[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by montegoblue_e92

I would like to chime in here and say that I've been very happy with the DWS06s on my xDrive e92, they are much better than the all-season Hankooks that the previous owner put on the car.

I ended up getting caught in the November snowstorm that NJ was not prepared for, and the car went through a couple inches of snow on the NJ Turnpike just fine. People were getting stuck left and right! I would have much rather had winter tires on for that incident, but the truth is I never expected to be on the road with that much snow.

I was in that same snowstorm in NNJ that day with an F30 328dx but had the Michelin AS3+'s. They were almost brand new at the time and the car handled amazingly well. The snow was super deep in the suburbs before the salt trucks and plows came out, and it was mostly dry and loose powder from what I recall. I had 0 issues whatsoever. Not only that but It was actually fun:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1555872


It's been a year and about 10-15k miles later and we had some light snow recently (2-3 inches) but there was a lot much slush and wet snow (unlike last years storm). I had a lot more wheel spin/dsc intervention off of stoplights and stop signs but I wasn't being super-light or modular on the throttle and diesels are known to be torquey so I'm not sure if I can attribute that to driver error or tire performance/wear. Either way, I don't find these tires to be loud as others have complained (maybe I'm deaf), and I find the winter performance to be adequate for people living in places where it only snows a handful of times a year. I'm tempted to try the DWS06's next because I've heard the snow performance is slightly better, but with xDrive and only a few snow days a year I'm not sure if it would really be worthwhile. ~360 days of the year we're snow-free and I think I value the warm, wet, and dry performance over the snow performance. As long as you drive slow these will get you where you need to go safely.

[fryguy]

For everyone saying the AS3+ is bad in snow, is it actually worse than the OEM RFTs?

I'm still on my stock RFTs, and have been considering what to replace once I wear them out. AS3+ seemed top of list for me.

I'm in Boston area, but can easily avoid driving in any real amount of snow. Can't avoid driving in cold though. I have no complaints about the performance of the OEM RFTs though, so if they are just better, then hurray.

[Rollo`]

I have had DWS06 and AS/3+ on several cars and the handling of the AS/3+ is outstanding in the dry and warm--very noticeable improvement in turn in, feel and limit of traction in curves. I don't find it significantly louder than the DWS in the sizes I have experienced. Living in the mid south we often go through winters with no snow these days and I am unwilling to trade the excellent performance 98% of the time for slightly better snow performance < 2% of the time.

I have also tried the Potenza 980 and it was slightly below the michelin in handling but had ungodly wet traction that lasted the life of the tire. However the hydroplane resistance was much worse than the AS3 or the DWS. It didn't snow the year I had those on.

If you are happy with the DWS you should stick with them--they were just too soft for me.

[Dylan86]

Since the AS3+ outperforms many competitors pure summer performance tires, I'd be concerned about how the compound would fair in colder temps. I feel they're similar in compound to a PSS but a bit harder, and PSS's are noticeably poor in colder temps.

I have Xi3's and they're great, but obviously a dedicated tire..

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Since the AS3+ outperforms many competitors pure summer performance tires, I'd be concerned about how the compound would fair in colder temps. I feel they're similar in compound to a PSS but a bit harder, and PSS's are noticeably poor in colder temps.

I have Xi3's and they're great, but obviously a dedicated tire..

Exactly. You can't have summer-level traction without compromising winter level traction. Same with brakes. If you don't like brake dust, then you can get low dust brakes but expect worse braking performance.

I had a set of Bridgestone 960 ultra high performance all season tires. They were killer in the dry, but we're frightening in temps below 30 and in the snow/slush/wet. I traded them out for DWS after one winter season and lost some dry warm weather performance, but holy hell were they so much better in the winter. Apples to oranges.

I know the AS3+ has been revamped with an improved compound, but I have hard time believing that they'll offer the same level of winter performance as the DWS which as a ton more sipping and a portion of its tread design that is similar to a winter tire.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Exactly. You can't have summer-level traction without compromising winter level traction. Same with brakes. If you don't like brake dust, then you can get low dust brakes but expect worse braking performance.

I had a set of Bridgestone 960 ultra high performance all season tires. They were killer in the dry, but we're frightening in temps below 30 and in the snow/slush/wet. I traded them out for DWS after one winter season and lost some dry warm weather performance, but holy hell were they so much better in the winter. Apples to oranges.

