[Rockfresh15]

Hey all,

I'm coming from a 2013 e92 that I absolutely love, but I just need something faster and a little more exhilarating to drive, so here I am stuck between the 2017 M240 xDrive and 2018 440i xDrive w/ M Performance power and sound.

I gotta say, between the things I've read and watching the Straight Pipes reviews on these cars, I'm really conflicted, (

) especially with the big praise the 440i (w/ MPPSK) got from them for being a near-perfect car. I'm planning to schedule some test drives soon but until then I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. Especially since I can't find a 440i with MPPSK to test.

So here's my pros and cons why I'm stuck so far:

M240 Pros:

• Looks better (prefer the body style, stock rims are black/gray, etc.)
• So quick and nimble without needing a single engine mod
• It's new and exotic to me and to others (less on the road, change-up from my 3 etc.)
• Better brakes? I'm assuming, due the M sport brakes.

M240 Cons:

• Many complain about the HK sound system being pretty trash - a big drawback for me which would need to be fixed immediately, and seems complicated/"guess-and-check-y" to do. Lotta hassle especially with things how they are now..
• Steering feel. Owners and reviewers alike complain not just of numbness but up to an inch of play on dead-center. I've driven newer BMWs and this sounds very annoying and potentially cruise-ruining going fast on a highway with that kinda "responsiveness." Would definitely be looking to remedy this with aftermarket parts, another sort of guess and check endeavor (albeit less so than the sound system) especially for xDrives.

440 MPSSK Pros:

• Oh my god that exhaust. And changing it with a click of a button?? Ugh, so good. That said, I prefer the natural tone of the 240, but the mode switch and pops are a reeaal sell for the 440.
• Potentially better steering feel? Straight Pipes seems pretty convinced. They didn't really have a single complaint, unlike with the 240. (Check 2:30 on the 240 review vs 3:40 on the 440 review)
• HK sound system that I won't have to touch if it's anything like my superb HK setup in my e92
• Slightly more well-appointed interior -- really just icing on the cake, cause I don't reeally care too much about these differences, besides the sound system.

440 MPSSK Cons:

• Not really a fan of the looks, especially the rear. Much prefer the 240 in those regards -- more reminiscent of a sportier, more up-to-date e92.
• Potentially not as fun/nimble? I did read a lot of people who bought 2's complaining that the 4 felt big and boaty, though perhaps some aftermarket tweaks could remedy this?

TL;DR

I love the idea of a smaller, better-looking, and super fast car like the M240, but driving around rocking that damn-near perfect HK sound system and the classic 3 series steering are huge for me. I know the 440i is electric too but it sounds like it might be better from what I'ver heard. So, if I got the 240 I'd no doubt need to change the sound system and try to add back some steering feel, but if I got the 440 I THINK I'd only need the MPPSK, since I can't change much of how it looks, wheels are a waste of money (to me), and the steering feel is better (?).

So..anyone driven both care to comment?

[elliswyatt]

I was in the same boat as you and I also viewed both of those videos as well as many others. I couldn’t find a single new or used 440i or xi to test drive within a reasonable radius. I was able to drive a 2020 M240i and that’s what sold me on the smaller size, more upright driving position and the fact that it reminds me so much of my old E36 M3 in terms of size and handling (albeit with a much stronger engine). The steering tightens up in Sport mode but it’s not as natural as hydraulic steering....as many others have pointed out. After an overnight test drive, I felt that the steering is something I can live with and will get used to. I wasn’t that concerned with the HK sound system and didn’t really evaluate it.

If you really want the 440i, you will need to be patient and/or lucky to find a used one equipped the way you want. There are only a few new ones out there with the Track Handling package. Good luck!

[BrettKA7]

It's interesting because The Straight Pipes are the only reviewers I've ever see claim the steering is so bad. I had a 328i and now have an M240i and the M240i steering is without a doubt way, way better.

Throttle House has a very different review and they don't complain about the same things. I'm not sure why The Straight Pipes were so hard on the F22 steering compared to other BMWs. It could have been the tires they had installed on the vehicle, but Throttle House has winter tires so I'm not sure...

I'm not sure there are any touch surfaces that are higher quality in the F2X vs. the F3X at all... IIRC my 328i has the same synthetic dashboard, same plastic lower dash and lower door panels. My F30 door handles melted and peeled but they are plastic in the F2X. That's a welcome change but is probably cost cutting. I didn't notice any other spot that's cheaper inside.

