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      11-27-2020, 01:40 PM   #1
JustAWhisper
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A bunch of questions on potential audio upgrade options

Hello all.

I just bought an M2 in September, and like many people here, quickly noticed the HK audio system is hot garbage. I was quite surprised and disappointed, considering my E46 M3 also has an HK branded audio system that I mostly liked, and while people have complaints about that system too, it's pretty decent compared to this.

From searching a bunch of prior threads (including the Strangelove one) over the last month, it seems that an upgrade to all of the front speakers (except center channel which most people unplug) is a good starting point, which will hopefully fix a lot of the clarity issues. However, I'm not sure if it will fix the pathetically weak bass. From what I read, replacing the under-seat subwoofers won't do much without replacing the amp, which is both expensive and a PITA due to electronics integration issues. Does that sound about right?

So I'm trying to figure out a path forward. I don't mind throwing a little money at the problem, since I plan to keep the car for a decent amount of time, but I was originally hoping to keep it to 3 digits (<$1000). I can DIY stuff to an extent, but I don't like cutting or modifying components to make them fit. I'm also skeptical of my ability to tune an amp as I have no experience doing that.

Unfortunately, it seems replacing the amp at all will bust my $1000 soft cap, as the only one that seem to work are the MATCH UP 7BMW one or the vendor modified ones from Bimmertech and Bavsound.

Since it's Holiday shopping seasons and there might be some deals out there, I wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down my options and potentially buy something in the next few weeks.

1. So the Eton speakers seem to be pretty popular for front replacement; how plug and play are those? It seems they are made specific for BMW's, which is a good sign. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding them available at a mainstream store in the US, or frankly any English documentation on them at all (instructions for installation, etc.). Is there a good website in English that talks about them in more detail?

2. the rear speaker replacement recommended in the Strangelove thread is available, but Crutchfield says it does not fit, so I assume modification is involved, but the Strangelove thread doesn't specify what that is. Can anyone clarify that?

3. Obviously the two big American BMW audio companies, Bavsound and Bimmertech, have probably the most plug and play kits on the market. But they're kind of pricey. I'm also disappointed that you can't customize their kits to delete the center channel upgrade that will probably be unplugged. Bimmertech for whatever reason insists on making you buy the subwoofers first. Is that just a weird website thing, or do they really insist on buying the all-inclusive kits?

Moving on to amps.

4. The MATCH UP 7BMW amp is the most widely recommended here on this forum. I found it for $1000 at Crutchfield, so it's easy to get at least. Unfortunately documentation is still a little limited, but Crutchfield's website is helpful. It looks like tuning is pretty easy, but does it come with a default DSP setup that works with the stock speakers? I find when learning a new skill like this, it helps a lot to have a decent default to start from, and then I can figure out incremental improvements. If I'm starting completely from scratch, that would be a lot more difficult and time consuming.

5. I've seen a bunch of negative posts about the Bimmertech PP86 amp, but nothing that clearly states what the problem is. Is it just a more limited capability compared to the MATCH UP one? They're both made by Audiotec-Fischer.

6. Bavsound discontinued their tuned MATCH UP amp and have just introduced a new amp to replace it. Initially they set the price at $1600(!), but now it shows about $1100 on the website. I haven't seen much info about it, and no one has talked about it here on the forum yet. Does anyone know what's different about it compared to the previous amp? It looks like they changed to a different base model, as the picture doesn't look like the MATCH UP one anymore. I'm curious if anyone has any more info on it. I asked Bavsound, but the customer service rep said details TBD. I guess they're still getting the product finalized. One thing it does seem to suggest is that there is no custom tuning allowed, and you need either a full stock speaker setup OR a full Bavsound setup. This suggests that having Bavsound speakers with stock subs is not an option, though maybe it isn't that big of a deal.

