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      02-13-2019, 07:50 AM   #1
nobelium27
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Can your RWD w/ winter tire handle snow covered rockies?

I'm moving to Colorado soon and I'm looking forward to driving on the rockies and snowboarding! I'm currently looking to upgrade to m235i or m240i from 228i, and I have this dilemma. Can I really go with RWD route and feel safe driving up to the ski resorts? I've been rocking winter tires in the winter and I've been driving past sedans, SUVs, and trucks on snow days in Illinois. But the roads are usually flatter and snow isn't completely covering the roads most of the time, like it would driving up to the resorts. I would much rather have an RWD than an AWD, but if I'm going to be driving up the mountains pretty much every other weekend, I think it might just be worth going with the x-drive. What do you think?
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      02-13-2019, 08:42 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobelium27 View Post
I'm moving to Colorado soon and I'm looking forward to driving on the rockies and snowboarding! I'm currently looking to upgrade to m235i or m240i from 228i, and I have this dilemma. Can I really go with RWD route and feel safe driving up to the ski resorts?
As a kid back in the 50s, we lived in the Mountain States. RWD worked for us then, and the tires didn't compare to what's available today in terms of traction in the cold.

The principal difference between RWD and AWD is getting away from a dead stop in low-traction situations. Knowledgeable drivers with RWD do their best to avoid circumstances that could leave them unable to get the car moving.
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      02-13-2019, 08:50 AM   #3
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Buy the BMW you want for clear wx and buy a beater to go out in the snow.
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      02-13-2019, 09:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
As a kid back in the 50s, we lived in the Mountain States. RWD worked for us then, and the tires didn't compare to what's available today in terms of traction in the cold.

The principal difference between RWD and AWD is getting away from a dead stop in low-traction situations. Knowledgeable drivers with RWD do their best to avoid circumstances that could leave them unable to get the car moving.
Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm just worried about those situations where there are cars backed up on an uphill where I have to come to a stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wichitagreg View Post
Buy the BMW you want for clear wx and buy a beater to go out in the snow.
I thought about it but I'm only going to have 1 car garage so I don't really have space for it
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      02-13-2019, 09:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobelium27 View Post
I'm just worried about those situations where there are cars backed up on an uphill where I have to come to a stop.
Right. That's the part where I would choose not to start up the hill if there are cars ahead of me and I might have to stop at the back of the line with no way out. Of course, you can't always control that, esp. if you need to get on the road to go home.

Car and Driver has done some good reporting on snow tires. I'd like it if they would add an uphill section to their testing, because I've wondered how well today's better snow tires perform in the situation you've described.

There are a handful of CO owners here - hopefully one or more of them will chime in.
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      02-13-2019, 10:06 AM   #6
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With the right snow tires, any 2er can climb mountains of snow.

I survived many many harsh winter conditions with some Dunlop 4D Wintersport tires, never got stuck or lost control..

Don't underestimate the potential of a RWD Bimmer with some proper shoes..
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      02-13-2019, 10:31 AM   #7
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I live an hour outside the Canadian Rockies, you can go anywhere in this car so long as you have the ground clearance. I have the M differential which helps, but I went 4 winters without it before this year. You'll be fine in the mountains with just rwd. The combination of winter tires and traction control is enough to get going anywhere.
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      02-13-2019, 11:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
With the right snow tires, any 2er can climb mountains of snow.

I survived many many harsh winter conditions with some Dunlop 4D Wintersport tires, never got stuck or lost control..

