[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by knoteasy25

What wheels do you have on in this picture, they look to have nice concavity. Do you recommend them?
Thanks

See my sig

Great bang for the buck wheel that's also does not weigh much.

[knoteasy25]

Sorry i don't know why I am not seeing your signature.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by knoteasy25

Sorry i don't know why I am not seeing your signature.

I'm running Sportline 8s wheels. They just released a 7s that's supposed to be lighter, but don't have them in the same 8s sizes

[knoteasy25]

Hahah those are the same exact ones I was going to get, haven't pulled the trigger because I am concerned that they will have too much poke,
With 9.5 Et 45 at rear and 8.5 et 32 at front

[Pnorth]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Just to add to the square setup info (we should have a square setup sticky).

My setup:
18x9.5 +45
255/35 RE71R
20mm front spacer (make sure you have extended studs or lug bolts)
Front fender roll (not sure if required, but did it preemptively)
KW Clubsports (comes with camber plates)
Shorter front main spring to raise lower coilover perch (gains inner clearance).
3* front camber
2.5* rear camber

265 square may work, but then it becomes a matter of rear fender clearance.

Pics with suspension compressed:

Hi Anthony,
Great looking car and interesting read!
Just to make sure I am reading this correctly... are you saying 20mm spacer up front? How does it all get in there? Is it the 3 camber that does it?
I was just picturing in my head - the stock wheel is 7,5 - you've added 2 inches and the original 7,5 wheel will sit app flush with a 15mm spacer. The added wheel width is 2 inches = 50.8mm, so unless something else changes this completely your wheel should be far outside the fender. I would very much like to do this set up myself - even a 265 since the Michelin Cup2 doesn't come in a 255/18. I have seen a picture of a 265 square set up, but I haven't been able to find out the numbers.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Pnorth

Hi Anthony,
Great looking car and interesting read!
Just to make sure I am reading this correctly... are you saying 20mm spacer up front? How does it all get in there? Is it the 3 camber that does it?
I was just picturing in my head - the stock wheel is 7,5 - you've added 2 inches and the original 7,5 wheel will sit app flush with a 15mm spacer. The added wheel width is 2 inches = 50.8mm, so unless something else changes this completely your wheel should be far outside the fender. I would very much like to do this set up myself - even a 265 since the Michelin Cup2 doesn't come in a 255/18. I have seen a picture of a 265 square set up, but I haven't been able to find out the numbers.

Correct. 20mm spacer up front. So with the spacer I'm running 18x9.5 +25.

A 15mm spacer would work for some people, but I needed 20mm to clear the remote reservoir on my coilovers. 15mm rubbed.

You will not be able to do this without some way to add camber up front. Before alignment there was serious poke. 3* camber is a bigger difference than most people realize.

I *think* I could run a 265 up front. Not sure it would clear the back though.

The challenge up front isn't so much the outside fender clearance. The challenge is clearing the front suspension.

Which is why coilovers that have a low bottom perch (coilovers using helper springs) will rub the the tire/wheel against the perch. Like my KW Clubsports.

Which is why I swapped the front main springs to shorter ones. Allowing me to raise the lower perch above the wheel line. Impact to spring travel is minimal if you get springs that have a thinner coil and if you don't slam your ride height.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by knoteasy25

Hahah those are the same exact ones I was going to get, haven't pulled the trigger because I am concerned that they will have too much poke,
With 9.5 Et 45 at rear and 8.5 et 32 at front

I would do the 8.5 +45 up front. Gives you more room to play with spacers and tire width. If you want to get that perfect flush fitment you mentioned in your other thread.

I have a pair for sale.

[Pnorth]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Correct. 20mm spacer up front. So with the spacer I'm running 18x9.5 +25.

A 15mm spacer would work for some people, but I needed 20mm to clear the remote reservoir on my coilovers. 15mm rubbed.

You will not be able to do this without some way to add camber up front. Before alignment there was serious poke. 3* camber is a bigger difference than most people realize.

I *think* I could run a 265 up front. Not sure it would clear the back though.

The challenge up front isn't so much the outside fender clearance. The challenge is clearing the front suspension.

Which is why coilovers that have a low bottom perch (coilovers using helper springs) will rub the the tire/wheel against the perch. Like my KW Clubsports.