7. Is there any obvious options I've missed? It seems like the number of things that actually fit are pretty limited.

I appreciate any thoughts people can share.
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      11-28-2020, 04:16 AM   #2
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So for less than 1K for ALL of the audio mods you're looking for is tight but if it were me I would do the Match UP 7BMW and be done. You're not replacing any of the speakers at this point but you're addressing the poor factory amp with its factory canned sound processing. The Match UP 7BMW is plug and play, has 8 channel processing, has 7 channels of amplification (staggered power: 5x65 and 2x130)mounts onto the oem amplifier bracket, and includes center channel processing. Also, for that Match unit there are options for remotes, add on USB module (for high res USB), Bluetooth card/interface.

So if all you have is 1K max and won't spend any more then at this point you're done. But more importantly you laid the groundwork for future upgrades that make sense.

What I mean by groundwork and making sense having the Match unit first is that if you used your 1K budget for speakers first and left the factory amps as is then sure it would sound better than a fully stock audio system but you're still dealing with the limitations of the factory Amp which are factory set processing (set crossover frequencies and slopes, set EQ) and lack of power needed to provide dynamics. Also, if you replaced the processing and amplification first you can then source a much larger list of speakers that will work with your system compared to having to source plug and play type BMW speakers solutions like Eton and Bavsound. But more on that later.

So when you have more funds after acquiring the Match unit you can then start to replace speakers. Most important on the list are the front doors. Factory replacements like the Eton you mentioned get high praise on the forums. They are plug and play. They are still available, I did a quick google search and see they are at Madisound:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...00%20W-%20Pair

At this point your system will sound great and you may be happy enough to stop here. If you want more and have more funds, I (me in this situation) would look at changing the bass layout. Factory bass is handled by the under-seat 8" drivers. They are shallow drivers and lack sufficient xmax travel to reproduce sub bass frequencies as effectively as dedicated sub-bass drivers. I would add a 10" or 12" sub to the back trunk corner using a Musicar enclosure along with a mono amp to drive it. You could do a sub in a box but this would limit trunk space, choice is up to you. The sub will allow you to bandpass the underseat drivers to bridge the gap between the 4" door speakers and the sub. At this point you have gone from a 2 way to now having a 3 way front stage with a sub. More speakers handling the audio spectrum = better opportunity for better sound (depending on the drivers picked and your tuning skills)

After that, having more funds you can then improve your front stage further by then replacing the factory center channel drivers. (you only need 1x tweeter and 1x 4" driver with a crossover or a coaxial would work too. Preferably timber matching would require the same drivers as what you have in the doors, if you can source half a set somehow, or sell the other half? or go in with someone else who wants to upgrade their center channel?)

And after that with more available funds I would then replace the underseat 8" mid-bass drivers. Bavesound, Focal, Gladen, Jehnert and Eton make options.

Then, if you have more funds and think it could sound better, if you sourced a plug and play door speaker replacement like the Eton set mentioned above earlier I would then swap them out for a dedicated tweeter set and a dedicated 4" midrange driver set and would skip the passive crossover and have the DSP handle them with 4 channels now instead of two. 2 channels gained from not using the rear deck - keep reading.

And then with more money, the only factory speakers remaining are the rear deck speakers. I wouldn't put too much thought into these. Some or maybe a majority here would say to replace these early on but I would leave the factory ones alone and unplugged. Why? Because rear speakers pull the front stage away from in front of you where it should be. With proper DSP processing using time alignment, you can have rear fill to where it won't pull the front stage back. But I guess at this point you've spent a few thousand at least so what's another few hundred for a new rear fill speaker set. If you do then your 8 channel DSP can't handle 10 channels needed for this so your spending more for additional DSP or a separate DSP and/or separate amps.... rabbit hole.

Hope some other members with experience with the Match amp/DSP unit can chime in to offer their insight. Unfortunately, I am not taking this route. I already have invested in several amps and a few speakers leftover from a previous install I had in a previous car so I'll be doing separate amps and a separate DSP in my M240i when the time comes as I am still piecing it together but If I was going into this from scratch I would do the MATCH UP 7BMW in an instant and not have to do all the separate amps and a separate DSP. The MATCH unit just makes everything so easy.