Don't underestimate the potential of a RWD Bimmer with some proper shoes..
I have the Blizzak WS80 and it's been stellar!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
I live an hour outside the Canadian Rockies, you can go anywhere in this car so long as you have the ground clearance. I have the M differential which helps, but I went 4 winters without it before this year. You'll be fine in the mountains with just rwd. The combination of winter tires and traction control is enough to get going anywhere.
That's really good to hear. I might just keep my 228i for a while and see how things are before pulling any triggers.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
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      02-17-2019, 10:05 PM   #9
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Alternate opinion here. While you can definitely get around with RWD and good snow tires. I would argue that mountain driving, when it gets bad, can get pretty dicey. I for one just purchased an M235 Xdrive because I want the added performance of AWD for those times when you need it. I ski every weekend and have passed thousands of cars in the ditch. I have always had AWD + snows and drive right by them year after year. I have a friend with a 335is + Blizzaks and he got stranded in a parking lot. I would follow your gut here. The forum advice is always "your less of a man if drive an AWD car. All you need is snow tires and you'll be fine". Let me know how driving over Vail pass, Berthoud Pass, Rabbit ears pass etc goes for you in a blizzard. The VAST amount of cars out here populating the ski area parking lots are AWD or 4x4 (also with snow tires). I would be careful listening to the macho majority.
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      02-17-2019, 10:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCBuff View Post
Alternate opinion here. While you can definitely get around with RWD and good snow tires. I would argue that mountain driving, when it gets bad, can get pretty dicey. I for one just purchased an M235 Xdrive because I want the added performance of AWD for those times when you need it. I ski every weekend and have passed thousands of cars in the ditch. I have always had AWD + snows and drive right by them year after year. I have a friend with a 335is + Blizzaks and he got stranded in a parking lot. I would follow your gut here. The forum advice is always "your less of a man if drive an AWD car. All you need is snow tires and you'll be fine". Let me know how driving over Vail pass, Berthoud Pass, Rabbit ears pass etc goes for you in a blizzard. The VAST amount of cars out here populating the ski area parking lots are AWD or 4x4 (also with snow tires). I would be careful listening to the macho majority.
Were your friend’s Blizzaks the most capable “studless” WS model or the far less useful “performance” winter Blizzak LM model? Some who set out to get Blizzaks get sidetracked and lured by the false premise of having the best of both worlds and wind up with the poorer winter-performing LM series. BMW drivers seem particularly susceptible.

Also curious...if you’ve always had AWD, upon what is the basis for your comparison?

I'm also trying to understand the logic that the "vast" majority where you ski are AWD/4x4, but you have passed "thousands" in the ditch, so it seems many in the ditch were AWD, no? What tires did they each use?

I don't think the alternative opinion is about macho or the lack thereof. It's just questioning the need which has detrimental effects for all the other times/places all year long. Each to their own if it's worth it or not with no reflection on manhood either way.

Last edited by Sportstick; 02-17-2019 at 10:37 PM..
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      02-17-2019, 10:45 PM   #11
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First the two car solution will not provide anything your said your looking for in terms of safety. Chances are since it's a beater it will be much less safe and get stuck easier even with winter tyres.

Second is the decision between AWD & RWD a money issue? You need to decide because I don't think anyone can really argue that xDrive + Good Winter tyres would provide the best of all worlds. I've always had a RWD car as this is my first AWD so it's hard for me to compare but I'm sure that AWD isn't going to be worst then RWD in the snow. Might not be incredibly better but not worst.

Third The biggest problem with AWD is the drives who forget no matter what you have they all only have the same 4 brakes.
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      02-17-2019, 10:47 PM   #12
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it's all in the tires. AWD with mediocre all seasons will be awful in snow. Not as bad as rwd with bad tires but almost.

I had Michelin primacy all seasons on my previous is350awd and it was awful at handling, braking and overall stability. It was ok at moving from a standstill though...
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      02-17-2019, 10:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Were your friend’s Blizzaks the most capable “studless” WS model or the far less useful “performance” winter Blizzak LM model? Some who set out to get Blizzaks get sidetracked and lured by the false premise of having the best of both worlds and wind up with the poorer winter-performing LM series. BMW drivers seem particularly susceptible.

Also curious...if you’ve always had AWD, upon what is the basis for your comparison?

I'm also trying to understand the logic that the "vast" majority where you ski are AWD/4x4, but you have passed "thousands" in the ditch, so it seems many in the ditch were AWD, no? What tires did they each use?