Which is why I swapped the front main springs to shorter ones. Allowing me to raise the lower perch above the wheel line. Impact to spring travel is minimal if you get springs that have a thinner coil and if you don't slam your ride height.

Thanks for the detailed reply, Anthony. This is interesting.

So, if I understand correctly - you had two issues, the reservoirs and perch. As a result of clearing the reservoirs you needed to get the perch farther up with the camber you're using? I then assume you have the club sport 3 with the reservoirs attached to the damper, but if you had a remote reservoir, as I intend, how would or could that have changed your set up? Also, are you using your car as a dd? How does the 3 camber affect this?

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Pnorth

Thanks for the detailed reply, Anthony. This is interesting.

So, if I understand correctly - you had two issues, the reservoirs and perch. As a result of clearing the reservoirs you needed to get the perch farther up with the camber you're using? I then assume you have the club sport 3 with the reservoirs attached to the damper, but if you had a remote reservoir, as I intend, how would or could that have changed your set up? Also, are you using your car as a dd? How does the 3 camber affect this?

Correct, those two issues. But they are separate issues (one did not cause the other), but with the same solution for my setup (spacers).

I have the Clubsports (above the V3). Not sure what you're asking about the reservoir and the change of setup.

Car is my DD and occasional track car. How does camber effect what specifically? Tire wear...toe settings effect tire wear more than camber.



Pic of clearance issue to give you and idea (before I went square). Now imagine a 1" wider wheel and 255 tires....

Front wheel is 18x8.5 +45. There is also a 12mm spacer in there. Stock PSS 225 tire. No rubbing here, but very close:

[Pnorth]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Correct, those two issues. But they are separate issues (one did not cause the other), but with the same solution for my setup (spacers).

I have the Clubsports (above the V3). Not sure what you're asking about the reservoir and the change of setup.

Car is my DD and occasional track car. How does camber effect what specifically? Tire wear...toe settings effect tire wear more than camber.



Pic of clearance issue to give you and idea (before I went square). Now imagine a 1" wider wheel and 255 tires....

Front wheel is 18x8.5 +45. There is also a 12mm spacer in there. Stock PSS 225 tire. No rubbing here, but very close:

Nice and tight... Hard to imagine wider anything :-)

What I meant to ask was if the camber makes the car tracing back and forth on a normal road with little wear in the wheel tracks or if it is straight as an arrow?

And with regards to the reservoirs my question was if you had remote reservoirs would you then be able to have less of a camber or a narrower spacer, since you mentioned that it was a clearance issue there also?

And thanks again for answering all of my questions :-)

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Pnorth

Nice and tight... Hard to imagine wider anything :-)

What I meant to ask was if the camber makes the car tracing back and forth on a normal road with little wear in the wheel tracks or if it is straight as an arrow?

And with regards to the reservoirs my question was if you had remote reservoirs would you then be able to have less of a camber or a narrower spacer, since you mentioned that it was a clearance issue there also?

And thanks again for answering all of my questions :-)

So you can see in the above picture why you need to raise the lower perch to run an aggressive setup in the front. I want to reiterate that all the "custom" work I did is not needed if you're not going to run an wide tire/wheel up front. Also if I went with a different coilover it probably would not have been an issue.

I do have remote reservoirs. Do you mean with a remote line so you can mount them off the shock body? Without the remote reservoir located on the shock body I could have ran a narrower spacer. Spacer is still needed even with my raised perch. Raised perch allows the wheel lip to clear the perch, but tire sidewall is still an issue. Hence you still need a spacer; just a narrower one.

Car does not trace the pavement with my camber. I've had that really bad in some of my other cars running a track alignment.

Here is my original coilover thread:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1321230

[Pnorth]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

So you can see in the above picture why you need to raise the lower perch to run an aggressive setup in the front. I want to reiterate that all the "custom" work I did is not needed if you're not going to run an wide tire/wheel up front. Also if I went with a different coilover it probably would not have been an issue.

I do have remote reservoirs. Do you mean with a remote line so you can mount them off the shock body? Without the remote reservoir located on the shock body I could have ran a narrower spacer. Spacer is still needed even with my raised perch. Raised perch allows the wheel lip to clear the perch, but tire sidewall is still an issue. Hence you still need a spacer; just a narrower one.

Car does not trace the pavement with my camber. I've had that really bad in some of my other cars running a track alignment.