TLDR;

For 1K just get the Match UP 7BMW and spend time learning how to tune. It will make the most improvement with just 1K max budget
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      11-28-2020, 10:12 AM   #3
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I've installed the Audiotec-Fisher MATCH 7UP BMW amp. Go to the Audiotec-Fischer website in Germany to get all the info on the amp, software (used to tune the amp) and options (Bluetooth and USB modules). The main issue with the factory HK system, other than the speakers, is the digital to analog converter (DAC) in the head unit. Harmon (the supplier to BMW) must have scrimped on the DAC. The Audiotec-Fischer has a much better DAC chip than that in the factory head unit. How do I know? Using the same digital music source (iPhone 7), the sound from the MATCH amp using either USB or Bluetooth is far fuller and richer than the sound produced by the head unit via the MATCH amp. Here's my thread: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1710472

But, the first step is to replace the crappy HK speakers. They are lightweight junk. Go with the Etons in the front and JLs in the rear. Definitely disconnect the center channel speaker in the dash.


The ultimate upgrade would be to replace the DAC chip in the factory head unit with a superior chip. I've asked Harmon (via email) about the DAC chip and they won't give me any info. I may pull my head unit to get the specs on the DAC chip. Of course, it won't be a straight swap as the underlying infrastructure used by the HK chip is likely different than that of a repayment chip.
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      11-28-2020, 03:33 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies so far. I appreciate the inputs and you've given me some things to think about.

One thing that MarcoZandrini just clarified that I was beginning to wonder about was why folks were installing additional Bluetooth modules straight to the amp. I didn't realize the head unit was so poor. Again, I'm saddened by BMW cheaping out. Their head units used to be really good (no one replaces the head unit in the E46 M3 unless they are converting to Android/Carplay/etc.).
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      11-29-2020, 12:18 PM   #5
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I read somewhere that the Harmon head unit could be using a "software" DAC. If that's the case, the software could be upgraded. I'm betting it's chip.

Yeah, BMW has scrimped on the head units in the 1 series and 2 series models. Heck, the replacement for the F22 will be built.....hold on.......
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      12-15-2020, 09:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAWhisper View Post
Hello all.

I just bought an M2 in September, and like many people here, quickly noticed the HK audio system is hot garbage. I was quite surprised and disappointed, considering my E46 M3 also has an HK branded audio system that I mostly liked, and while people have complaints about that system too, it's pretty decent compared to this.

From searching a bunch of prior threads (including the Strangelove one) over the last month, it seems that an upgrade to all of the front speakers (except center channel which most people unplug) is a good starting point, which will hopefully fix a lot of the clarity issues. However, I'm not sure if it will fix the pathetically weak bass. From what I read, replacing the under-seat subwoofers won't do much without replacing the amp, which is both expensive and a PITA due to electronics integration issues. Does that sound about right?

So I'm trying to figure out a path forward. I don't mind throwing a little money at the problem, since I plan to keep the car for a decent amount of time, but I was originally hoping to keep it to 3 digits (<$1000). I can DIY stuff to an extent, but I don't like cutting or modifying components to make them fit. I'm also skeptical of my ability to tune an amp as I have no experience doing that.

Unfortunately, it seems replacing the amp at all will bust my $1000 soft cap, as the only one that seem to work are the MATCH UP 7BMW one or the vendor modified ones from Bimmertech and Bavsound.

Since it's Holiday shopping seasons and there might be some deals out there, I wanted to ask a few questions to help narrow down my options and potentially buy something in the next few weeks.

1. So the Eton speakers seem to be pretty popular for front replacement; how plug and play are those? It seems they are made specific for BMW's, which is a good sign. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding them available at a mainstream store in the US, or frankly any English documentation on them at all (instructions for installation, etc.). Is there a good website in English that talks about them in more detail?

2. the rear speaker replacement recommended in the Strangelove thread is available, but Crutchfield says it does not fit, so I assume modification is involved, but the Strangelove thread doesn't specify what that is. Can anyone clarify that?

3. Obviously the two big American BMW audio companies, Bavsound and Bimmertech, have probably the most plug and play kits on the market. But they're kind of pricey. I'm also disappointed that you can't customize their kits to delete the center channel upgrade that will probably be unplugged. Bimmertech for whatever reason insists on making you buy the subwoofers first. Is that just a weird website thing, or do they really insist on buying the all-inclusive kits?

