THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics Suspension | Chassis | Brakes The brake pad thread

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-30-2019, 06:51 PM   #221
bryan_G01
Lieutenant Colonel
bryan_G01's Avatar
1100
Rep
1,911
Posts

Drives: x3 m40
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

screeching with non oem pads are usually caused by not using "Brake Anti-Squeal Paste" with the new pads. Ive done it 3x times, and they were noisy each time.
__________________
www.nybmwcca.org
Motorsport Safety Foundation Certified Instructor
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2019, 06:58 PM   #222
MikeG12
Second Lieutenant
United_States
19
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 2014 228 MSport and 2017 X1
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I've done many brake jobs. I used the brake grease that came with the Hawk pads. I drove it a little today and did some fast stops. Much less noise, so I hope it will go away. The noise I'm getting now goes away when I press on the brake, so hopefully it will go away once broken in. Haven't driven the car that much but the Hawk pads seem to work very well and I don't see any dust compared to OEM BMW pads.
Appreciate 0
      03-31-2019, 10:02 PM   #223
kthor703
Enlisted Member
6
Rep
34
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Washington, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG12 View Post
Yes, I've done many brake jobs. I used the brake grease that came with the Hawk pads. I drove it a little today and did some fast stops. Much less noise, so I hope it will go away. The noise I'm getting now goes away when I press on the brake, so hopefully it will go away once broken in. Haven't driven the car that much but the Hawk pads seem to work very well and I don't see any dust compared to OEM BMW pads.
Is the noise you are getting cyclic and increasing with speed? Sometimes the pads don't 100% retract from the brake rotor and make a light contact. With an upgraded and more performance oriented pad, you can get some light scratching noise as the rotor turns. It could also be the E brake concern you mentioned. My G loc pads on another vehicle do a similar thing. And the noise goes away when I start to apply the brakes.
Appreciate 0
      04-03-2019, 04:30 PM   #224
MikeG12
Second Lieutenant
United_States
19
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: 2014 228 MSport and 2017 X1
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts

iTrader: (1)

Noise is almost gone after 100 miles+ driving. I might put it on the lift this weekend and take a closer look if it persists.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2019, 02:51 PM   #225
MarcoZandrini
First Lieutenant
United_States
94
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 2018 M240i
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

I'm here to..

.....praise PF-08 pads. Yeah, they are noisy unless stone cold or hot, and they are dusty. But do they stop! I spent March 30/31 at Virginia International Raceway (VIR) with the Tarheel Chapter of the BMWCCA. My instructor, Randy Perry, had me hitting (an I mean SLAMMING) the brakes at marker 2 at turn 13! (Here's the track layout: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads...rse_2018km.jpg) These pads on the factory rotors NEVER faded, NEVER failed! I was able to out-brake every other car, including a couple of vettes, in my class. The pulsing/juddering noted earlier in the thread is gone. I attribute that to not fully and completely bedding in the pads. Yes, the fluid was flushed prior to the weekend with Motul RBF600.

If you want track pads that are fine (if you don't mind the noise) for your DD, then PF-08 pads are your best bet.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2019, 03:23 PM   #226
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2209
Rep
38,968
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
.....praise PF-08 pads. Yeah, they are noisy unless stone cold or hot, and they are dusty. But do they stop! I spent March 30/31 at Virginia International Raceway (VIR) with the Tarheel Chapter of the BMWCCA. My instructor, Randy Perry, had me hitting (an I mean SLAMMING) the brakes at marker 2 at turn 13! (Here's the track layout: http://virnow.com/wp-content/uploads...rse_2018km.jpg) These pads on the factory rotors NEVER faded, NEVER failed! I was able to out-brake every other car, including a couple of vettes, in my class. The pulsing/juddering noted earlier in the thread is gone. I attribute that to not fully and completely bedding in the pads. Yes, the fluid was flushed prior to the weekend with Motul RBF600.