Here is my original coilover thread:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1321230

Yes, that is what I meant with remote - off the shock body. I am going with the JRZ RS Pro Sport and I will place the front reservoirs in the engine compartment.

Great to hear it doesn't trace - was worried about that.

I will check out your coilover thread, but something seems to be wrong with this website today - keep having to reload the page and try ten times to post a reply.

However, here is the link to the 265 square I had seen: https://europeanautosource.com/blog/m2-or-m235i.html

I wrote them and asked for ET, camber etc to achieve this set up - but they replied with what wheels apex recommend for F22 and not what I asked, so I still don't know.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by Pnorth

Yes, that is what I meant with remote - off the shock body. I am going with the JRZ RS Pro Sport and I will place the front reservoirs in the engine compartment.

Great to hear it doesn't trace - was worried about that.

I will check out your coilover thread, but something seems to be wrong with this website today - keep having to reload the page and try ten times to post a reply.

However, here is the link to the 265 square I had seen: https://europeanautosource.com/blog/m2-or-m235i.html

I wrote them and asked for ET, camber etc to achieve this set up - but they replied with what wheels apex recommend for F22 and not what I asked, so I still don't know.

You might have the same issue with the lower perch rubbing up front if you go square with those coilovers.

EAS didn't setup that car so that's why they didn't give you the correct answer. The specs on that car at EAS is:

Front:
18x9.5 +35 with a 3mm spacer

Rear:
18x9.5 +58

Weird sizes if you ask me. Can't rotate the wheels/tires.

Also 265 rubbed the inner liner in the rear on that car.

Yes, the forum has been iffy the last few days.

[ApexWheels]

Very nice OP! Thank you for sharing, we greatly appreciate your support.

The EC-7's are currently available on Group Buy, so now is a great time for 2 series enthusiasts to get dialed in before the season

- Ryan

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

EAS didn't setup that car so that's why they didn't give you the correct answer. The specs on that car at EAS is:

Front:
18x9.5 +35 with a 3mm spacer

Rear:
18x9.5 +58

Weird sizes if you ask me. Can't rotate the wheels/tires.

Also 265 rubbed the inner liner in the rear on that car.

Yes, the forum has been iffy the last few days.

You are correct, the black M235i was set-up by Brett Strom of Strom Motorsports. He choose the 18x9.5 ET35 front, and 18x9.5" ET58 rear layout for good reason. As many of you know, the 1 and 2 series chassis do not lend themselves to wide, track oriented square wheel & tire fitments. Proper inner strut and outer fender clearance with a 9.5" wide wheel is met only when axle specific offsets are used. To your point, in a perfect world enthusiasts would be able to run the same width and offsets from front to rear, allowing them to rotate effectively. If the 18x9.5" ET35 wheel was used in the rear, significant rear fender modifications/alterations would have been required. A simply fender roll and negative camber would not have sufficed.

Brett's goal for the car was likely to maximize front and rear end grip, while maintaining a balance that only a square fitment could provide. Brett has a solid resume when it comes to building and piloting race cars.

Technically the 18x9.5" ET58 wheel could have been used up front, however the car would have needed tremendously thick spacers to gain enough inner clearance to the strut (something like 30-35mm), and that was clearly not a viable option.

Keep in mind the 9.5" wheel width is really only warranted if a track warrior is set on running wide 265 tires. A majority of enthusiasts would be okay with running 255/35-18 tires, and in that case we would suggest the 18x9" ET42 wheel, as this can be ran as a true, rotatable square fitment with small spacers up front to clear your struts. In addition, the wheel face profile would match cohesively from front to rear unlike the fitment mentioned above. If the goal is to run 245's, the 18x8.5" ET35/38 wheels can be used in a true, rotatable square format as well.

If anyone has any fitment questions, please feel free to let us know.

-Ryan

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Proper inner strut and outer fender clearance with a 9.5" wide wheel is met only when axle specific offsets are used.

-Ryan

Have to disagree there. You don't need different offset front and back for 9.5" wide to work. Just need the right offset and suspension setup.

[ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

Have to disagree there. You don't need different offset front and back for 9.5" wide to work. Just need the right offset and suspension setup.

Happy to discuss.

