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      04-27-2018, 08:27 PM   #1
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FBO and BM3 Stage 2 Tune Results w/ Some Strangeness

Finally got my FBO parts and BM3 tune installed yesterday. The build included...
  • Fabspeed Catted Downpipe
  • Dinan CAI
  • Evolution Racewerks FMIC
  • Evolution Racewerks Charge Pipe
  • Evolution Racewerks Turbo to Intercooler Charge Pipe
  • BM3 Stage 2 91 Oct

First of all, I was SUPER happy with the gains (+97 HP and 124 ft/lbs). But was concerned with the squiggly lines and drop off starting at 5.5K. Sure enough, at the track today, there was power loss and very erratic behavior as soon as I got near 5.5K RPM. My first time out, the car went into limp mode after 10 minutes. I brought it in, stopped and restarted, and gave it another shot. I made it through the 2nd session, but had to keep it under 5.5K, which is not easy or fun at the track. Also, the power delivery was not the smoothest. After my second session, I was thinking maybe the installer put the wrong flash on (I was out of town and gave them access to my BM3 account), so I re-flashed. Sure enough it fixed it. Everything smoothed out and the car pulled all the way up to redline. I was passing F80s and keeping decent pace and even passing some 911s. The car was a monster. I contacted the installer and he had a screenshot showing that he did in fact put on the same tune. So what happened?

I suspect if I had it dyno-ed again, the gains might be even better.

The other oddity was the cold start was removed, and I noticed some very rough cold starts (at least before I re-flashed). I'll see tomorrow.

Blue is stock, red is with everything installed.
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      04-27-2018, 09:16 PM   #2
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Nice delta nevertheless thats the point good job!
Btw, why 91octane map? Thats about 20whp/40wtq less than 93oct (conservative guess)
What version of N55 EWG OTS ?
Auto / 6MT ?
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      04-27-2018, 09:32 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3cmm View Post
Finally got my FBO parts and BM3 tune installed yesterday. The build included...
  • Fabspeed Catted Downpipe
  • Dinan CAI
  • Evolution Racewerks FMIC
  • Evolution Racewerks Charge Pipe
  • Evolution Racewerks Turbo to Intercooler Charge Pipe
  • BM3 Stage 2 91 Oct

First of all, I was SUPER happy with the gains (+97 HP and 124 ft/lbs). But was concerned with the squiggly lines and drop off starting at 5.5K. Sure enough, at the track today, there was power loss and very erratic behavior as soon as I got near 5.5K RPM. My first time out, the car went into limp mode after 10 minutes. I brought it in, stopped and restarted, and gave it another shot. I made it through the 2nd session, but had to keep it under 5.5K, which is not easy or fun at the track. Also, the power delivery was not the smoothest. After my second session, I was thinking maybe the installer put the wrong flash on (I was out of town and gave them access to my BM3 account), so I re-flashed. Sure enough it fixed it. Everything smoothed out and the car pulled all the way up to redline. I was passing F80s and keeping decent pace and even passing some 911s. The car was a monster. I contacted the installer and he had a screenshot showing that he did in fact put on the same tune. So what happened?

I suspect if I had it dyno-ed again, the gains might be even better.

The other oddity was the cold start was removed, and I noticed some very rough cold starts (at least before I re-flashed). I'll see tomorrow.

Blue is stock, red is with everything installed.
Wow that's pretty impressive numbers. was that baseline done the same day as your modded pull?I've been trying to decide on a tune going back and forth between mhd and bm3 but your dyno results just gave me the push I needed.
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      04-28-2018, 05:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Nice delta nevertheless thats the point good job!
Btw, why 91octane map? Thats about 20whp/40wtq less than 93oct (conservative guess)
What version of N55 EWG OTS ?
Auto / 6MT ?
Wow, there is that much of a difference? I went with 91 for convenience thinking there wouldn't be much of a difference in power. I'm running 93 this weekend though, maybe I'll try the 93 map.