If you want track pads that are fine (if you don't mind the noise) for your DD, then PF-08 pads are your best bet.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2019, 10:12 PM   #227
ggggbmw
Private First Class
104
Rep
127
Posts

Drives: 2014 M235 RWD
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

pad swap - same location or rotate?

Last year I swapped in street+/light-track pads for the summer, and went back to the OEM pads for the winter. I took pains to mark the pads so they went back in the exact same location.

This year I'll be doing full track pads for track weekends, street+ pads for the rest of the summer, and back to OEM in the fall with the winter tires. Lots of pad swapping.

The question is, as I do all of this pad swapping, should I be concerned about putting the pads back in the same spot? Should the Left Outer always be the Left Outer? Or, should the pads be rotated around like tires? Inside to outside, left to right, some other way? Or does it just not matter at all?

My initial thought is that the pads might take a set to the brake rotor, matching any grooving in the disc. But my rotors are generally smooth, and the pads all look identical when I pull them out. I'm starting to think keeping them in the same spot is just OCD.

This also assumes that there is no significant vertical or horizontal taper in the pads, no significant grooving, and the wear is generally even across an axle set.

So, same spot? Conscious rotation? Or just shuffle them around randomly?
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2019, 11:19 AM   #228
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2209
Rep
38,968
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
Last year I swapped in street+/light-track pads for the summer, and went back to the OEM pads for the winter. I took pains to mark the pads so they went back in the exact same location.

This year I'll be doing full track pads for track weekends, street+ pads for the rest of the summer, and back to OEM in the fall with the winter tires. Lots of pad swapping.

The question is, as I do all of this pad swapping, should I be concerned about putting the pads back in the same spot? Should the Left Outer always be the Left Outer? Or, should the pads be rotated around like tires? Inside to outside, left to right, some other way? Or does it just not matter at all?

My initial thought is that the pads might take a set to the brake rotor, matching any grooving in the disc. But my rotors are generally smooth, and the pads all look identical when I pull them out. I'm starting to think keeping them in the same spot is just OCD.

This also assumes that there is no significant vertical or horizontal taper in the pads, no significant grooving, and the wear is generally even across an axle set.

So, same spot? Conscious rotation? Or just shuffle them around randomly?
No, you don't have to get the pads back in the same spot. However, you will need to bed-in each time you swap between street and track pads.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2019, 07:44 AM   #229
drives like jehu
New Member
United_States
6
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: BMW M235i
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

PFC 08 on sale at Apex Performance

After digesting this thread, I'm going with the PFC 08's for track days this year. I found them on sale at Apex Performance; $260 for fronts. The Apex site is not the best but got the pads with free shipping in 2 days.
Cheers
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2019, 08:54 PM   #230
MarcoZandrini
First Lieutenant
United_States
94
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: 2018 M240i
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by drives like jehu View Post
After digesting this thread, I'm going with the PFC 08's for track days this year. I found them on sale at Apex Performance; $260 for fronts. The Apex site is not the best but got the pads with free shipping in 2 days.
Cheers
Make sure you bed the pads in properly. While the rear brakes provide only about 35% of the braking I recommend you buy pads for the rear, also.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2019, 03:25 PM   #231
Maynard
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
1018
Rep
1,634
Posts

Drives: 2016 228iX
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Upstate NY

iTrader: (0)

