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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning M235i Stage 2 (Bootmod3) Stuttering + Inconsistent Ignition Timing?

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      03-01-2020, 12:02 PM   #1
Sliptality
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Exclamation M235i Stage 2 (Bootmod3) Stuttering + Inconsistent Ignition Timing?

Hey all. First off, hi. I'm brand new to the forums and a first time BMW owner.

I recently did a full stage 2 kit on my 2015 M235i xDrive (8 speed, auto). I installed the following parts:
  • VSRF Catless Downpipe
  • 5" Stepped HD Core (VSRF) FMIC
  • VSRF Chargepipe
  • Injen Short Ram Intake
  • NGK 1-step colder Spark Plugs

On to my issue:
Whenever I am being light on the throttle and just holding steady RPMs/speed on the highway, I get this feeling of the car shifting every so often. It is NOT shifting. It's this weird little hiccup that makes it feel like a rough shift. Sometimes it's incredibly subtle, sometimes it's quite harsh. I believe I caught this happening in a log here (from .690 to .915): http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e5b2aa0d10b43119366afdf

I also noticed on a couple occasions that the car would stutter quite badly and not even let me go over 2-2.5k RPMs. If I let off and eased back into it I could get it to go right back to normal. This seemed really weird to me but I haven't been able to reproduce it really.

Now, I know intakes can cause some issues. In fact, I threw the stock intake back on and the car DID run better and these hiccups were MUCH more subtle, but it did not eliminate the issue that was present. My passengers likely wouldn't feel the hiccup on the stock intake it unless I pointed it out. I also have a whole slew of CEL codes, which did not disappear when I put the stock intake on either, INCLUDING the MAF code. All of these problems were present on the stock spark plugs before switching over to the NGK plugs. The car runs a little nicer with the NGK plugs (my old ones were at 61k) but the same issues are present. I think a spark plug issue can be ruled out.



I also want to include a full hard pull for you guys to take a look at with me to determine whether or not it's running optimal under WOT conditions. I ran through third and fourth here.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e5b2a9ed10b43119366afdd

Edit: I just noticed how off the ignition timing is, particularly bad in the 4th gear pull in the log above. Any input?

I'll note that it's very cold here in Pennsylvania (below 32F).

So, with all that being said, feel free to ask me questions because I'll pretty much be here all day trying to figure this crap out! I love the sound of the car now and would really like to keep the intake given that I now own it (can't return it now...) and it makes some pretty sweet turbo noises I would be surprised if bootmod3 could not tune the car to compensate for the additional airflow from the intake?

Any insight is VERY appreciated!

Last edited by Sliptality; 03-01-2020 at 01:37 PM.. Reason: Noticed bad ignition timing in 4th gear pull
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      03-01-2020, 01:12 PM   #2
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Going down similar Road

Just installed VRSF CP & 5 HD IC. I will be going BM3 Stage one next but my MAP Sensor needs to be cleaned (noticed a small amount of oil residue on it and I don't have any CRC MAF Spray. Additionally, my green o-ring had a small cut or tear that must have been created on removal.

So -- tomorrow I will head to dealership for 0-ring and pick up some MAF spray prior to starting the car up.

I will check for boost leaks and how she runs. Going to start with new coil packs and plugs prior to BM3 Stage 1 only. Seems like S-2 is great but comes with many little bugs and cels hence only Stage One .


Good Luck!
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      03-01-2020, 01:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123Britt View Post
Just installed VRSF CP & 5 HD IC. I will be going BM3 Stage one next but my MAP Sensor needs to be cleaned (noticed a small amount of oil residue on it and I don't have any CRC MAF Spray. Additionally, my green o-ring had a small cut or tear that must have been created on removal.

So -- tomorrow I will head to dealership for 0-ring and pick up some MAF spray prior to starting the car up.

I will check for boost leaks and how she runs. Going to start with new coil packs and plugs prior to BM3 Stage 1 only. Seems like S-2 is great but comes with many little bugs and cels hence only Stage One .


Good Luck!
Yeah, I cleaned my MAF sensor just the other day just to eliminate that variable.

Good luck with your build. Perhaps I should try a Stage 2 91 octane tune instead of the Stage 2 93 octane. Maybe the fuel at my local Sheetz isn't up to snuff.
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      03-01-2020, 08:54 PM   #4
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Quick Update

I threw the stock intake back on. All symptoms remain. The car actually stalled today too (it's an 8 speed auto) at a stop sign. I suspect it's because I cannot clear the codes and reset the adaptations bootmod3 made while the Injen intake was on. I also plan to flash the stage 2 91 octane tune on instead of the 93 octane.