I don't think the alternative opinion is about macho or the lack thereof. It's just questioning the need which has detrimental effects for all the other times/places all year long. Each to their own if it's worth it or not with no reflection on manhood either way.
1st car that royally sucked in the snow for me was an e36 328i. Have had others , like a Honda prelude for instance. It is impossible to give an answer with all possible details to satisfy everyone. Recent experience, I have a 4Runner with newish BFG all terrains ( not snows I know) locked in 4x4 high and struggled to get up to winter park a couple of weeks ago. There were people everywhere as it was exceedingly slick. My wife in her e70 awd X5 + snows blazed right up without drama. For someone like the OP who is going to ski most every weekend, I personally would recommend AWD.
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      02-17-2019, 11:06 PM   #14
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I know this is a little off topic but be aware that BMW sets your top end speed limiter based on the tires you originally order with the car and it cannot be easily changed afterwards. On the m550i All-Seasons get 130mp and Performance tires get 155mph. Just a FYI
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      02-17-2019, 11:53 PM   #15
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I grew up in the boulder area and I have driven all sorts of vehicles in the mountains to go skiing. I only visit for skiiing now every winter since I joined the Army 14 years ago, and I take what ever rental I can get. Last time I lucked out and got a 328i since they ran out of every other car on the lot. It handled just fine and it only had all season tires on it. The time before that was a Charger. A colbalt was the only car I ever had issues with actually. My dads RWD Privia minivan was just fine with good snow tires on it in fact. Good tires obviously are needed, but driving smart/safe, planning ahead, and knowing how to properly handle each individual car if you lose traction is key. The cities do extremely well with snow removal too, so it's not really much to worry about 90% of the time. You will absolutely love Colorado!
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      02-18-2019, 09:06 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Clear_Blue22 View Post
I grew up in the boulder area and I have driven all sorts of vehicles in the mountains to go skiing. I only visit for skiiing now every winter since I joined the Army 14 years ago, and I take what ever rental I can get. Last time I lucked out and got a 328i since they ran out of every other car on the lot. It handled just fine and it only had all season tires on it. The time before that was a Charger. A colbalt was the only car I ever had issues with actually. My dads RWD Privia minivan was just fine with good snow tires on it in fact. Good tires obviously are needed, but driving smart/safe, planning ahead, and knowing how to properly handle each individual car if you lose traction is key. The cities do extremely well with snow removal too, so it's not really much to worry about 90% of the time. You will absolutely love Colorado!
I agree, 90% of the time, no worries. It's the other 10% of the time...
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      02-18-2019, 10:17 AM   #17
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A RWD 2 series on appropriate snow tires will be pretty killer, though there's no denying an AWD 2 series on the same snow tires will be even more capable starting out and around turns.

With that said, if you ski all the time and will venture out onto snow covered mountain roads routinely, I don't think I'd be doing it in a 2 series. For 1, winter/snow tires take all the driving fun out of these cars in dry and 40+ temps. And 2, I'd want 4WD on some good, somewhat narrow, slight off-road snow tires. The ground clearance of the 2 series isn't good and you risk damaging the front end on iced clunks from road clearing and other cars.

My RWD M235 6MT on square 225/40R18 winter performance Alpin PA4s is pretty dang good in 3-4 inch snow or less and the hilly areas where I live, but I couldn't fathom driving around on these tires all the time. 3 months is all I can do. They just neuter all the fun.
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      02-18-2019, 11:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
A RWD 2 series on appropriate snow tires will be pretty killer, though there's no denying an AWD 2 series on the same snow tires will be even more capable starting out and around turns.

With that said, if you ski all the time and will venture out onto snow covered mountain roads routinely, I don't think I'd be doing it in a 2 series. For 1, winter/snow tires take all the driving fun out of these cars in dry and 40+ temps. And 2, I'd want 4WD on some good, somewhat narrow, slight off-road snow tires. The ground clearance of the 2 series isn't good and you risk damaging the front end on iced clunks from road clearing and other cars.

My RWD M235 6MT on square 225/40R18 winter performance Alpin PA4s is pretty dang good in 3-4 inch snow or less and the hilly areas where I live, but I couldn't fathom driving around on these tires all the time. 3 months is all I can do. They just neuter all the fun.
I have the same Alpin PA4 setup and traction is a joke. Can't wait to get back to summer tires in April. When my 255 MPSS are worn out in late May, I'm pulling the trigger on 265 P4S. I wish we could fit 275's.
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      02-18-2019, 12:49 PM   #19
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First, I am so jealous of you. lol

I would get AWD if I am in your situation for sure.
2wd with snow tire will do just fine but awd will be always better with same snow tire.

Mountain weather is not predictable. It can get nasty very quickly.
You may hit a hill that 2wd simply cannot go up.
There is a reason why Subaru sells that much in Colorado.
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      02-18-2019, 06:53 PM   #20
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"That's the part where I would choose not to start up the hill if there are cars ahead of me..."

Well that's possible in Ohio but in the Rockies, hills go on for miles.
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      02-19-2019, 08:31 AM   #21
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Quote:
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"That's the part where I would choose not to start up the hill if there are cars ahead of me..."

Well that's possible in Ohio but in the Rockies, hills go on for miles.
I was born in Denver, spent quite a bit of time in the Mountain States, and then another 20+ years in Northern New England...so, yeah, I get it.
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      02-19-2019, 12:30 PM   #22
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My answer: No. buy the xDrive and still put winter rubber on if you're driving through snowy mountains. This coming from an avid skier who has M3 with an M-diff on winter tires and owned a 235xi with winter tires. The 235xi had very RWD biased xDrive and other than a little steering compromise, I never felt the AWD was a negative.

I also have an Audi so only drive the M3 to mountains when roads are bare or wet.
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