I know the AS3+ has been revamped with an improved compound, but I have hard time believing that they'll offer the same level of winter performance as the DWS which as a ton more sipping and a portion of its tread design that is similar to a winter tire.

I work for Canada's largest Tire Retailer and have seen/heard some of the stories of customers buying AS3's or DW's to be used up here as an all season. Trouble is the tempatures reach -30* here easily and those tires simply turn into hockey pucks. Sure if you baby things and leave lots of room for stopping you can make it through winter, but I'm about driving confidence and I wouldn't have that with any A/S.

Plus, its been known for a while now that if you actually make the upfront investment in two proper sets of tires (1 summer/AS and 1 winter set) you'll actually save more in the long run due to better tire wear and compounds for the temperatures they're being used in.

If you're in one of those areas like coastal NW where it might snow a handful of times per year, than I guess it's something you'd have to decide on, but understand that sometimes it does not make sense to have winters.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

I work for Canada's largest Tire Retailer and have seen/heard some of the stories of customers buying AS3's or DW's to be used up here as an all season. Trouble is the tempatures reach -30* here easily and those tires simply turn into hockey pucks. Sure if you baby things and leave lots of room for stopping you can make it through winter, but I'm about driving confidence and I wouldn't have that with any A/S.

Plus, its been known for a while now that if you actually make the upfront investment in two proper sets of tires (1 summer/AS and 1 winter set) you'll actually save more in the long run due to better tire wear and compounds for the temperatures they're being used in.

If you're in one of those areas like coastal NW where it might snow a handful of times per year, than I guess it's something you'd have to decide on, but understand that sometimes it does not make sense to have winters.

Agreed about the temps. The DWS or AS3+ would be a terrible choice if you live in an area with lots of snow or temps that are routinely below 20 degrees.

In Kansas City, we see around 18 to 30 inches of snow every year spread out over 8 to 12 snow events. Rarely do the events exceed 3 inches. Also, rarely do temps drop below 20 degrees extended periods. Daily temps are typically in upper 20s to upper 40s between December and late February. I think the Kansas City winter is comparable to a majority of the cities in the US, especially near the same latitude.

I've got Pilot Alpin PA4s (3rd season) and I think they're overkill for Kansas City. Everyone swore I needed winter tires for my BMW even though I had gotten around fine on all season tires in 30 years of driving in Kansas City. Hell, the cops in their RWD Caprice Classics, Crown Vics, and currently their Chargers don't run winter tires and it's fairly hilly in KC. I've found that the PA4s wear out too fast (might get 12K miles out of them) and they handle and brake like a wet pork chop in temps above 40 degrees. They're hilariously terrible in 50+ degree temps. In the snow, they're pretty good, but it's so rare that I really need to drive on snow packed roads. Once these tires are done, I'm going with DWS for my winter tires.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Agreed about the temps. The DWS or AS3+ would be a terrible choice if you live in an area with lots of snow or temps that are routinely below 20 degrees.

In Kansas City, we see around 18 to 30 inches of snow every year spread out over 8 to 12 snow events. Rarely do the events exceed 3 inches. Also, rarely do temps drop below 20 degrees extended periods. Daily temps are typically in upper 20s to upper 40s between December and late February. I think the Kansas City winter is comparable to a majority of the cities in the US, especially near the same latitude.

I've got Pilot Alpin PA4s (3rd season) and I think they're overkill for Kansas City. Everyone swore I needed winter tires for my BMW even though I had gotten around fine on all season tires in 30 years of driving in Kansas City. Hell, the cops in their RWD Caprice Classics, Crown Vics, and currently their Chargers don't run winter tires and it's fairly hilly in KC. I've found that the PA4s wear out too fast (might get 12K miles out of them) and they handle and brake like a wet pork chop in temps above 40 degrees. They're hilariously terrible in 50+ degree temps. In the snow, they're pretty good, but it's so rare that I really need to drive on snow packed roads. Once these tires are done, I'm going with DWS for my winter tires.

I'm in my third winter here in the Cincinnati region, and I'm quickly coming to share your point of view. There just isn't that much snow here, and what does come down falls in dribs and drabs.

I too have a choice as to whether to drive my M240 when its snowing or especially cold out. I don't drive when it snowing or the streets are wet and only drive when it's cold to take the car out for its once-a-month or so two-hour warmup/workout. I think the right A/S tire will work just fine.

I've already got A/S 3+s for the shoulder seasons and plan to put 225/45-17 Vredestein Quatrac Pros on my 17" winter wheels later this year. The Quatracs have the snowflake symbol and will be more than adequate for my winter use. They'll do double-duty during extended touring excursions in the warmer months.