Unfortunately I cannot get the boodmod3 OBD agent to connect to my car now. It keeps telling me to disconnect my battery for 3 minutes. I've gotten this error before and disconnect the battery has fixed the issue, but this time round it's not. I've disconnected it 10-15 time with no luck. Not sure why it's not working all of a sudden. The laptop recognizes the ethernet cable is connected to a device so I don't believe it's a cable issue?
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      03-01-2020, 09:08 PM   #5
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flash stock tune and see how that drives to rule out the tune. if problems persist, then most likely a hardware problem since you did it all at once.

you can certainly reset adaptations within the bm3, in the diagnostics tab, while there, you can clear your codes too since you swapped back to stock intake and see if the codes come back.

finally, your connectivity issue.. is due to the car dme getting hung up assigning IP or something to the laptop, that's why it's recommended to pull battery, wait 3 minutes, then reconnect to reset everything. i do not know why that method no longer works for you though.. the car should go to a hard sleep after 15 or 30 mins and that would solve the issue too.
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      03-01-2020, 09:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
flash stock tune and see how that drives to rule out the tune. if problems persist, then most likely a hardware problem since you did it all at once.

you can certainly reset adaptations within the bm3, in the diagnostics tab, while there, you can clear your codes too since you swapped back to stock intake and see if the codes come back.

finally, your connectivity issue.. is due to the car dme getting hung up assigning IP or something to the laptop, that's why it's recommended to pull battery, wait 3 minutes, then reconnect to reset everything. i do not know why that method no longer works for you though.. the car should go to a hard sleep after 15 or 30 mins and that would solve the issue too.
It'll be OK to run the stock tune with all the bolt ons? I'll give that a go. I've already been over the entire install but it's certainly not out of the question that something could be wrong hardware wise.

I've returned to the car multiple times after letting it sit for long periods with the battery unplugged, and after driving it for a while, etc. Nothing is working yet. I have a hard time believing the cable has suddenly gone bad, but I'm not sure what else it could be.
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      03-01-2020, 10:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliptality View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
flash stock tune and see how that drives to rule out the tune. if problems persist, then most likely a hardware problem since you did it all at once.

you can certainly reset adaptations within the bm3, in the diagnostics tab, while there, you can clear your codes too since you swapped back to stock intake and see if the codes come back.

finally, your connectivity issue.. is due to the car dme getting hung up assigning IP or something to the laptop, that's why it's recommended to pull battery, wait 3 minutes, then reconnect to reset everything. i do not know why that method no longer works for you though.. the car should go to a hard sleep after 15 or 30 mins and that would solve the issue too.
It'll be OK to run the stock tune with all the bolt ons? I'll give that a go. I've already been over the entire install but it's certainly not out of the question that something could be wrong hardware wise.

I've returned to the car multiple times after letting it sit for long periods with the battery unplugged, and after driving it for a while, etc. Nothing is working yet. I have a hard time believing the cable has suddenly gone bad, but I'm not sure what else it could be.
Stock tune would give you cel due to catless dp. You could remedy this by configuring the stock tune to disable cat monitoring.

You wouldn't be the first with a bad cable.. It's possible. You haven't shcnaged anything on your laptop right? Haven't installed any new programs that would make changes to firewall?
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      03-02-2020, 11:04 AM   #8
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Did you reach out to PTF?
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      03-02-2020, 03:43 PM   #9
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Transfer case. I made a thread about this same issue, once I turned xDelete on (RWD mode) I no longer felt the stuttering/rough acceleration https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1686839
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      03-02-2020, 06:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Did you reach out to PTF?
I did! I'm in the talks with them now. So far haven't figured anything new out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f20two View Post
Transfer case. I made a thread about this same issue, once I turned xDelete on (RWD mode) I no longer felt the stuttering/rough acceleration https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1686839
I've never even heard of xDelete. Is this a feature?! I have a 2015 but it seems you do as well. I have actually been inquiring to a couple places near me (before I even started modding) about doing a transmission and xfer case fluid change because I know the fluid should really be changed at 60K miles (lifetime... lol). So far the only quotes I have been able to get for the job are $600+. The dealership actually quoted me the least

EDIT: Also, as a side note, I'm not sure the transfer case would cause my car to stall. I stalled again today as I came to a stop at a stop sign. I could be wrong, though... Is it easy to change out transmission/xfer case fluid yourself? I'm no mechanic, but I installed the stage 2 parts with a buddy and it was a breeze for the most part.

Last edited by Sliptality; 03-02-2020 at 06:40 PM..
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      03-02-2020, 06:53 PM   #11
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Sounds like a vacuum leak regarding the stalling. Check your charge pipe very closely and the connections to the intercooler, both sides.
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      03-02-2020, 10:08 PM   #12
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Update: I used a different laptop and it connected. I was able to reflash the 93 octane, reset adaptations, and clear the CEL codes. Although, two climate control codes won't clear. They don't trigger the CEL though.

Off the bat, it had a rough idle at 600rpm for a while but then cleared up. I have the cold start deactivated. I'll have a chance to drive it tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Sounds like a vacuum leak regarding the stalling. Check your
charge pipe very closely and the connections to the intercooler, both sides.
I did go over the entire install once already. All the metal clips holding the connections together are all seated and snapped in. I can check it again but I recon the tune adapted to the airflow of the injen intake and when I threw the stock one back on without changing the tune (because my laptop wouldn't connect) it caused some issues. That was the only scenario in which it stalled (so far). I'm not ruling a vacuum leak out, though. Now that I'm reflashed I'll be able to test it tomorrow.

