[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by dradernh

The irony is that it's really a 230i, and the car BMW calls a 230i is in reality a 220i. The traditional nomenclature needed to change, however, when BMW set out to sell millions of units per year.

The nomenclature has always been approximate (just bouncing around the decades, all with market-positioning badging I can list the 320i, 316, 518d, 745i, 633CSi, 525e, 318i, 320i again, 323i, 645i, 650i, 550i, 325d, 325i, 318i again, 114d, 316i again, 320i again, 335i, 340i, 218d, 225xe, 225d, 323ti, M535i...) and there is an ancient precedent for marking some cars with higher capacities based on their forced induction back to the 70s I agree it’s getting looser, but virtually the entire market is absolutely fine with this. Audi has gone abstract altogether and Mercedes changes its badge structure practically every other moddle year.

I agree that these are not M-cars - not in any way, shape, or form, I believe.

No matter how aggressively or angrily you put it, BMW essentially agrees with you .

[mcompact]

The first M car based on a production vehicle was the E12 M535i; the engine was the same engine found in the E23 7 Series and E24 6 Series. M modifications were mostly confined to the suspension, although the front brake rotors were 3mm thicker. The interior had Recaro seats and a Motorsport wheel. The exterior had a front airdam, rear lip spoiler, cross-spoke BBS wheels and Motorsport striping. No bespoke engine or body panels. It was definitely not a "real" M car by today's standards.

As for me, the badging on the M235i never factored into my purchase decision; I simply wanted an engaging daily driver, a competent HPDE instructor car, and something that could shut down most of the usual suspects at the Stoplight Grand Prix. After nearly three years of ownership I'm still pretty happy with it; The only cars I'm considering replacing it with are an M2C or Giulia Q4.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by mcompact

The first M car based on a production vehicle was the E12 M535i; the engine was the same engine found in the E23 7 Series and E24 6 Series. M modifications were mostly confined to the suspension, although the front brake rotors were 3mm thicker. The interior had Recaro seats and a Motorsport wheel. The exterior had a front airdam, rear lip spoiler, cross-spoke BBS wheels and Motorsport striping. No bespoke engine or body panels. It was definitely not a "real" M car by today's standards.

As for me, the badging on the M235i never factored into my purchase decision; I simply wanted an engaging daily driver, a competent HPDE instructor car, and something that could shut down most of the usual suspects at the Stoplight Grand Prix. After nearly three years of ownership I'm still pretty happy with it; The only cars I'm considering replacing it with are an M2C or Giulia Q4.

Agreed.

I also didn't buy the M235 because of it's "variant" or "M designation".. I bought it because of the twin scroll N55, and the F22 RWD/MT/LSD "OE" platform. It was hailed as one of the best BMWs since the "hole grail" E46 M3 by my favourite reviewer (Chris Harris). Being up on power, big time, and having all of the newer tech, it was exactly the fit for my goals, which align with most typical BMW enthusiasts, imo..

[babaikram]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Agreed.

I also didn't buy the M235 because of it's "variant" or "M designation".. I bought it because of the twin scroll N55, and the F22 RWD/MT/LSD "OE" platform. It was hailed as one of the best BMWs since the "hole grail" E46 M3 by my favourite reviewer (Chris Harris). Being up on power, big time, and having all of the newer tech, it was exactly the fit for my goals, which align with most typical BMW enthusiasts, imo..

Why denying our M lite cars are officially M cars by BMW? This is a form of internalised guilt.

I proudly declare my M240i is an 'M' car. For full description, an 'M lite'

If anybody has problems with my description, please contact BMW

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by babaikram

Why denying our M lite cars are officially M cars by BMW? This is a form of internalised guilt.

I proudly declare my M240i is an 'M' car. For full description, an 'M lite'

If anybody has problems with my description, please contact BMW

lol no doubt, it's an M variant for sure. Just like the M550 etc, which is currently well respected out there. The M235/40's have the components like added oil coolers, powerpack, OE LSD option, Brembo brakes to justify the M designation, imo. I just prefer to fly under the radar with the "M clubs" and make them look silly at the track, instead. They usually have no issue with the "M-lite" once they see how it whips around the circuit

A guy I met in an M4 at Area27 last year actually said for the value, he made the wrong choice. The F22's at their price point, offer a lot more performance for the $ than the rest of the lineup, when it comes to tracking. That and the fact that the body parts, and suspension components are at a much lower cost to replace, in the event of an off track incident, or even just excessive wear factor, justifies the drop in power, and pricepoint.. He was too chicken to take corners at the speeds I was, simply because he paid $120K for his coupe and didn't want to wreck it.. And when he found out I obtained mine for under half of what he paid, he was dumbfounded lol

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by mcompact

The first M car based on a production vehicle was the E12 M535i; the engine was the same engine found in the E23 7 Series and E24 6 Series. M modifications were mostly confined to the suspension, although the front brake rotors were 3mm thicker. The interior had Recaro seats and a Motorsport wheel. The exterior had a front airdam, rear lip spoiler, cross-spoke BBS wheels and Motorsport striping. No bespoke engine or body panels. It was definitely not a "real" M car by today's standards.

Indeed not no, and although not quite old enough to have become a fully fledged car geek by 1979 when the M535i appeared I certainly don’t recall any wailing or gnashing of teeth when the M535i appeared again in 1984, ahead of the full fat M5 and at about the same time as the M635CSi, which really did have an M motor. The 528i was already a very fast car for 1982 so the novelty of a 5 with the engine out of the (then) top-end 6 series trumped any badge-engineering arguments.