If you find an M Sport or M Performance vehicle with blue brakes, they should be the same if it's an F chassis car. The M235i and M240i both have Track Handling Package standard so they will all have these upgraded brakes. The 440i will need the package to get the brakes and the M Adaptive suspension that the M240i also has standard in US.

The HK system in the M240i isn't anything to write home about. From what people on the forums say, the 440i will sound better even if both cars have HK

Edit: The Straight Pipes has Continental winter tires in square 225 config. I have Pilot Super Sports in staggered (225/245) config. That probably makes a pretty big difference.

[TonM3]

Originally Posted by BrettKA7

It's interesting because The Straight Pipes are the only reviewers I've ever see claim the steering is so bad. I had a 328i and now have an M240i and the M240i steering is without a doubt way, way better.

Throttle House has a very different review and they don't complain about the same things. I'm not sure why The Straight Pipes were so hard on the F22 steering compared to other BMWs. It could have been the tires they had installed on the vehicle, but Throttle House has winter tires so I'm not sure...

I'm not sure there are any touch surfaces that are higher quality in the F2X vs. the F3X at all... IIRC my 328i has the same synthetic dashboard, same plastic lower dash and lower door panels. My F30 door handles melted and peeled but they are plastic in the F2X. That's a welcome change but is probably cost cutting. I didn't notice any other spot that's cheaper inside.

If you find an M Sport or M Performance vehicle with blue brakes, they should be the same if it's an F chassis car. The M235i and M240i both have Track Handling Package standard so they will all have these upgraded brakes. The 440i will need the package to get the brakes and the M Adaptive suspension that the M240i also has standard in US.

The HK system in the M240i isn't anything to write home about. From what people on the forums say, the 440i will sound better even if both cars have HK

Edit: The Straight Pipes has Continental winter tires in square 225 config. I have Pilot Super Sports in staggered (225/245) config. That probably makes a pretty big difference.

If you were coming from an F30, particularly an early year one the steering on the M240 is much better. The OP is coming from an e9x, which in my opinion was the last great hydraulic setup.

I had a 2014 335 and the steering was way too light without much feedback. I got a loaner 2016 or 16 F30 one one service visit and it was significantly better. My M240 is a little better than that, still not in the ballpark of my e90 335.

[Throttlesteer14]

I honestly wouldn't get too hung up on the HK sound system. I started with the non-HK base system and did the BAVSound upgrade. Swapping the 5 speakers and two woofers transformed the sound system. It took all of a few hours and helped me familiarize myself with the car. You can get substantially more "audiophile-esque" with your solution, but it takes a little more time to dial things in. The BAVSound approach was plug-n-play and I didn't have to mess with the amp to get good sound.

[BrettKA7]

Originally Posted by TonM3

If you were coming from an F30, particularly an early year one the steering on the M240 is much better. The OP is coming from an e9x, which in my opinion was the last great hydraulic setup.

I had a 2014 335 and the steering was way too light without much feedback. I got a loaner 2016 or 16 F30 one one service visit and it was significantly better. My M240 is a little better than that, still not in the ballpark of my e90 335.

I just drove my car to work and actually did notice the lack of heft / feedback 1" at center.

It's not lifeless like an 80's GM product, it just feels light and reacts slowly compared to the rest of the steering. If I steer 1" back and forth it still rocks side to side, it just feels very light, especially in sport mode when the steering hefts up significantly past that 1" mark.

[BimBimM2]

OP, you need to stop listening to these damn talking heads and drive the cars yourself. While you are at it, drive an M4 as well. Come back home, lay out your wife's yoga mat, and meditate!

What the hell are you doing listening to these guys? I like the SP folks but reviewers by and large like to reinforce their audience biases. I have noticed that folks who end up with the M240i tend to be a lot more discerning about sports cars generally, hence the constant bitching about the steering... and so the reviews follow that.

Newsflash: the 440i has the same steering, but now coupled with a BIGGER HEAVIER ASS to manage. I drove these two cars side by side and the M240i is FAR better when it comes to steering feedback while managing its tinier, more athletic profile.

I have the HEAVIEST M240i configuration possible: an xDrive cabriolet. Yet it feels far more athletic than an xDrive 440i coupe. For sanity's sake I would recommend test driving an M4 as well.

