[trilax59]

Hey everyone. Unfortunately a few days ago my beautiful 2015 M235i xDrive was subject to flood waters and was declared a total loss by the insurance company. I was driving through a deep, but driveable puddle when a car in the opposite direction pushed a wave of water over my car. This lead to water getting sucked up through the intake and into the cylinders, resulting in a bent crank shaft.

However, it is time to start looking for a new car and I wanted to come here for some advice. I am stuck deciding between the 6MT RWD or auto xDrive. I plan to keep the car for as long as possible and it would be my daily driver through all four seasons up here in the Northeast region. The car will likely not be tracked for the time being, but I do weekend canyon runs often and might do an AutoX event every now and then.

Reasoning for 6MT RWD:

I have never learned to drive a manual and really want to learn before the car industry switches over to electric cars and only automatic transmissions. I also like the RWD version because it is lighter, and much more mod friendly in terms of suspension components. However, even with winter tires, the RWD won't be as good as the xDrive and power modifications might make it hard to actually put that power down effectively.

Reasoning for AUTO xDrive:

If I am going automatic transmission, I might as well get xDrive for increased traction for power and daily driving reliability. The xDrive is phenomenal in the winter with winter tires and puts down power like it's nobody's business! However, the xDrive is a little heavier than the RWD and is much more difficult with aftermarket suspension modifications.

I am sure I missed some things, but this is generally how I feel about the two choices. I appreciate all your help and advice in advance.

[overcoil]

BMW 6-speed is too expensive to learn to manipulate a manual transmission on.

[thebmw]

You live once. There is nothing like a 6spd manual. It's like playing a real acoustic instrument (guitar, piano) vs. an iPad app that plays music. One is more visceral and fun. The other is faster and more accurate. Your choice

You have the rest of your life to drive AWD, automatic, and electric.

[Jnat]

I think the answer lies in what type of car do you want. Meaning?
1) Auto with AWD = traction, straight line acceleration, also equals a little more weight, more things to break.
2) Manual with RWD = more of a drivers car, better on twisties and road type courses.
My preference is traction and straight line acceleration so I have 8speed with awd and think it's unreal/great.

[MetalMK]

The 6speed in 2er is not that good, especially for people who have little experience. The phenomenal ZF 8AT is both fast and efficient. I would want an auto with RWD if the place you live does not snow much, even if it does, RWD can handle some snow with winter tires

[Sportstick]

An automatic transmission provides 0% of the entertainment/engagement of the manual transmission, by definition. However, as a "survivor" of decades of midwest winters, I came to realize that the best winter tires (Blizzak WS90, Michelin XIce xi3) on RWD provide about 90% of the capability of those same tires on XDrive. Keep in mind, cars don't have traction; tires have traction as the only part touching the ground. XDrive just helps a bit by adding power to the front tires when tire traction is low at the rear, assuming the surface under the front tires is that much better. And, all of this concern is for a fraction of the year. Shame to sacrifice the rest of the year for that last 10%.

[trilax59]

I have winter tires (Michelin Alpin PA4) to use for the winter. Not to sound arrogant, but I like to think I am a fairly good driver and a very fast learner.

I don't need to be the fastest car, I just want to enjoy the car and driving experience. However, the reliability with an automatic and AWD is also appealing.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by trilax59

I have winter tires (Michelin Alpin PA4) to use for the winter. Not to sound arrogant, but I like to think I am a fairly good driver and a very fast learner.

I don't need to be the fastest car, I just want to enjoy the car and driving experience. However, the reliability with an automatic and AWD is also appealing.

The winter tires ("performance winter") you have are a half-step from ordinary all-seasons to the most capable "studless', such as the next step up in the Michelin product line, the XIce xi3. If you find PA4 acceptable with XDrive, you will be more than winter-capable with the XIce on RWD. Winter success is far more about the tires than the car.