[DistantTea]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I'm in my third winter here in the Cincinnati region, and I'm quickly coming to share your point of view. There just isn't that much snow here, and what does come down falls in dribs and drabs.

I too have a choice as to whether to drive my M240 when its snowing or especially cold out. I don't drive when it snowing or the streets are wet and only drive when it's cold to take the car out for its once-a-month or so two-hour warmup/workout. I think the right A/S tire will work just fine.

I've already got A/S 3+s for the shoulder seasons and plan to put 225/45-17 Vredestein Quatrac Pros on my 17" winter wheels later this year. The Quatracs have the snowflake symbol and will be more than adequate for my winter use. They'll do double-duty during extended touring excursions in the warmer months.

I'm in the Cincinnati area as well running AS3+ on the M240i. Instead of buying winter tires I bought a winter car and tool around town in my puddle jumper, a 2008 Toyota Yaris running Vredstein Quatrac 5s. I was about spend $2,400 for new wheels and tires for the BMW and my puddle jumper pretty much cost the same thing (plus $500 for the tires).

The AS3+ are great tires but yeah when it gets sub freezing they are hard and get slicker. Why put my poor M240i through those nasty days anyways?

[morphomeman]

What a world we live in: the car, admittedly a dozen years old, costs as much as a decent set of wheels and tires!

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I bought a winter car and tool around town in my puddle jumper, a 2008 Toyota Yaris running Vredstein Quatrac 5s.

Hopefully won't get called-out for going OT...but how do you like your Quatracs? The Tire Rack review of the Pros, especially the stellar wet performance, sold me on the tire.

Originally Posted by morphomeman

What a world we live in...!

Yes, we truly are not in Kansas anymore, are we.

[DistantTea]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Hopefully won't get called-out for going OT...but how do you like your Quatracs? The Tire Rack review of the Pros, especially the stellar wet performance, sold me on the tire.


Yes, we truly are not in Kansas anymore, are we.

It's a super great tire for grip in all conditions. I haven't had it in any snow that matters (since we haven't gotten any snow that matters). I will say it seems very soft sides but the yaris has super tall sidewalls. If I was putting something on my M240 it would probably be dedicated snows instead of something like this though. As much as I like the Quatracs I'm pretty sure our cars would overwhelm them easily while being extra squiggly in turns.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I'm in the Cincinnati area as well running AS3+ on the M240i. Instead of buying winter tires I bought a winter car and tool around town in my puddle jumper, a 2008 Toyota Yaris running Vredstein Quatrac 5s. I was about spend $2,400 for new wheels and tires for the BMW and my puddle jumper pretty much cost the same thing (plus $500 for the tires).

The AS3+ are great tires but yeah when it gets sub freezing they are hard and get slicker. Why put my poor M240i through those nasty days anyways?

That's a great way to a) keep the mileage down b) keep the body clean c) mitigate risk of collisions that are unavoidable. Plus, you simply cant beat having an every day beater, can park it anywhere, drive long distance blah blah blah

[sethwas]

I know this topic is for the tire thread, but when I was doing my research the Michelin's were highly (highly) reviewed in all non extreme weather temps in dry conditions. People were saying it's basically the 'best' with the only knock being a firm ride and noise depending on car (the way it sounds can either be ignored or not depending on your vehicle).

Anytime it got wet or slushy though it quickly fell behind many others. The Avid Ascend GT for example was better, the General GMax AS, and of course the DWS. It depended on the vehicle/tire size as well.

Personally I avoided the Michelin's because they were always over double the price of the competition and frankly weren't that much better (better yes but not double better). They aren't giving any more value.

I first narrowed my search to summer only v all season, and the climate I live in does nothing for all seasons. They are summer year round as we never see below 40. But we do see wet ALL THE TIME and that was paramount. I would have gone with the Ascend GT but they were new at the time so no discount and General was pushing the GMax RS. I went with the latter and they are stellar. The most grip I've ever had. Ride is excellent. Cost was less than $100 per. (with free install due to the discount).

In hindsight I probably would have gone with the Bridgestone's because while, at a few more dollars per, they may not have as much absolute grip, and be a little less 'direct' in the wheel, that's not really a 'thing' with a daily, and they are substantially quieter than any summer tire which has become the most important criteria for me. They they do wonderfully in the wet is a benefit.

Seth