BMW had confused matters further by introducing a non-M 535i at about the same time, for those who wanted sports-car performance in something that looked like a 518. Those days absolutely are over; if there was demand for Q-cars today I am sure BMW would build them, but they don’t; they want agggresion and spoilers. And boy, are they getting ’em

[serko ex]

Originally Posted by vandridine

It is not a full blown m car but why change the name of your car? You never see Audi s4 owners calling their cars a4s because they didn't buy an rs4. If you really care that much about an M badge why did you buy the car in the first place?

Sorry if I gave you the impression that I care about the m badge. I was just participating it the topic discussion and giving my personal opinion.

Originally Posted by mcompact

As for me, the badging on the M235i never factored into my purchase decision; I simply wanted an engaging daily driver, a competent HPDE instructor car, and something that could shut down most of the usual suspects at the Stoplight Grand Prix.

This

[loudiamond15]

Foolishly thinking what I recently witnessed while on my daily commute to work was just one silly fluke, a quick forum search revealed that my faith was sadly misplaced. Shortly after merging onto the interstate bypass I take to the office, I see a beautiful Sunset Orange Metallic 2 series slightly up ahead of me. Of course I wanted to see it up close, so I adjusted my speed accordingly to be able to catch up before my exit. Lo and behold, I get up closer and it's a 2018 M240i (or at least it looks identical to mine in every way except for the color). I look again, and I'm like "That's absolutely an M240i, so why the hell does it have an M2 badge!?!?!" Yep, this dude replaced his M240i badge with an M2 badge. And yes, I am 1000% certain it wasn't an actual M2. So my question is, why? WHY? I just don't get it. If someone could please enlighten me I would be very grateful.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by loudiamond15

If someone could please enlighten me I would be very grateful.

I believe the thinking must have gone like this:

1) It's an M-car (maybe M-lite, but still an M-car); and,
2) It's a 2 series; therefore,
3) It's an M2.

Makes sense, right?

[loudiamond15]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I believe the thinking must have gone like this:

1) It's an M-car (maybe M-lite, but still an M-car); and,
2) It's a 2 series; therefore,
3) It's an M2.

Makes sense, right?

Le sigh....I mean, I GUESS when you put it that way

[Unicorn123]

Good grief, I have to admit reading the latest entries to this thread that apparently will not die is making me LMAO...

drader, your logic is impeccable...thank you for brightening my day! I now know why 1+1=7!

[Hpirx]

Why? Because it's a cheaper and easier upgrade than a downpipe and a tune!
Or buying a new car.
When I had my N54 E90, I saw plenty of rebadged 328s with the 335xi badge. (I just hope they received the dreaded 30ff CEL that comes standard with that wonderful engine)

[mcompact]

Originally Posted by loudiamond15

Foolishly thinking what I recently witnessed while on my daily commute to work was just one silly fluke, a quick forum search revealed that my faith was sadly misplaced. Shortly after merging onto the interstate bypass I take to the office, I see a beautiful Sunset Orange Metallic 2 series slightly up ahead of me. Of course I wanted to see it up close, so I adjusted my speed accordingly to be able to catch up before my exit. Lo and behold, I get up closer and it's a 2018 M240i (or at least it looks identical to mine in every way except for the color). I look again, and I'm like "That's absolutely an M240i, so why the hell does it have an M2 badge!?!?!" Yep, this dude replaced his M240i badge with an M2 badge. And yes, I am 1000% certain it wasn't an actual M2. So my question is, why? WHY? I just don't get it. If someone could please enlighten me I would be very grateful.

Easy- somewhere a village is missing its idiot...

[Estoril6rod]

Originally Posted by mcompact

The first M car based on a production vehicle was the E12 M535i; the engine was the same engine found in the E23 7 Series and E24 6 Series. M modifications were mostly confined to the suspension, although the front brake rotors were 3mm thicker. The interior had Recaro seats and a Motorsport wheel. The exterior had a front airdam, rear lip spoiler, cross-spoke BBS wheels and Motorsport striping. No bespoke engine or body panels. It was definitely not a "real" M car by today's standards.

As for me, the badging on the M235i never factored into my purchase decision; I simply wanted an engaging daily driver, a competent HPDE instructor car, and something that could shut down most of the usual suspects at the Stoplight Grand Prix. After nearly three years of ownership I'm still pretty happy with it; The only cars I'm considering replacing it with are an M2C or Giulia Q4.

That is very interesting, thank you for that info! I knew of the M535i's existence but never got around to looking at the specifics.

Would I have preferred that BMW call our cars 235iS instead of M235i? Of course, makes more sense given the modifications done to our car from factory. Though like you and many other enthusiasts I don't go around faking an M, rather I enjoy it for what it is, I've modified it a bit to my liking and I try to educate others regarding the M235i and M2 confusion/differences.

PS: Am I alone in thinking that our cars would have retained more value if BMW hadn't decided to start putting M badges into more and more non-M cars and instead decided to occasionally release these "one-off" factory M-tuned variants? Please share your thoughts!

[mcompact]

BMW has been building M Sports for some time; my 1995 Club Sport came with M badging on the side moldings and rear spoiler- along with an M shift knob. As for the prevalence of M badging today, Like it on not, BMW decided several years ago to designate the car with the most powerful non-M motor in each series as an "M Performance" car. This has been going on in North America since the introduction of the M235i.