[Jashue]

I'm six months in with a 240 XDrive. It's the best car I have ever owned. The ZF eight-speed is indeed a masterpiece. Having said that though, I'd kill to have this car with a manual. I have never heard that the six-speed that is offered is sub-par as some have mentioned, but I cannot imagine it's THAT bad. Time is running out... everyone should know the joy of a stick shift. Get it while you can!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Jashue

I have never heard that the six-speed that is offered is sub-par as some have mentioned, but I cannot imagine it's THAT bad!

It’s not at all. Smooth, low effort, and just a slight nice notchy feeling. Critics are everywhere expecting everything to be a Miata. Five years in and still in car-love with my manual trans 2 Series.

[BenDiem]

...However, even with winter tires, the RWD won't be as good as the xDrive and power modifications might make it hard to actually put that power down effectively.

Reasoning for AUTO xDrive:

If I am going automatic transmission, I might as well get xDrive for increased traction for power and daily driving reliability. The xDrive is phenomenal in the winter with winter tires and puts down power like it's nobody's business! However, the xDrive is a little heavier than the RWD and is much more difficult with aftermarket suspension modifications.

^^^ I'd say you answered your question/concern above...
In December 2017, I purchased a manual Subaru WRX. I bought it b/c I wanted to know what all the fuss was about the WRX. Granted, I'm a huge boxer engine fan; I'm a huge 911 & BMW motorcycle fan; hence, why I bought a WRX...
Long & short, after the novelty wore off, within six months or so, I began to hate it. Driving a DD manual was a big mistake! Manual is a big pain in the arse if you DD a manual; city driving was a pain in the arse!

Fifteen months later, I traded the WRX in on a new BMW. When I ordered my 2019 240i X-drive, I went straight to an Auto! Best move I ever made! Absolutely no regrets!

GL/Cheers,

B

[Luftwaffe1O1]

It comes down to preference, the 6 speed is great, but there is no denying the ZF8 equipped cars are considerably faster. But on twisty mountain roads, the 6 speed is a lot more fun and engaging.

So it really depends what you would prefer. My Z3 is 5spd so honestly I just pick and choose when I feel like driving what. But not like the 2er is not fun with an auto even on the back roads, I find myself using the paddles quite often, and it is almost as rewarding.

[babaikram]

Isn't this why ZF AT is semi automatic? I always drive using the paddles with the gear stick to the left in manual. Almost always in Sport+. And m240i is my DD. I don't enjoy driving in full automatic at all .

Thus you have the total involvement in the car dynamics and the enjoyment. Whilst you are able to rest your left foot

So the semi automatic ZF AT all the way

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by babaikram

Thus you have the total involvement in the car dynamics and the enjoyment. Whilst you are able to rest your left foot.

Respectfully, these two statements constitute an oxymoron. By definition, "total involvement" includes all four limbs and activating those cortical areas which control and synchronize them. You are advocating no more than 3/4 involvement.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Respectfully, these two statements constitute an oxymoron. By definition, "total involvement" includes all four limbs and activating those cortical areas which control and synchronize them. You are advocating no more than 3/4 involvement.

So, if a driver puts the auto in manual mode and uses both paddles, then left foot brakes like an F1 driver, by your definition that would constitute "total involvement".

My advice to the OP is to hold off buying a new car for a few months. Get a beater Honda Civic manual and drive that until you're used to it. Then decide if the MT is as much fun as you hope it will be. If you wind up getting a MT for the BMW the drivetrain will thank you. If not, you'll know you made the right decision.

If you decide on a manual for the BMW it would be a good idea to get a test drive. It likely will have more computer interference in the throttle response during shifting than the 10 year old Civic, which could be disappointing if like me you find that sort of thing annoying.

[Aspen235]

The manual is easy to drive. My 18 Year old daughter is learning to drive manual and autoxing it. No issues.
Autos are definitely better in heavy traffic and hilly stop and go. They get better fuel economy and are faster. They are not as engaging or fun IMHO.

[againsttherage]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

The 6speed in 2er is not that good, especially for people who have little experience. The phenomenal ZF 8AT is both fast and efficient. I would want an auto with RWD if the place you live does not snow much, even if it does, RWD can handle some snow with winter tires

I've driven a number of manual cars and the m240 is by far the most smooth and easy to shift of the bunch. The brake hold to start is quite nice and would make it easy for a beginner. Same with the rev matching.

