the M235i to begin with? I understand it might be to reduce the risk of over steer, but a car like this is really begging for it.
Definitely worth it!

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by Le frog

Well as of yesterday, the LCA were swapped; and I ended up going with 12 mm spacers all around, as it looks like the best setup. And of course, an alignment was needed.
Let me tell you, even though that this was a simple modification, it did noticeably improve the handling, with the car feeling more planted and squat in turns, with much less under steer. I honestly didn't expect that much difference, beyond the fact that this will hopefully reduce the severe tire outer wear.
Which leads me to wonder, why didn't BMW used these Lower Control Arms, along with slightly deeper offset wheels on the M235i to begin with? I understand it might be to reduce the risk of over steer, but a car like this is really begging for it.
Definitely worth it!

The car is not tuned to be as aggressive as it can be -- blame BMW for not wanting to crowd the "real" M cars. It's pretty amazing how much better the car handles with a proper alignment/some extra camber up front.