Version 5 (but I see there is a 6 now)

6MT
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      04-28-2018, 05:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfry675 View Post
Wow that's pretty impressive numbers. was that baseline done the same day as your modded pull?I've been trying to decide on a tune going back and forth between mhd and bm3 but your dyno results just gave me the push I needed.
Unfortunately it was done 2 days apart, though the days were similar (50-60, sunny, low humidity)
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      04-28-2018, 06:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3cmm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfry675 View Post
Wow that's pretty impressive numbers. was that baseline done the same day as your modded pull?I've been trying to decide on a tune going back and forth between mhd and bm3 but your dyno results just gave me the push I needed.
Unfortunately it was done 2 days apart, though the days were similar (50-60, sunny, low humidity)
Was that a ots map without any changes from the dyno or did the shop tweak it?
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      04-28-2018, 09:15 AM   #7
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I'm excited to get my BM3 stuff setup! Just need to order my intercooler and charge pipe .

Awesome gains though!
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      04-28-2018, 10:24 AM   #8
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Seeing that power peaks at ~5500rpms and drops off fairly hard vs ~6200rpms with a more progressive drop in power, I don't think I'd worry too much about the timing issue occurring from 6300rpms+. There's really no sense revving that far out anymore because the tune has completely reshaped the power curve and pushed it much lower. Instead of your shift points being nearly redline in every gear, you should now be shifting around 6200-6400rpms depending on gear. I would imagine if you were running 93 octane with the 91 octane tune, the issue in the upper rpms wouldn't be occurring.
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      04-28-2018, 01:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3cmm View Post
Wow, there is that much of a difference? I went with 91 for convenience thinking there wouldn't be much of a difference in power. I'm running 93 this weekend though, maybe I'll try the 93 map.

Version 5 (but I see there is a 6 now)

6MT
How long ago did you change your plugs ?
Yep V6 is out should of tried it
What gear did you do each run im going to say 4th gear
Did you grab a log of the pulls?

Uploaded from PTF site a 335 6MT EWG recently on V6 93 and E30 Map all runs in 4th gear
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      04-28-2018, 08:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfry675 View Post
Was that a ots map without any changes from the dyno or did the shop tweak it?
Just OTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Seeing that power peaks at ~5500rpms and drops off fairly hard vs ~6200rpms with a more progressive drop in power, I don't think I'd worry too much about the timing issue occurring from 6300rpms+. There's really no sense revving that far out anymore because the tune has completely reshaped the power curve and pushed it much lower. Instead of your shift points being nearly redline in every gear, you should now be shifting around 6200-6400rpms depending on gear. I would imagine if you were running 93 octane with the 91 octane tune, the issue in the upper rpms wouldn't be occurring.
I hear and appreciate what you are saying and it might be OK if you are going in a straight line, but not OK for me on the track. I'm not so worried about the HP, but the engine / throttle response was way off. There were fluctuations in power delivery that un-balanced the car and I don't want to be faced with having to shift in the middle of a turn because I artificially ran out of revs. (Like in the outer loop at Watkins Glen if I need to go through the bus stop in 3rd) . I also don't want to have to hold at 5.5-6K RPMs until I complete my exit because the symptoms start to appear. Granted I did need to change my shifting patterns, but I would have had to go into 6th in some spots. The range of available revs between gear shifts would be way too narrow.

Anyway, the re-flash got rid of the nastiness. Just not sure how it could have happened to begin with and wanted to share with others in case they face the same issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
How long ago did you change your plugs ?
Yep V6 is out should of tried it
What gear did you do each run im going to say 4th gear
Did you grab a log of the pulls?

Uploaded from PTF site a 335 6MT EWG recently on V6 93 and E30 Map all runs in 4th gear
Haven't changed them yet (40K miles).
4th
The shop still has everything. I know very little about reading that type of stuff so I didn't ask for them.
The end of the pull looks similar but I think mine is worse. The feel of the throttle when that line started jumping was very unsettling and wandering into that territory too many times put me in limp mode.


Couple of other notes...

Cold starts are still rough.

I ran the 93 map today at the track. The engine ran smooth except for CEL (see below). Too bad it was rainy all day and going to snow tomorrow at Watkins Glen!

I got a CEL both yesterday (two sessions after the re-flash on 91) and today midday on the 93 map. The message is 118001 mixture control: mixture too lean. When it happened, it did not cause the car to go into limp mode either time.

Thanks for the input everyone. And just to be clear, aside from those few notes above, now that the timing/throttle/whatever issue seems to be resolved from the re-flash, I'm very, very happy with the power. Its not a 'throw you into the back of your seat' type of power, but it accelerates fairly linearly, which is working well for the track. I just need bigger sneakers on her now so I can stop quicker.
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      04-29-2018, 12:12 AM   #11
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@Fsociety was probably insinuating that you may be breaking up above 5500. It's a very good possibility with stock gap and 40,000mi with the increase in power. Mixture too lean for me was due to plugs... try N20's gapped to .018-.020. These plugs have been great plus they are 1 step colder than stock. Making nearly 100 over stock definitely would benefit from a colder plug. I would be willing to bet that will solve your mixture too lean issue. Also in regards to the stage 2 93 map. Go to settings and turn on cold start > OEM and idling at cold start to OEM. It solved my very rough idle at startup. For some reason the flash defaults to cold start off and not sure about the default idling characteristics. Good luck
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      04-29-2018, 12:38 AM   #12
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Grab the V6 map and give it a try, its important to know what gear the dyno was done but no biggie you can prob go again?

Do a log or 2 on the new V6 and if any issues up top rename the log with the 30-100 WOT or 3-5th gear pull and "Request Update" as they use this feature to fix any issues related to tuning that may need a look.
Mention the CEL as well as no issues here.

V6 has MPPK Throttle Mapping Inspired
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      04-29-2018, 12:41 AM   #13
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N20 plugs - NGK SILZKBR8D8S

Note that your stock gap has widened some over 40,000 and probably north of .030 so very likely you are starting to have misfires with your newly added tune.
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      04-29-2018, 02:12 PM   #14
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^^ Sound advice.
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      04-30-2018, 10:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Seeing that power peaks at ~5500rpms and drops off fairly hard vs ~6200rpms with a more progressive drop in power, I don't think I'd worry too much about the timing issue occurring from 6300rpms+. There's really no sense revving that far out anymore because the tune has completely reshaped the power curve and pushed it much lower. Instead of your shift points being nearly redline in every gear, you should now be shifting around 6200-6400rpms depending on gear. I would imagine if you were running 93 octane with the 91 octane tune, the issue in the upper rpms wouldn't be occurring.
Not really true about the shift points when it comes to track days on road courses.
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      05-19-2018, 09:00 AM   #16
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Adaptations maybe.
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      05-19-2018, 09:26 AM   #17
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Check your logs. According to the dyno you're running lean.
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      05-19-2018, 10:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3cmm View Post
Just OTS



I hear and appreciate what you are saying and it might be OK if you are going in a straight line, but not OK for me on the track. I'm not so worried about the HP, but the engine / throttle response was way off. There were fluctuations in power delivery that un-balanced the car and I don't want to be faced with having to shift in the middle of a turn because I artificially ran out of revs. (Like in the outer loop at Watkins Glen if I need to go through the bus stop in 3rd) . I also don't want to have to hold at 5.5-6K RPMs until I complete my exit because the symptoms start to appear. Granted I did need to change my shifting patterns, but I would have had to go into 6th in some spots. The range of available revs between gear shifts would be way too narrow.

Anyway, the re-flash got rid of the nastiness. Just not sure how it could have happened to begin with and wanted to share with others in case they face the same issue.



Haven't changed them yet (40K miles).
4th
The shop still has everything. I know very little about reading that type of stuff so I didn't ask for them.
The end of the pull looks similar but I think mine is worse. The feel of the throttle when that line started jumping was very unsettling and wandering into that territory too many times put me in limp mode.


Couple of other notes...

Cold starts are still rough.

I ran the 93 map today at the track. The engine ran smooth except for CEL (see below). Too bad it was rainy all day and going to snow tomorrow at Watkins Glen!

I got a CEL both yesterday (two sessions after the re-flash on 91) and today midday on the 93 map. The message is 118001 mixture control: mixture too lean. When it happened, it did not cause the car to go into limp mode either time.

Thanks for the input everyone. And just to be clear, aside from those few notes above, now that the timing/throttle/whatever issue seems to be resolved from the re-flash, I'm very, very happy with the power. Its not a 'throw you into the back of your seat' type of power, but it accelerates fairly linearly, which is working well for the track. I just need bigger sneakers on her now so I can stop quicker.
Have the hesitations and stuttering come back? I've noticed that after a fresh clear of the adaptations, which happens at every flash, the throttle is good, but with subsequent drives the throttle goes back to the hesitations. Ptf has not responded to my tune request in over 10 days yet they answer burble questions immediately. I'm not happy with their priorities.

edit: my issues with adaptations and hesitations / surging is with low rpm day to day driving. i do not have such issues at WOT (not on track). i have not tracked this car so i wouldn't know that behavior.

Last edited by designatedposter; 05-19-2018 at 07:38 PM..
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      05-19-2018, 04:42 PM   #19
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Those of you with hesitations. Are you still on factory plugs? If so how many miles on current plugs?

My logs were OK before, but I swapped to 1 step colder plugs today with a smaller .018 gap and my timing does look better in the last two logs I just did. Just a thought.

It would be a good idea to post your logs. Can't help much without seeing those.
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      05-19-2018, 07:40 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
Those of you with hesitations. Are you still on factory plugs? If so how many miles on current plugs?

My logs were OK before, but I swapped to 1 step colder plugs today with a smaller .018 gap and my timing does look better in the last two logs I just did. Just a thought.

It would be a good idea to post your logs. Can't help much without seeing those.
i clarified my post above. my issues with hesitations is only with slow day to day driving in comfort mode. no issues in sport mode.

as for timing issues that i also currently have at WOT, i do have a new set of plugs i intend to install very soon. and i'll gap it to .020 per recommendation of PTF.
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      05-19-2018, 07:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
Those of you with hesitations. Are you still on factory plugs? If so how many miles on current plugs?

My logs were OK before, but I swapped to 1 step colder plugs today with a smaller .018 gap and my timing does look better in the last two logs I just did. Just a thought.

It would be a good idea to post your logs. Can't help much without seeing those.
i clarified my post above. my issues with hesitations is only with slow day to day driving in comfort mode. no issues in sport mode.

as for timing issues that i also currently have at WOT, i do have a new set of plugs i intend to install very soon. and i'll gap it to .020 per recommendation of PTF.
I also noticed hesitation and a slight stumbling around 2k. Also the cold start delete is nice but it runs like shit when you start driving for 30 seconds...barely stays running. I think I'm going back to waking the neighbors. Lol. Runs great besides that. I wasn't expecting it to pull as hard as it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
Those of you with hesitations. Are you still on factory plugs? If so how many miles on current plugs?

My logs were OK before, but I swapped to 1 step colder plugs today with a smaller .018 gap and my timing does look better in the last two logs I just did. Just a thought.

It would be a good idea to post your logs. Can't help much without seeing those.
Any issues with my log? Not sure what to look for.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5af73709d10b43430ca4813e
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      05-19-2018, 08:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchfry675 View Post
I also noticed hesitation and a slight stumbling around 2k. Also the cold start delete is nice but it runs like shit when you start driving for 30 seconds...barely stays running. I think I'm going back to waking the neighbors. Lol. Runs great besides that. I wasn't expecting it to pull as hard as it does.

Any issues with my log? Not sure what to look for.
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5af73709d10b43430ca4813e
only thing is that your actual boost is about .5 to 1 psi lower than your target psi throughout the rev range. don't know what that means, since your throttle is pretty steady too, so car is not trying to compensate. other than that, your timing looks real clean, i wish mine looked like that.

what's your car mods?
spark plugs and life?
coil life?
fuel?
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