[Rocky58]

Regarding the winter handling issue: I think a key factor is whether you have hills. I had a RWD manual Infiniti G35 that was a blast to drive. I had to have snow tires to be able to drive it in the winter. Driving a fast car with all seasons in the summer just takes a lot of the fun out of it compared to sticky tires. However, I could not get up the steep hill to get home in snow even with snow tires. The Subaru could get up the hill with all season tires but the traction was terrible and was very slippery on flat and on hills. So, I found that AWD is really helpful getting up hills, and from a standstill, especially if there are idiots in front of you so that you have to stop and start going up. But winter tires are really important for safety no matter if you have RWD or AWD. A RWD car with any kind of tires can be a problem in areas with significant hills.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by MetalMK

The 6speed in 2er is not that good, especially for people who have little experience. The phenomenal ZF 8AT is both fast and efficient. I would want an auto with RWD if the place you live does not snow much, even if it does, RWD can handle some snow with winter tires

Totally false statement in regards to the manual gearbox not being good - the rest of your comments are fair, however. The M240i 6-speed is absolutely wonderful in all ways. I've owned and driven several manuals and this car is among the best. Shifting feel is accurate and direct. It just pops into the next gear without any fuss and without any doubt that you engaged the correct gear. Clutch weight is just right and although the long throw has caused some complaining from owners, I will say that all it takes is getting used to it (as you must do with all new manual cars, really) and now I wouldn't want it any other way. One thing that stands out with it is how robust the synchros are and how easy it is to shift from 1st to 2nd even on a hard launch with WOT and going to redline. On my 997.1 Carrera S and 2016 WRX, I experienced the occasional grinding on a 1-2 shift and eventually the feeling of going into 2nd gear became soft and unsure. It has never happened in my M240i and engaging 2nd gear is still as lovely as the day I bought it. I could go on and on, but point is that BMW offers a superb 6-speed gearbox in this car.

As for OP's primary dilemma, my vote is for 6-speed RWD, BUT only if you plan to add the M Performance limited-slip differential upgrade at some point. Without it, you are NOT getting the full experience of what this car has to offer in terms of outright fun and performance. The car with the stock open diff is a complete waste of time and money. If you know you'll never get it, then just get the auto/xDrive. Actually, RWD + auto is an option as well if you order the car to spec. For a true daily driver, the ZF auto can make things pretty convenient while RWD still offers good fun and better driving dynamics. LSD still essential, of course. Just my opinion.

You'll be happy with whatever you end up going with. These cars are amazing and you simply can't go wrong!

[MetalMK]

Originally Posted by CP911

Totally false statement in regards to the manual gearbox not being good - the rest of your comments are fair, however. The M240i 6-speed is absolutely wonderful in all ways. I've owned and driven several manuals and this car is among the best. Shifting feel is accurate and direct. It just pops into the next gear without any fuss and without any doubt that you engaged the correct gear. Clutch weight is just right and although the long throw has caused some complaining from owners, I will say that all it takes is getting used to it (as you must do with all new manual cars, really) and now I wouldn't want it any other way. One thing that stands out with it is how robust the synchros are and how easy it is to shift from 1st to 2nd even on a hard launch with WOT and going to redline. On my 997.1 Carrera S and 2016 WRX, I experienced the occasional grinding on a 1-2 shift and eventually the feeling of going into 2nd gear became soft and unsure. It has never happened in my M240i and engaging 2nd gear is still as lovely as the day I bought it. I could go on and on, but point is that BMW offers a superb 6-speed gearbox in this car.

As for OP's primary dilemma, my vote is for 6-speed RWD, BUT only if you plan to add the M Performance limited-slip differential upgrade at some point. Without it, you are NOT getting the full experience of what this car has to offer in terms of outright fun and performance. The car with the stock open diff is a complete waste of time and money. If you know you'll never get it, then just get the auto/xDrive. Actually, RWD + auto is an option as well if you order the car to spec. For a true daily driver, the ZF auto can make things pretty convenient while RWD still offers good fun and better driving dynamics. LSD still essential, of course. Just my opinion.