Moving on to amps.

4. The MATCH UP 7BMW amp is the most widely recommended here on this forum. I found it for $1000 at Crutchfield, so it's easy to get at least. Unfortunately documentation is still a little limited, but Crutchfield's website is helpful. It looks like tuning is pretty easy, but does it come with a default DSP setup that works with the stock speakers? I find when learning a new skill like this, it helps a lot to have a decent default to start from, and then I can figure out incremental improvements. If I'm starting completely from scratch, that would be a lot more difficult and time consuming.

5. I've seen a bunch of negative posts about the Bimmertech PP86 amp, but nothing that clearly states what the problem is. Is it just a more limited capability compared to the MATCH UP one? They're both made by Audiotec-Fischer.

6. Bavsound discontinued their tuned MATCH UP amp and have just introduced a new amp to replace it. Initially they set the price at $1600(!), but now it shows about $1100 on the website. I haven't seen much info about it, and no one has talked about it here on the forum yet. Does anyone know what's different about it compared to the previous amp? It looks like they changed to a different base model, as the picture doesn't look like the MATCH UP one anymore. I'm curious if anyone has any more info on it. I asked Bavsound, but the customer service rep said details TBD. I guess they're still getting the product finalized. One thing it does seem to suggest is that there is no custom tuning allowed, and you need either a full stock speaker setup OR a full Bavsound setup. This suggests that having Bavsound speakers with stock subs is not an option, though maybe it isn't that big of a deal.

7. Is there any obvious options I've missed? It seems like the number of things that actually fit are pretty limited.

I appreciate any thoughts people can share.
Before you go out and buy hundreds or thousands in new equipment, read this tread.
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1723637

It pertains to the F22 but I'm sure that the M2 has the same HK options. You can code different EQ curves via Bimmercode.
I have my F22 with HK stereo running the F45 curve. Better bass/treble and sound stage.
Hope this helps.
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      12-30-2020, 03:15 PM   #7
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I've been poking around and noticed that Audiotec-Fischer is now offering a MATCH UP branded set of speakers and underseat subs for BMW's to go with their amp. Crutchfield has the subs for $400, but not the speakers which appear to be recently added to the Audiotec-Fischer's website within the last few weeks.

I'm curious to know if anyone knows much about the subs. They're the cheapest option I've seen so far, but their stats look quite good.

It'll also be interesting to see what the price on the speakers is once they arrive at vendors.
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      12-31-2020, 02:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAWhisper View Post
I've been poking around and noticed that Audiotec-Fischer is now offering a MATCH UP branded set of speakers and underseat subs for BMW's to go with their amp. Crutchfield has the subs for $400, but not the speakers which appear to be recently added to the Audiotec-Fischer's website within the last few weeks.

I'm curious to know if anyone knows much about the subs. They're the cheapest option I've seen so far, but their stats look quite good.

It'll also be interesting to see what the price on the speakers is once they arrive at vendors.
I don't have a comment about the speaker quality, but note that Crutchfield thinks the BMW speakers are 5" not 4", so it only finds the Focal IC 100 series (and calls them 5" even though that's clearly wrong) even though the Match speakers fit, and they sell them (like the MS 42C-BMW.2).

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_97542C...42C-BMW-2.html
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      01-05-2021, 10:48 PM   #9
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Curious - BMW's built in the USA are fine vehicles and the native US brands are less comparable - so there is the potential for the 2 series to still be a good vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
I read somewhere that the Harmon head unit could be using a "software" DAC. If that's the case, the software could be upgraded. I'm betting it's chip.

Yeah, BMW has scrimped on the head units in the 1 series and 2 series models. Heck, the replacement for the F22 will be built.....hold on.......
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      01-06-2021, 12:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfGTI View Post
Curious - BMW's built in the USA are fine vehicles and the native US brands are less comparable - so there is the potential for the 2 series to still be a good vehicle.
Shitty quality cars can come from anywhere (see all VW / Audi products). So can xenophobes.
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