Also, let's stop worrying about the HK. It was shit because its equalizer profile is crap. I hated it... till I Bimmer coded a different equalizer profile. Night and day difference! Bass is richer and deeper; less flat sound. Throttlesteer14 you should try that with BAVSound for an even more awesome experience.

Also, the M240i is essentially the 440i drivetrain with MPPSK. Also, the M Adaptive suspension in the M240i is a godsend.

Source: walked into it all blind. Test drove an M4 cabriolet, 440i coupe/cabriolet, and an M240i xdrive cabriolet. Ended up with a 2018 M240i xdrive cabriolet. (Note: these were all brand new cars at the time; all 2018 model year).

Edit: I should also add; the M240i is likely to spoil your perspective on Bimmers. Your best bet would be a graduation to Porsche after that. BMW needs to trim the FAT off its cars.

[Sportstick]

I drove the 2 and 4 coupes a few years back before making a choice, and the 2 was the only one I wanted to drive again. I'm at a lower level of engine performance than you are considering, but the experience of the entire car was quite different. "Boaty" is charitable to describe the difference in perceived heft.

Without igniting the howls from both sides on the rwd vs XDrive debate, I will just offer a simple fact, based on your comments about the steering and the on-center dead zone. RWD allows, and XDrive is incompatible with, one of my top two favorite mods...swapping out the lower control arms for the M2 versions (Turner Motorsports has the kit). It eliminated the on-center looseness and increased the steering responsiveness across the board and (subjectively) I find it improved the feel a tad. I'd take that into consideration on your overall strategy for powertrain configuration and winter tire selection. I see you are in North Jersey, so this does require some careful thought.

[MarkDemma]

I'll second BimBimM2 about just drive the darned things.

When I was looking to replace my E46 330Ci ZHP, I test drove a M240i and a 440i back to back. One of the reasons I was reluctant to give up / held onto my E46 for so long was because it was one of the last BMWs you could own that had not gone from hydraulic to electronic steering. Yes, i know they have reasons to do it - mainly around reliability etc.

So how did they feel? Again, what BimBimM2 said. They basically have the same steering, but the 440i felt WAAAAY more big and bloated. It also felt like they were going for a more "cushy" ride in the 440i and I felt very unconnected to the road. The day I did the test drive, I was RELIEVED go get back into my 14 year old car again. That's not a good sign when you've just driven the latest and greatest - you should feel wow I really want this thing! I do admit that the 440 had a very nice interior / dash. If comfort / luxury is something that is important to you, then the 4er will give you more of that.

I test drove a M4 as well, even though there was just about no way I would be able to afford one. It also felt pretty bloated and unconnected to me. The power, while it could be fun, just felt excessive. I remember seeing someone driving a brand new, dealer tags still on it, M4 out of my work parking lot once and the guy could barely handle it. The M4 in my mind is a car for showing off, not for folks that are true enthusiasts. The newest model with it's ridiculous front just cements that image for me.

When I did my test drives of the M240i, I do admit that the steering still wasn't as connected as my E46 - but it was definitely acceptable. Had plenty of power - all you need really. Definitely felt like something fun to drive down twisty roads. While the interior wasn't as luxurious as the 4, it had improved a lot since the 135 coupe and had up to date tech. For me, the nimble / fun to drive factor was way more important than the luxury.

I test drove a M2 for good measure. The salesperson actually encouraged me to have some fun with it. I do admit that it was the best handling fast car I'd driven in a long while. While not as much power as the M4 I'd recently driven, I felt it was way better to control. The drawbacks were that even in comfort the drive was kinda harsh and the dealbreaker for me was that I already had negotiated $10K off MSRP on a M240i (incentive was good at that time) and the M2 was $5K over MSRP. I couldn't justify paying over $20K more.

I'd say that if you are coming from an E92 3er, which IMHO had the absolute WORST steering in a BMW like ever (first gen with the electronic steering) then either of them would be an upgrade for ya. If you value luxury get the 4, if you value nimble more get the 2. The sound in the 4 will be better I would think.

One last thing. I had one of the new 3s as a loaner car when getting mine serviced and I have to say that even though it was bigger that between the stiffer CLAR platform and more steering tweaks it was definitely an improvement over the last gen 3/4. I may have even considered a new 4 until I saw that grill. When I heard that the new 2 was being built on CLAR it did give me some hope, as long as they don't screw up the styling as bad as some of the things we've seen recently.