In order to fit 9.5" wheels wrapped in 265 RE-71R's under the front fenders of the 2 series, one would need an offset around ET25. This assumes you are using suspension that utilizes linear springs and a spring perch location that is above the wheel and tire for maximum clearance. If you are using KW's variants, KW Clusports, Bilsteins etc. you can plan on needing an extra 5mm of clearance, thus lowering the offset requirement. This is of course unless you modify the suspension, like removing the helper springs off the Clubsports and purchase shorter replacement springs in effort to riase the spring perch (I believe you went this route).

In order to fit 9.5" wheels wrapped in 265 RE-71R's under the rear fenders of the 2 series, one would need an offset around ET50 - ET53. Anything higher you are hitting the inside (gas filler neck etc.), and anything lower you are all over the rear fenders. Negative camber and fender rolling only buy's so much room.

GSR Autosport (now Trinity Autosport) built a 2 series Pirelli World Challenge car, and came to the same conclusions. Like Brett, they used APEX 18x9.5" ET35 up front with spacers to clear struts, and 18x9.5" ET58 with small spacers in the rear.

What offset for a 9.5" wheel do you propose works front and rear with 265 track oriented tires?

[Edit] We offer our EC-7's in 18x9.5" ET43, and although they would work if an enthusiasts wanted to run 20mm spacers up front, the rear fenders would not accomidate them with 265/35-18 RE-71R's without major work.

- Ryan

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Happy to discuss.

In order to fit 9.5" wheels wrapped in 265 RE-71R's under the front fenders of the 2 series, one would need an offset around ET25. This assumes you are using suspension that utilizes linear springs and a spring perch location that is above the wheel and tire for maximum clearance. If you are using KW's variants, KW Clusports, Bilsteins etc. you can plan on needing an extra 5mm of clearance, thus lowering the offset requirement. This is of course unless you modify the suspension, like removing the helper springs off the Clubsports and purchase shorter replacement springs in effort to riase the spring perch (I believe you went this route).

In order to fit 9.5" wheels wrapped in 265 RE-71R's under the rear fenders of the 2 series, one would need an offset around ET50 - ET53. Anything higher you are hitting the inside (gas filler neck etc.), and anything lower you are all over the rear fenders. Negative camber and fender rolling only buy's so much room.

GSR Autosport (now Trinity Autosport) built a 2 series Pirelli World Challenge car, and came to the same conclusions. Like Brett, they used APEX 18x9.5" ET35 up front with spacers to clear struts, and 18x9.5" ET58 with small spacers in the rear.

What offset for a 9.5" wheel do you propose works front and rear with 265 track oriented tires?

[Edit] We offer our EC-7's in 18x9.5" ET43, and although they would work if an enthusiasts wanted to run 20mm spacers up front, the rear fenders would not accomidate them with 265/35-18 RE-71R's without major work.

- Ryan

Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts

Proper inner strut and outer fender clearance with a 9.5" wide wheel is met only when axle specific offsets are used.

-Ryan

I think you should have said "only" when it pertains to apex wheels.

You didn't mention 265s specifically in the same paragraph when you said you have to have axle specific offsets . 255s can be done with the right setup with same offset on all 4. Been done many times here, but mostly on with 8.5" or 9" wheels.

I think I might be the first to get 9.5" with square offsets to work.

I believe a 18x9.5 +50 and 265 square would work with the right suspension and alignment setup.

If you guys made the ARC8 in 18x9.5 +45 or +50 I would have went with those instead of my current setup

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

I believe a 18x9.5 +50 and 265 square would work with the right suspension and alignment setup.

Would need a spacer for that offset in front.

18x9et36 makes the wheel less than 1mm from the front strut. Would need to be more like 18x9.5et29, I think.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by rwalker

Would need a spacer for that offset in front.

18x9et36 makes the wheel less than 1mm from the front strut. Would need to be more like 18x9.5et29, I think.

For sure a spacer would be needed. I'm just saying it's the size i think would work if you wanted a true square wheel/tire setup with 9.5" and 265s

[rwalker]

Originally Posted by Anthony235

For sure a spacer would be needed. I'm just saying it's the size i think would work if you wanted a true square wheel/tire setup with 265s

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by rwalker

18x9et36 makes the wheel less than 1mm from the front strut. Would need to be more like 18x9.5et29, I think.

That's with OEM strut clearance? (spring or strut clearance?)

Coilover would give that much more room.