I'm on Ferodo DS25000 pads and they are doing MUCH better for me than the Hawk HPS from last season (those worked well on street, but noisy and they gave it up on track). After a 3-day HPDE they are well-bedded, and almost no noise (and this is w/o any backing grease); very good cold braking, only possible complaint would be a little grabby. I'd read a couple of posts complaining about poor braking while cold, but these have been great for me down to about 35 degrees. It was so cold and wet that I don't think I can comment on dust, but that isn't really a factor for me.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2019, 10:08 PM   #232
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2209
Rep
38,968
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
I'm on Ferodo DS25000 pads and they are doing MUCH better for me than the Hawk HPS from last season (those worked well on street, but noisy and they gave it up on track). After a 3-day HPDE they are well-bedded, and almost no noise (and this is w/o any backing grease); very good cold braking, only possible complaint would be a little grabby. I'd read a couple of posts complaining about poor braking while cold, but these have been great for me down to about 35 degrees. It was so cold and wet that I don't think I can comment on dust, but that isn't really a factor for me.
Lots of our local customers run the DS2500 as their daily and trackpads with little to no noise. No one has a complaint about cold temp braking so far.
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2019, 08:52 PM   #233
CP911
Major
United_States
671
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: '18 M240i 6-speed Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NW Indiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
If you're going to the track, I think you're a good candidate for race pads. Essex Parts has just produced a basic intro to track/race pads that you may find useful:

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...d-owners-guide.

Inside are a dozen or so references to brake system heat and the part pads play in managing it.

Essex also has a primer on when to replace discs that might help you:

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...-my-iron-discs.

I've changed my rotors out when surface cracks are wide enough to catch a fingernail dragged at a low angle across the face of the rotor. FWIW, most all of my track time has been in other BMWs running slotted rotors. I've never had a rotor crack to its edge before the surface cracks were already wide enough that I chose to replace it. That's been true for both plain and slotted rotors. FWIW, I have seen quite a few drilled rotors at the track that were cracked to their edges.

One other thing: how aggressive a pad you choose to run is related to how sticky your tires are. Any person or shop/retailer you might ask for pad advice should ask you what tires you intend to run. The two go together in that the more aggressive the pad, the grippier the tire needs to be. Otherwise, with an aggressive pad and, say, a street tire, you'd spend an inordinate amount of time in the ABS as the pad grips the rotor hard while the tire won't grip the track surface in a like fashion. I hope that makes sense.
Quick update to my brake pad situation:

I dropped my car off yesterday at Fall Line Motorsports in Buffalo Grove, IL for the M Performance LSD installation (woohoo!) and a brake fluid flush with Motul RBF660 that I supplied them. Before I left, I remembered to ask about brake pads too, and after some discussion and customer references they gave me, I ended up emptying my wallet for some Pagid RSL29 endurance pads. $630 after taxes! That is not including the labor @ $175 an hour. I could have saved a $100 or so going with some Hawk pads, but figured what the hell... I won't have the time to take on the work myself and I have a 2-day HPDE coming up in less than 2 weeks. Still need to find the time to change engine oil by myself and hopefully install some wheel studs that I bought a while back as well.

What is the verdict on the Pagid yellow RSL29 from those who have experience with them?

The boys at Fall Line Motorsports swore by them and after walking for a mile in their MEGA warehouse filled with race cars and like 6 semi truck trailers, I figured those guys are about as serious as it gets when it comes to track prep. Kind of took their word for it. I was told they are a medium friction pad that won't trigger ABS easily and will work great with my PSS tires, but will still handle track abuse with ease and give me all the benefits of a serious endurance track pad while being easy on the rotors. I was warned about squeal and dust, but oh well. I bought the car to enjoy on track and really don't drive it much on the street anyhow.

I didn't ask them how long I can expect them to last in terms of # of track events, however. What is considered "average" for replacement intervals on these endurance pads like RSL29, PF08, PF11, etc.? Just hoping I didn't spend $630+ on brake pads that will only last me 1 or 2 events. If I can get at least 3-4 events worth of worry-free, consistent braking, then perhaps it will end up being worth the investment.

I'll be sure to come back and share my thoughts and experiences after the weekend of May 18/19th!
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2019, 09:33 PM   #234
pikcachu
Brigadier General
pikcachu's Avatar
925
Rep
4,738
Posts

Drives: M235i (F22 Red angel)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: undisclosed

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Quick update to my brake pad situation:

I dropped my car off yesterday at Fall Line Motorsports in Buffalo Grove, IL for the M Performance LSD installation (woohoo!) and a brake fluid flush with Motul RBF660 that I supplied them. Before I left, I remembered to ask about brake pads too, and after some discussion and customer references they gave me, I ended up emptying my wallet for some Pagid RSL29 endurance pads. $630 after taxes! That is not including the labor @ $175 an hour. I could have saved a $100 or so going with some Hawk pads, but figured what the hell... I won't have the time to take on the work myself and I have a 2-day HPDE coming up in less than 2 weeks. Still need to find the time to change engine oil by myself and hopefully install some wheel studs that I bought a while back as well.