You'll be happy with whatever you end up going with. These cars are amazing and you simply can't go wrong!

Calm down!

What I was trying to say was: Compare to the ZF 8AT, the 6 speed does not have the same performance, it is does not change gears as fast as the automatic, it is less efficient because it keeps engine speed really high while doing highway speeds. It is also unfriendly to new drivers because if he destroys the clutch, a clutch replacement would be much more expensive than a civic. Nevertheless, the driving experience in the 6 speed is much more engaging, but for daily driving, the automatic is better.

[madmax240]

Originally Posted by CP911

Totally false statement in regards to the manual gearbox not being good - the rest of your comments are fair, however. The M240i 6-speed is absolutely wonderful in all ways. I've owned and driven several manuals and this car is among the best. Shifting feel is accurate and direct. It just pops into the next gear without any fuss and without any doubt that you engaged the correct gear. Clutch weight is just right and although the long throw has caused some complaining from owners, I will say that all it takes is getting used to it (as you must do with all new manual cars, really) and now I wouldn't want it any other way. One thing that stands out with it is how robust the synchros are and how easy it is to shift from 1st to 2nd even on a hard launch with WOT and going to redline. On my 997.1 Carrera S and 2016 WRX, I experienced the occasional grinding on a 1-2 shift and eventually the feeling of going into 2nd gear became soft and unsure. It has never happened in my M240i and engaging 2nd gear is still as lovely as the day I bought it. I could go on and on, but point is that BMW offers a superb 6-speed gearbox in this car.

As for OP's primary dilemma, my vote is for 6-speed RWD, BUT only if you plan to add the M Performance limited-slip differential upgrade at some point. Without it, you are NOT getting the full experience of what this car has to offer in terms of outright fun and performance. The car with the stock open diff is a complete waste of time and money. If you know you'll never get it, then just get the auto/xDrive. Actually, RWD + auto is an option as well if you order the car to spec. For a true daily driver, the ZF auto can make things pretty convenient while RWD still offers good fun and better driving dynamics. LSD still essential, of course. Just my opinion.

You'll be happy with whatever you end up going with. These cars are amazing and you simply can't go wrong!

I have to jump in. You might have got a good manual gear box. but the one in my 2017 M240i is not one of the greats. I've pretty much had manual cars for most of my driving life. And there are cheap hatch backs with better gearboxes than the 6MT in my M240i.



It's rubbery in it's feel, it baulks at fast shifts, and it's not really synced with the clutch. It's no surprise because this gearbox has to handle 500Nm of torque, so it has to have big components. Which means a lot of inertia, which means, if you get the revs wrong, the syncros wear out faster. which is why BMW implemented rev matching.


My last car was a 2007 Subaru Legacy GT-B, it didn't have a great gearbox, but it was still better than my current one. The best manual I've used was in a 2010 Audi TT-S. It was a perfect example of all the superlatives people throw around. Slick, smooth, bolt-rifle action. too bad it understeered like a toyota.


If OP wants to learn manual, unless you have a high degree of mechanical sympathy, get the auto and buy a cheap manual hatch back to learn in. it won't take long, so you can sell it soon after.

[Poochie]

Some of you auto tranny guys are in denial.

Yes, the ZF auto shifting is lightening fast and it makes even a 4 cylinder turbos feel peppy.

However, nothing, no paddle or auto shifting lever would ever replace the tactile, visceral feedback a manual shifter affords.

I had a 240i xDrive loaner car for a few days and it felt quicker than my M2. It was a great experience and loved every second driving it but the paddle shifter got old, very fast, so I just left it in auto to do its own thing, as it was intended.

I couldn't wait to jump back in my 'slow, rubbery shifting' manual. If I have to explain why, you're not a true stick aficionado and would never see my perspective or be swayed elsewhere.

Stick to auto and quit trying to justify your choice at the expense of unreasonable bashing the manual option