[Rockfresh15]

Yes, very much agreed that a test drive is needed, and I'll be looking to schedule one asap, though unfortunately it won't be true apples to apples without the MSPPK.

Originally Posted by elliswyatt

If you really want the 440i, you will need to be patient and/or lucky to find a used one equipped the way you want. There are only a few new ones out there with the Track Handling package. Good luck!

It doesn't look like the one they're raving about on Straight Pipes has the track handling package, so if steering/handling can impress them, I'm hopeful it can impress me, someone who drove a 430 a bit back and a 230 a couple weeks ago, and disliked the floaty steering, (but realize I must accept it, and hoping some are better than others) -- hopefully something I can sort out with my test drives.

I honestly wouldn't get too hung up on the HK sound system. I started with the non-HK base system and did the BAVSound upgrade. Swapping the 5 speakers and two woofers transformed the sound system. It took all of a few hours and helped me familiarize myself with the car. You can get substantially more "audiophile-esque" with your solution, but it takes a little more time to dial things in. The BAVSound approach was plug-n-play and I didn't have to mess with the amp to get good sound.

Right, and this is the kinda thing that sounds like a major headache for me. I KNOW I wouldn't change a thing about the HK setup in my e92, which is rare for me to say about any sound system, so fiddling around with different expensive speakers that may or may not give me what I want sounds like a hassle I'd like to skip. Sorry ya'll, but the music experience is a significant part of what I love about driving, so this weighs heavy on me. Honestly, it was finding out about the 240's lackluster audio and the high praise of the 440 MSPPK handling and sound that sent me down this spiral.

I just drove my car to work and actually did notice the lack of heft / feedback 1" at center.

It's not lifeless like an 80's GM product, it just feels light and reacts slowly compared to the rest of the steering. If I steer 1" back and forth it still rocks side to side, it just feels very light, especially in sport mode when the steering hefts up significantly past that 1" mark.

Yup, just read a whole thread about this here. Enough people complaining about it that, coupled with me knowing I won't like any electric steering, I'm sure I'll be dying to modify it, and have limited options to do so with xDrive -- which is a must for me with winters in NJ -- also why M2/M4 is out of the question, aside from harsher rides, expense, and, IMHO, boring interiors.

Also, let's stop worrying about the HK. It was shit because its equalizer profile is crap. I hated it... till I Bimmer coded a different equalizer profile. Night and day difference! Bass is richer and deeper; less flat sound. Throttlesteer14 you should try that with BAVSound for an even more awesome experience.

Read this too, but still not totally convinced it'll meet expectations, though I'm sure it's an appreciable improvement.

So for me, outside of differences that'll (for the most part) be resolved with a test drive. Fixing the audio and (potentially) sharpening the steering feel on an xDrive M240 seem like more headache-y variables which I won't even know if they solve my issues until all the work is done and paid for.

Whereas, if I find the 440 driving acceptable, I KNOW the MSPPK takes care of most of my concerns.

[TheSniper]

The sound system really is an easy fix.

[Denk]

Just my 2 cents...I went from an e92 M3 to a M240ix and while the M240i is noticeably faster in normal driving due to the increase in torque, I still found the e92 M3 more of a thrill to drive. The steering feel and the S65 put a bigger smile on my face. The M240i is still a blast but the e92 M3 wins in the grins.

[Rockfresh15]

Originally Posted by TheSniper

The sound system really is an easy fix.

Is it thooooo? It's not like I can go listen to different setups or even individual speakers to make sure I get what I want, and as far as drop-in replacements go, replacing these speakers seems expensive and limited. (Eton, focal, bavsound, etc.)

[4Hockey4]

Steering feel. Owners and reviewers alike complain not just of numbness but up to an inch of play on dead-center. I've driven newer BMWs and this sounds very annoying and potentially cruise-ruining going fast on a highway with that kinda "responsiveness." Would definitely be looking to remedy this with aftermarket parts, another sort of guess and check endeavor (albeit less so than the sound system) especially for xDrives.

I popped in Powerflex upper arm bushings and made huge difference. Tighter steering and more confidence on corners. Less play, very little NVH. I drove the 4 series some too, it felt bigger and less nimble to me, so went 2. Lower arms are good also, (bushings made enough difference for me) but I'd def. do upper thrust too so the wheel is still centrally located...thats preference for me anyways.

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Yes, very much agreed that a test drive is needed, and I'll be looking to schedule one asap, though unfortunately it won't be true apples to apples without the MSPPK.

MPPSK isn't improving any handling characteristics, but perhaps i may be reading you wrong. It is essentially a tune and an exhaust setup.

The MPPSK tune that you see on 440i is standard on M240i.

I cannot begin to tell you how much of a boat the 440i feels versus the smaller 2er.

Test driving will certainly give you the right data, as honestly you can't go wrong with either car.

[Rockfresh15]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

Steering feel. Owners and reviewers alike complain not just of numbness but up to an inch of play on dead-center. I've driven newer BMWs and this sounds very annoying and potentially cruise-ruining going fast on a highway with that kinda "responsiveness." Would definitely be looking to remedy this with aftermarket parts, another sort of guess and check endeavor (albeit less so than the sound system) especially for xDrives.

I popped in Powerflex upper arm bushings and made huge difference. Tighter steering and more confidence on corners. Less play, very little NVH. I drove the 4 series some too, it felt bigger and less nimble to me, so went 2. Lower arms are good also, (bushings made enough difference for me) but I'd def. do upper thrust too so the wheel is still centrally located...thats preference for me anyways.

Right, but LCAs and upper thrust are only for RWD, if I'm not mistaken

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Right, but LCAs and upper thrust are only for RWD, if I'm not mistaken

Upper thrust bushings made a huge difference was my point..don't know about AWD.

[Rockfresh15]

Originally Posted by BimBimM2

MPPSK isn't improving any handling characteristics, but perhaps i may be reading you wrong. It is essentially a tune and an exhaust setup.

The MPPSK tune that you see on 440i is standard on M240i.

I cannot begin to tell you how much of a boat the 440i feels versus the smaller 2er.

Test driving will certainly give you the right data, as honestly you can't go wrong with either car.

Honestly, if I find a xDrive 440 with snapper rocks blue metallic paint and cognac interior, it's over for the M240.






But absent my great white buffalo, this remains a tough call..

has anyone here actually driven both the M240 and the MSPPK 440i?

[BimBimM2]

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Honestly, if I find a xDrive 440 with snapper rocks blue metallic paint and cognac interior, it's over for the M240.

Attachment 2385132
Attachment 2385133



But absent my great white buffalo, this remains a tough call..

has anyone here actually driven both the M240 and the MSPPK 440i?

I have. Read my post above the 440i coupe was with an MPSSK.

But I have to say, blue with cognac is MAGIC!!!

[TheSniper]

Originally Posted by Rockfresh15

Is it thooooo? It's not like I can go listen to different setups or even individual speakers to make sure I get what I want, and as far as drop-in replacements go, replacing these speakers seems expensive and limited. (Eton, focal, bavsound, etc.)

You can code out the piped in 'engine noise' and either disconnect or code out the center speaker. It makes a world of difference.

[gosi]

I drove an e92 before I bought the f22 M240i. A few things that I noticed:

1. Quality of materials is in places better in the f22, but in general that is not the case and the e92 feels slightly more premium.

2. The f22 feels smaller. Very small difference overall and the driving position and feel behind the wheel is largely the same. I enjoy the smaller size and shorter doors on the 2er.

3. Steering is awful in the f22 compared to the old 3 series. Weight and responsivness is on par, but there is no feeling of the road and tires at all. I’ve gone to MPSS tires, powerflex upper arm bushings and I am just now starting to get a slight sense of what the front tires are doing. This is my biggest personal regret of going to the M240. I would love to have a good hydraulic system back. As far as I know the 4 series has the same rack basically so should be the same. I haven’t driven one so can’t comment. Also the black powerflex bushings I went with do increase NVH noticeably.

4. Had base speakers in the e92 and have base again in the f22, so can not comment 😂

I changed from my e92 for the same reason as you, because I had a lower powered one. If I had a 335i, I don’t think the upgrade would be worthwhile.

[elliswyatt]

Originally Posted by TheSniper

You can code out the piped in 'engine noise' and either disconnect or code out the center speaker. It makes a world of difference.

Why does eliminating the center speaker make such a big difference?