What is the verdict on the Pagid yellow RSL29 from those who have experience with them?

The boys at Fall Line Motorsports swore by them and after walking for a mile in their MEGA warehouse filled with race cars and like 6 semi truck trailers, I figured those guys are about as serious as it gets when it comes to track prep. Kind of took their word for it. I was told they are a medium friction pad that won't trigger ABS easily and will work great with my PSS tires, but will still handle track abuse with ease and give me all the benefits of a serious endurance track pad while being easy on the rotors. I was warned about squeal and dust, but oh well. I bought the car to enjoy on track and really don't drive it much on the street anyhow.

I didn't ask them how long I can expect them to last in terms of # of track events, however. What is considered "average" for replacement intervals on these endurance pads like RSL29, PF08, PF11, etc.? Just hoping I didn't spend $630+ on brake pads that will only last me 1 or 2 events. If I can get at least 3-4 events worth of worry-free, consistent braking, then perhaps it will end up being worth the investment.

I'll be sure to come back and share my thoughts and experiences after the weekend of May 18/19th!
Pagid yellow are probably the best track pad you can get..... now good luck stopping on the street
Appreciate 0
      05-07-2019, 09:43 PM   #235
CP911
Major
United_States
671
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: '18 M240i 6-speed Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NW Indiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Pagid yellow are probably the best track pad you can get..... now good luck stopping on the street
Uh oh! I was told they should still stop okay on the street. One of the guys said the Porsche GT3 uses these as OEM pads??? Not sure if that's true, but if so, I can't imagine Porsche would supply them on what is technically still a street car if they were dangerous to use. Would love to hear about some 1st hand experiences out there!
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2019, 01:06 PM   #236
dradernh
Captain
358
Rep
840
Posts

Drives: 2017 M240i
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Uh oh! I was told they should still stop okay on the street. One of the guys said the Porsche GT3 uses these as OEM pads??? Not sure if that's true, but if so, I can't imagine Porsche would supply them on what is technically still a street car if they were dangerous to use. Would love to hear about some 1st hand experiences out there!
You won't have any trouble stopping on the street. When they're cold, you just have to press the pedal somewhat harder. It's not a big deal. The squealing...well, that comes with the territory. I minimize it as best I can by driving in a way that almost eliminates it.

The only reason the yellows won't last you a long time is if you're especially hard on your brakes. You can burn anything up if you abuse it sufficiently.

I don't know what your experience level is at the track, but drivers that are hard on their brakes are generally spending more time on their brakes. Even though they're going faster (assuming equal cars), advanced students and instructors tend to complete their speed reduction pretty quickly by braking harder for a shorter length of time. Expect to feel your ABS.

Something to remember is that the purpose of braking at the track is to reduce the car's speed only enough to enable it to turn-in to the corner at the edge of traction. Pros get paid because they can do that consistently; the rest of us over-slow to one degree or another.
__________________
2017 M240i: MT, Moonroof Delete, EB, Black Dakota Leather, Driving Assistance Package, Heated Front Seats
TC Kline Coilover Kit; EDC/eLSD Delete; Wavetrac; Al Subframe Bushings; ARC-8 - 18X9 & 17X9; R888R - 255/35-18 & 255/40-17; Hawk DTC70; Schroth Quick Fit Pro Harnesses

Last edited by dradernh; 05-09-2019 at 12:06 PM..
Appreciate 2
CP911670.50
msendit18.00

      05-08-2019, 01:19 PM   #237
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2209
Rep
38,968
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Uh oh! I was told they should still stop okay on the street. One of the guys said the Porsche GT3 uses these as OEM pads??? Not sure if that's true, but if so, I can't imagine Porsche would supply them on what is technically still a street car if they were dangerous to use. Would love to hear about some 1st hand experiences out there!
Not sure if that is the case.