EDIT: Here's a log I got with the stage 2 91 octane flash where it was idling very rough. This is the stock intake right after a fresh flash: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e5dd2d8d10b4369882e136e

Last edited by Sliptality; 03-02-2020 at 10:22 PM..
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      03-03-2020, 07:04 AM   #13
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Didn't you happen to notice the timing being pulled? Two cylinders are off what the others are doing. Maybe, maybe not the issue. Certainly isn't good. Injectors? Plugs or coils? Or am I seeing something wrong? And to check the transfer case oil like F22 suggests really isn't a big deal too. But always with modding, you start there. Back out of what was changed before the problem appeared. Of course the problem might be unrelated too.

Good luck!
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      03-03-2020, 04:09 PM   #14
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Here are the codes it is throwing. This is a fresh Stage 2 93 Octane flash, all codes cleared beforehand (I did all of this last night), and with the STOCK intake and STOCK air filter. I drove a 40 mile commute today. This is what CELs are on.



The Air Mass code seems to be the most concerning. Somehow I don't feel that the other codes are real? Some input here would be nice.

I already cleaned the MAF sensor already during a different troubleshooting process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Didn't you happen to notice the timing being pulled? Two cylinders are off what the others are doing. Maybe, maybe not the issue. Certainly isn't good. Injectors? Plugs or coils? Or am I seeing something wrong? And to check the transfer case oil like F22 suggests really isn't a big deal too. But always with modding, you start there. Back out of what was changed before the problem appeared. Of course the problem might be unrelated too.

Good luck!
I didn't. I am no expert! I did note in my original post I noticed that the ignition timing was off in certain areas, but I didn't know what to conclude from it.

Last edited by Sliptality; 03-03-2020 at 04:15 PM.. Reason: I'm a chronic editor
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      03-04-2020, 06:07 PM   #15
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Update

SOOOOOOO this time around, when installing the stock intake, I forgot to tighten down the hose clamp on the intake

Take 2: Tightened the intake... Reset adaptations, cleared codes. Here's a 3rd gear pull: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e60...0b434f93977b5e

I notice the ignition timings are a little different at the very top of 3rd gear and through 4th, any input on these logs? How do they look? I'm certainly no expert.
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      04-07-2020, 07:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliptality View Post
SOOOOOOO this time around, when installing the stock intake, I forgot to tighten down the hose clamp on the intake

Take 2: Tightened the intake... Reset adaptations, cleared codes. Here's a 3rd gear pull: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e60...0b434f93977b5e

I notice the ignition timings are a little different at the very top of 3rd gear and through 4th, any input on these logs? How do they look? I'm certainly no expert.
Did you ever figure out your issue? I'm going through similar stuttering issues and it feels like a misfire. I'm going to replace my plugs with the NGK iridium plugs and gap them to .023.
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      06-02-2020, 06:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliptality View Post
Here are the codes it is throwing. This is a fresh Stage 2 93 Octane flash, all codes cleared beforehand (I did all of this last night), and with the STOCK intake and STOCK air filter. I drove a 40 mile commute today. This is what CELs are on.



The Air Mass code seems to be the most concerning. Somehow I don't feel that the other codes are real? Some input here would be nice.

I already cleaned the MAF sensor already during a different troubleshooting process.



I didn't. I am no expert! I did note in my original post I noticed that the ignition timing was off in certain areas, but I didn't know what to conclude from it.
The air mass scaling issue is usually related to an aftermarket intake flowing more then what the engine expects. Very common with Dinan intakes too.
Open a ticket with ptf, and they will help you
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      06-02-2020, 06:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliptality View Post
SOOOOOOO this time around, when installing the stock intake, I forgot to tighten down the hose clamp on the intake

Take 2: Tightened the intake... Reset adaptations, cleared codes. Here's a 3rd gear pull: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e60...0b434f93977b5e

I notice the ignition timings are a little different at the very top of 3rd gear and through 4th, any input on these logs? How do they look? I'm certainly no expert.

You have a fueling issues. In the log. Select the ďstftĒ to view short term fuel trim. Anything over .8 is not good.
I would recommend opening a ticket with ptf support. Donít drive the card hard till itís addressed. Cruising and normal driving should be fine.
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      06-09-2020, 11:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliptality View Post
SOOOOOOO this time around, when installing the stock intake, I forgot to tighten down the hose clamp on the intake

Take 2: Tightened the intake... Reset adaptations, cleared codes. Here's a 3rd gear pull: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e60...0b434f93977b5e

I notice the ignition timings are a little different at the very top of 3rd gear and through 4th, any input on these logs? How do they look? I'm certainly no expert.
I would check all your connections downstream of the turbo. Your WGDC is extremely high during the entire pull and your boost never reaches the target pointing at a boost leak downstream of the turbo. There might be multiple things going on too.... Good luck!
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      06-10-2020, 08:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalderks View Post
I would check all your connections downstream of the turbo. Your WGDC is extremely high during the entire pull and your boost never reaches the target pointing at a boost leak downstream of the turbo. There might be multiple things going on too.... Good luck!

Agreed, maybe do a smoke test
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