[five3three]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

These are the specs on the website... not very clear
Torque looks great!

Max HP Gain 64
Max Torque Gain 77
Peak Horsepower 364
Peak Torque 407
Stock HP 320
Stock Torque 330
Included Notes D-TRONICS Performance Tuner, Dinan® wiring harness, Dinan Stage 1 softwareMax HP Gain 64

Looks like that was a mistake in their specs. It's now listed at:

Max HP Gain 44
Max Torque Gain 77
Peak Horsepower 364
Peak Torque 407
Stock HP 320
Stock Torque 330
Included Notes D-TRONICS Performance Tuner, Dinan® wiring harness, Dinan Stage 1 software


So basically, for $2000, we end up with the same specs as an F30 335i which also costs $2000. I thought they'd surely do a little better with M235i other than the usual tune. At the very least they could have prorated it since the added performance isn't all that much.

And no, I'm not a Dinan hater. I actually want to give them my money had the cost to performance ratio been a little more even matched with the other cars.

[ska///235i]

Who cares its freakin $2000 lol

[HelzRage]

Yes it is expensive. There is no denying that. Spec wise when converted to WHP the specs are damn near identical to the dyno run with the JB Stage 1 tune from another thread down the list and that also had an AFE intake on it. Not that the intake would make that large of a difference but still but that dyno run also didnt have the EWG connector so the lack of that coupled with the addition of the intake it may be a wash. So for 4.5 times the cost you get similar power but with a warranty essentially. I for one, am actually surprised at how HIGH the numbers are. Typically Dinan numbers are lower than any Burger tune just because they tone it back a little because of the warranty.

As for the comment on it making the same power numbers as the 335i, why wouldn't it, it the same engine after all. The 235 is just getting some additional power from MPPK software that is built into the stock model. What's interesting though is the HP numbers are identical between the 335 and the 235 although they start 20HP apart while the torque numbers increase ~30, the same as the beginning delta between those 2 models. Why would one go up but not the other (even a lil bit given the starting differential)? Is there some HP cap on the n55 that Dinan feels is getting a bit too close for comfort and therefore backed off on that number? I don't know, it just seems odd.

Bottom line like every Dinan vs. whomever conversation goes; is the warranty important to you? In this case given the specs are damn near identical to the burger tune it might be an even more valid point.

That said, it's still to rich for my blood given the actual performance gains but for those who value the warranty / peace of mind enough then it may be worth it to them.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Maybe a Dinan stage 2 might make more sense money wise. But apart from that I still feel the Armytrix exhaust with 25WHP increase makes more sense for the money. And for about $700 more you can get the stage 2 JB4 with CAI if you decide on not going Dinan.

Or if you really have lots of money you can do the Dinan Stage1 tune and the Armytrix exhaust with a CAI. So Many options for everyone to decide. Bottom line is the more tuners doing stuff the better it is for all of us.

[bernstem]

Originally Posted by HelzRage

Yes it is expensive. There is no denying that. Spec wise when converted to WHP the specs are damn near identical to the dyno run with the JB Stage 1 tune from another thread down the list and that also had an AFE intake on it. Not that the intake would make that large of a difference but still but that dyno run also didnt have the EWG connector so the lack of that coupled with the addition of the intake it may be a wash. So for 4.5 times the cost you get similar power but with a warranty essentially. I for one, am actually surprised at how HIGH the numbers are. Typically Dinan numbers are lower than any Burger tune just because they tone it back a little because of the warranty.

As for the comment on it making the same power numbers as the 335i, why wouldn't it, it the same engine after all. The 235 is just getting some additional power from MPPK software that is built into the stock model. What's interesting though is the HP numbers are identical between the 335 and the 235 although they start 20HP apart while the torque numbers increase ~30, the same as the beginning delta between those 2 models. Why would one go up but not the other (even a lil bit given the starting differential)? Is there some HP cap on the n55 that Dinan feels is getting a bit too close for comfort and therefore backed off on that number? I don't know, it just seems odd.

Bottom line like every Dinan vs. whomever conversation goes; is the warranty important to you? In this case given the specs are damn near identical to the burger tune it might be an even more valid point.

That said, it's still to rich for my blood given the actual performance gains but for those who value the warranty / peace of mind enough then it may be worth it to them.

Wait, this was a reasonable post in a Dinan thread. Did the earth's axis just change?

+1 to all this. The 235 and 335 should have the same HP/Torque numbers. They are the same engine. I agree, it is more interesting that the Dinan numbers are so close to the Burger numbers as Dinan is usually very conservative in their tune.

[Researcher]

Wait a minute!!!! People are complaining that a $2000 upgrade, that keeps car under warranty, is too expensive; but yet are willing to go out and spend way more than that for a non-existent M2 that will have even less power/torque than the Dinan mod. WTF!!!

Let BMW shove the M2 marketing BS up their A@@. I will be Dinan all the way, driving a monster that is going to eat M2, 4, 5, and whatever new marketing BS number BMW comes up with.

[Roshi]

Dinan not yet available in The Republic of Kalifornia.

[alz0rz]

Ok.. so now that they've fixed their website it's $45/hp. The JB4 Stage II running Map 2 could get you there and further for $9.25/hp (assuming ~65hp gain).

So it's all about the workmanship and warranty now.

[BLK235iNJ]

Am I missing something? I thought the Armytrix setup was around 3k? It's a full exhaust and it will most likely void your warranty say you blow or damage the turbo.

Again I think some of us are looking at this tactically and strategically. Tactically it makes sense to mod based on the best bang for the buck. Strategically Dinan makes more sense... if you go without a warranted vendor then you are pretty much flying blind if something happens to your car there is no peace of mind.


High-flow performance de-catted down pipe + Front pipe + Mid pipe + Link pipe + Valvetronic mufflers + Wireless remote control kits + Dual titanium blue plating tips / matte black tips

Originally Posted by Bennu

Maybe a Dinan stage 2 might make more sense money wise. But apart from that I still feel the Armytrix exhaust with 25WHP increase makes more sense for the money. And for about $700 more you can get the stage 2 JB4 with CAI if you decide on not going Dinan.

Or if you really have lots of money you can do the Dinan Stage1 tune and the Armytrix exhaust with a CAI. So Many options for everyone to decide. Bottom line is the more tuners doing stuff the better it is for all of us.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Am I missing something? I thought the Armytrix setup was around 3k? It's a full exhaust and it will most likely void your warranty say you blow or damage the turbo.

Again I think some of us are looking at this tactically and strategically. Tactically it makes sense to mod based on the best bang for the buck. Strategically Dinan makes more sense... if you go without a warranted vendor then you are pretty much flying blind if something happens to your car there is no peace of mind.


High-flow performance de-catted down pipe + Front pipe + Mid pipe + Link pipe + Valvetronic mufflers + Wireless remote control kits + Dual titanium blue plating tips / matte black tips

This topic has been discussed a lot here about voiding warranty that I won't add anything here about that.

About the price all I can say is I was quoted $2150 so no idea where you got the $3,000 from.

[BLK235iNJ]

Check out this video

May help with workmanship discussion.

Originally Posted by alz0rz

Ok.. so now that they've fixed their website it's $45/hp. The JB4 Stage II running Map 2 could get you there and further for $9.25/hp (assuming ~65hp gain).

So it's all about the workmanship and warranty now.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Check out this video

...

May help with workmanship discussion.

Dinan resorted to using a piggyback as well, and here is his response to the criticism this has brought on:

We recently saw your post regarding our new Turbotronics project and wanted to clarify a few points to make sure your readers have the correct information. I stand by my comments on "Tech tip Tuesday". Even though we are making an ECU we are still believe software has superior performance and reliability when compared to an ad on ECU. Having said that the new Bosch ECU has proven more difficult to crack than previous models so we have been forced to go the ECU route. BTW this is Dinan's 16th Turbotronics ECU because we used to make them a long time ago but when we got very good at software we went away from them because of the obvious advantages.

“Tech Tip Tuesday” was also referring to the existing piggy back boxes on the market. Our goal wasn’t to imply that a piggyback box wasn’t a viable tuning solution, but rather the current ones lack sophistication in which is why they make less power, have more drivability issues, are more prone to setting faults and are not emissions legal. I also mentioned that a box would have to be much more sophisticated in order to work properly and not risk any damage or malfunctions with the vehicle long-term.

The reason our software is more expensive than current piggyback systems on the market is the level of work and research that is required to “crack” BMW’s factory computers, the additional cost of the 4 year 50k mile warranty and emissions certification. The cost our R&D, warranty and emission testing when compared to manufacturing the piggy back boxes I see on the market it is more likely they are making more money than Dinan soit is not about money as the person implied it's about doing it right. Most people assume that BMW gives us complete access to the computers, but that is not the case.

We have a team of 5 engineers that do nothing but read through every line of code on each ECU to make sure that all of our software allows the car to function properly, doesn’t interfere with other electronics and keeps factory system safeguards in place.

As far as the new “Turbotronics” units are concerned, (still in development) they essentially are more than a piggy back box they are a powerful ECU that has many more capabilities that the existing piggy back boxes. To help you understanding the additional capabilities as I said in "TECH TIP Tuesday" the existing boxes send a an adjusted signal to the BMWECU telling it he boost is too low and the ECU then raises the boost to what it thinks is the correct value as does ours. This false value creates errors in Fuel mixture and ignition timing. This can causesmore faults, high catalyst inlet temperatures and a loss of power.In addition when you increase power exhaust temperature will increaseand this must be countered with a slightly richer mixture. Our ECU will have the capability of setting a richer target lambda (fuel mixture) as well as correcting short term trip which is the difference between target and scheduled fuel mixture just to mention a couple of it's capabilities. By matching these two correctly we can reduce knock sensor activity which will make smother performance,protect the catalyst, increase power and allow us to make it emissions legal.

We have a lot of exciting new product in the works for N55 powered cars along with products being created for the M235i. Keep an eye on our social media channels for announcements on sales, new products and more of our Tech Tip Tuesday series.

Thanks again for your time and we hope this is helpful. If you’re interested, we would love to have you out to the facility to see our operation first hand.

Sincerely,
Steve Dinan

[HX_Guy]

Nice response from them. I buy into it...I mean you pay for quality just like any other product out there.

I saw banners for Dinan at the local BMW dealership here in the service area, does that mean they will install and service it if there are problems with the system? Or do they just sell them and you contact Dinan directly if there are any problems?

[phoenixbmwlife]

If Dinan is using the same piggy back technology, the results are pretty identical, and they would not put a product out there without ample testing. Then doesn't the idea of voiding warranty for the cheaper piggy back seem less significant now? Yeah I know their answer is that they have more testing done but doesn't that just sound like a company talking points memo?

[ska///235i]

Dinan been saying that for the past 20 years

[Delnari]

I believe, and just my thought on this, the Dinan box is able to copy the existing BMW software onto their ECU box. Using like he said, they have engineers who have learn how to crack their code but it has gotten more difficult over the last few years. One of the reasons why he doesn't offer this product for every BMW model. By copying the code to an external box, he can tweak the code that he needs to adjust and leave the existing code in place, untouched. So, you are now paying Dinan for two things, a new ECU box and the transferring of his code. Given his prices have stayed nearly the same over the last 10 years that is not a bad deal.

As for going to Stage 2, 3, etc. when they become available you only pay the difference between the stage you have already purchased. If you bought Stage 1 at $2000 and Stage 2 is $2400, you pay $400 for the upgrade plus labor time and local taxes.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Yeh might make more sense money wise for the stage 2 or 3. I'll look at it when it comes out

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Dinan been saying that for the past 20 years

The fact that they have been around for 20 years to say it says something though.

[HelzRage]

Originally Posted by Bennu

If Dinan is using the same piggy back technology, the results are pretty identical, and they would not put a product out there without ample testing. Then doesn't the idea of voiding warranty for the cheaper piggy back seem less significant now? Yeah I know their answer is that they have more testing done but doesn't that just sound like a company talking points memo?

Your assuming they are using the same technology. Just because they get to the same end result doesn't mean they took the same path to get there.

Anyone with detailed knowledge of this please correct the next statement if needed but this is how I have it interpreted...

My understanding of the JB4 and others like it is that they increase the boost and a few other parameters leaving the stock DME to adjust most related settings to fit the new levels it sees. This in turn sets faults / codes within the system. The box is then constantly clearing these faults so no CEL appears. So while you are given the impression that everything is working fine in the background there are still errors happening. They are just getting cleared faster then they can be displayed. Essentially they are lying to a few key sensors and letting the stock DME figure out the rest.

The Dinan piggyback on the other hand is a bit more thorough. I'm reading in between the lines a bit here so I could be way off base so take this with a grain of salt. By the description I am understanding that they actually are adjusting all of the signals, or at least the ones that may set off faults / codes with the goal of not having to clear anything. If that's the case they technically have more control and can adjust things to be smoother performing. Perhaps the stock DME auto-correcting itself is just as smooth and there is no advantage. Only a direct comparison sitting in a vehicle on back to back runs would be able to answer that. The bottom line if my interpretation is correct is they are lying to more signals than the competition. They are a better liar. lol

If that is the case then yes I can see a substantial bit more R&D there hence the increased cost to go along with a warranty. Now whether that method is any better then the competing brands method is really up to the person buying the tune. On one hand in theory there is more control. On the other it appears you get the same end result for quite a bit less. I think it ultimately comes down to preference (read: if you want a warranty) and the highly controversial term of "drivability" where each persons version of that is different.

[HX_Guy]

@HelzRage I think you are spot on in your thinking. Watching the video posted earlier and also reading the response from Dinan themselves, plus looking at the actual hardware from Dinan, it sounds like that is exactly what is going on. Basically the Dinan piggyback is a more complex unit than something like a JB4...it monitors more sensors/signals and sends out more signals to more sensors to make the power increase smoother and safer for the engine. Again, it makes sense to me and I buy into it. For me, it really comes down to which one would provide an OEM like experience? Which would make it feel like it was BMW themselves that incorporated into the car from the factory?


And on a side note, anyone know if Dinan ever does semi-annual sales like APR?

[jeffclev]

Dinan usually has end of year sales. Last year I think the sw was 10% off.

[Delnari]

Yes they run sales throughout the year, at the end of the racing season, and the beginning of the new racing season to get people motivated to buy.