We just did front and rear brake pads on a Porsche GT3 and the Porsche genuine pads are Pagid, but they are not the Yellows.
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2019, 11:28 PM   #238
CP911
Major
United_States
671
Rep
1,006
Posts

Drives: '18 M240i 6-speed Coupe
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NW Indiana

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Not sure if that is the case.

We just did front and rear brake pads on a Porsche GT3 and the Porsche genuine pads are Pagid, but they are not the Yellows.
Any markings on the OEM Pagid GT3 pads that might indicate what they actually are? Just wondering if they could be the same compound as yellows, but without the yellow color as to not interfere with Pagid's (or Porsche's) marketing efforts.
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2019, 08:54 AM   #239
Razzback
Enlisted Member
6
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: 2018 M240 XDrive
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hoboken NJ

iTrader: (0)

Just did my first HPDE of the season on EBC yellows. Worked well for that. I've had them on for a few months, so they've been broken in. No fade and good bite, but still noisy as hell in stop & go traffic. Enough dust to make any wheel look like shit after a week or 2.
__________________
M240X /// DINAN /// VMR
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2019, 12:35 PM   #240
pikcachu
Brigadier General
pikcachu's Avatar
925
Rep
4,738
Posts

Drives: M235i (F22 Red angel)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: undisclosed

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzback View Post
Just did my first HPDE of the season on EBC yellows. Worked well for that. I've had them on for a few months, so they've been broken in. No fade and good bite, but still noisy as hell in stop & go traffic. Enough dust to make any wheel look like shit after a week or 2.
If you put some paste on the backing plate and the contact points against the caliper it usually goes away...
Appreciate 0
      05-09-2019, 12:40 PM   #241
HP Autosport
General
United_States
2209
Rep
38,968
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com

iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
Any markings on the OEM Pagid GT3 pads that might indicate what they actually are? Just wondering if they could be the same compound as yellows, but without the yellow color as to not interfere with Pagid's (or Porsche's) marketing efforts.
No, didn't see any specific markings. The characteristics of the pads are more street pad like than yellows as well.
Appreciate 0
      05-10-2019, 02:46 AM   #242
msendit
Enlisted Member
msendit's Avatar
18
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: M240i
Join Date: May 2018
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
What is the verdict on the Pagid yellow RSL29 from those who have experience with them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
You won't have any trouble stopping on the street. ... The squealing...well, that comes with the territory. I minimize it as best I can by driving in a way that almost eliminates it.
I've gone through 7-8 sets of them -- they're a fine pad. Not extremely bitey initially, but more than enough to lock up relatively sticky tires. They release very gradually too.
They're ok for street driving cold. And yeah, they squeal. But, it's a track pad, anything in that category is noisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
The only reason the yellows won't last you a long time is if you're especially hard on your brakes. You can burn anything up if you abuse it sufficiently.
That's me these days. I'm trail braking fairly deep to get the car turned in, and with summer temps coming up, that dragging seems to cause a little more heat than the 340mm rotors can lose. The RS29 tend to crumble around the outer edges if you start overheating them, and then wear pretty fast at these temps. A couple of weeks ago I had one actually crack through the middle, which made for a rather weird pedal feel:



As dradernh mentioned, this is mostly about driving style, and you can definitely be quite fast without overheating them. I've been trying some Hawk DTC-60s while I set up better brake cooling, and the first impression is they don't seem to crumble as much. Also, quite a bit more initial bite. But it's hard to tell from just a single set.

Oh, and I also had someone with a GT4 notice my box of spares at the track, and mention his car came with pagid yellows stock. As HP Autosport mentioned, maybe confused about another pagid pad.
Appreciate 1
CP911670.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST