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      08-14-2019, 01:20 AM   #23
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Thanks for the in depth review of these. I know you are liking the Focal 6.900 amp. Any others that you feel would be worth upgrading to?
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      08-14-2019, 03:07 PM   #24
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This is the amp I would get today.

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Thanks for the in depth review of these. I know you are liking the Focal 6.900 amp. Any others that you feel would be worth upgrading to?
https://adcaraudio.com/store/product/adp1500-6/
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      08-14-2019, 03:10 PM   #25
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Steve Mantz producing amps for Audio Dynamics

The Premium Series amplifiers are engineered in the USA with superior full-range Class D technology that surpasses the expectations of the most critical listener. Once heard, you will not believe the clarity and volume is coming from such a compact package.
Premium and Mini Premium amplifiers has been designed from the ground up by the renowned Stephen Mantz of ZED Audio. Stephen’s four decades of experience designing amplifiers position him as one the most experienced mobile electronics engineer in the industry. These amplifiers feature a discrete Class D circuit for hi-fidelity sound quality, ultra flexible preamp capable of any active crossover situation, click in place crossover potentiometers for accurate crossover frequency selection, and the most efficient power supply which demands less on your electrical system.
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      08-14-2019, 03:18 PM   #26
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I am extremely particular about amplifier quality

in contrast to speakers. I believe that a high quality amplifier with enormous reserves of clean power trumps speakers and a mediocre BMW hifi head unit in the F22.

If you are starting this hobby, spend the most on the amplifier. My Focal has paid dividends year after year.

Once would think my Hertz and OEM subs would have blown up already, with my amp maxed out, but after 4 years of listening, it amazes me how enormous amount of clean power prevents speaker damage.
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      08-14-2019, 04:52 PM   #27
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This is the amp, but sadly no longer made.

Zed Audio/Leviathan III. If you can find one second hand and it is working, you have won the lottery.
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      08-14-2019, 06:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Zed Audio/Leviathan III. If you can find one second hand and it is working, you have won the lottery.
Guess it's worth the investment! Definitely don't consider myself an audiophile, but do want a bit more oomf out of the subs.

Thanks again for the recommendations and sharing your experience.
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      08-15-2019, 03:13 PM   #29
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With a high quality amp you will get your OOOPM!!

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Originally Posted by sdhasher21 View Post
Guess it's worth the investment! Definitely don't consider myself an audiophile, but do want a bit more oomf out of the subs.

Thanks again for the recommendations and sharing your experience.
Curious, did you get hifi or Harmon Kardon radio?
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      08-15-2019, 05:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhasher21 View Post
Guess it's worth the investment! Definitely don't consider myself an audiophile, but do want a bit more oomf out of the subs.

Thanks again for the recommendations and sharing your experience.
Curious, did you get hifi or Harmon Kardon radio?
HK
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      08-16-2019, 05:54 PM   #31
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How did you remove the accessory tray

Edit: nevermind
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      08-16-2019, 06:17 PM   #32
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HK is a nice system

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HK
I had it in my 135i convertible. Good sound, just short of great. The Logic7 amplifier isn't that great. The ohm ratings of the speakers are a bit unusual, but nothing that a high powered amp replacement can't fix
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      08-19-2019, 12:33 PM   #33
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So - after reading this thread - would it make sense then to treat the front 3 speakers as a fancy 3 way? You have tweets for very high, the mids in the doors for upper mid, and mids below the seat for lower mid, and then have a true sub in the trunk for the extreme stuff?

Seth
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      08-19-2019, 02:01 PM   #34
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Sort of

Quote:
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So - after reading this thread - would it make sense then to treat the front 3 speakers as a fancy 3 way? You have tweets for very high, the mids in the doors for upper mid, and mids below the seat for lower mid, and then have a true sub in the trunk for the extreme stuff?

Seth
I have coaxials which combine the tweeter with the woofer in the doors. For really low frequency (more sound that is felt rather than heard), a trunk sub will help.

In my honest opinion, for most listening, the underseat subs are good enough with high quality amplifier power. Just don't spend too much.
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      08-22-2019, 10:08 PM   #35
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I wasn't planning on a trunk sub because I need the space really, but also I feel the existing 'subs' with the right amp and EQ are 'good enough' for daily use and like you say there's more ROI messing with the underseats and amp than there is with a dedicated trunk setup.
Right now they are a bit boomy without that low kick in OEM guise and I was just looking to tighten it up and roll them off lower.

But you have coax in the door, not separates with the sail panel?
I'm on the fence about both and would be running active crossovers anyway to be able to fine tune.

Seth
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      08-27-2019, 06:05 PM   #36
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Coaxial is fine

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Originally Posted by sethwas View Post
I wasn't planning on a trunk sub because I need the space really, but also I feel the existing 'subs' with the right amp and EQ are 'good enough' for daily use and like you say there's more ROI messing with the underseats and amp than there is with a dedicated trunk setup.
Right now they are a bit boomy without that low kick in OEM guise and I was just looking to tighten it up and roll them off lower.

But you have coax in the door, not separates with the sail panel?
I'm on the fence about both and would be running active crossovers anyway to be able to fine tune.

Seth
Sail panels help sell Harmon Kardon radios in BMWs. It's a great upsell at the dealership because you can see it.

I thought about components as well but decided against complexity and effort vs. improvement in sound quality.

For me its all about a high power clean current amplifier and decent speakers.

I can not believe I have not blown up my Hertz or under seat subs!
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      08-28-2019, 04:50 PM   #37
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Great write up FF!
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      08-29-2019, 08:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght View Post
Sail panels help sell Harmon Kardon radios in BMWs. It's a great upsell at the dealership because you can see it.
Thanks - the issue I have is I can get front speakers without a crossover when I buy 'separates' but when I buy them as a single unit I have to pay for the crossover I don't need (running active).
There's a huge thread here on moving to the sail panel method due to 'raising' the soundstage and also moving away from the door pull which 'blocks' the sound. Honestly I can't really tell that much. I've only heard the stock HK system which was meh to me, and super redic high end systems in the M2 which cost half as much as I paid for my car in the first place. It's why I have the non-hk setup, so I can swap it out cheaply.

Personally, my experience leads me to your camp. The 4" height difference between the sail panel and door panel sonically shouldn't be noticeable especially with something like the match amp which I have where you can tweak everything. I found the ability to get higher quality speakers is easier in separates than a coax component setup so the sound improves just naturally. That and there is a serious mounting depth issue with our doors and getting a narrow speaker for clearance limits the selection anyway. (really want the audiofrog GS42 but not sure they clear the doors).

So in reality I don't care much for sail panel or not, but since regardless of whether I go that route I need to run a separate cable from the amp to the tweet and dampen the door (so its not any less complex), I may as well, as it seems like I can get a higher class of speaker for the same money as going the coax route. (willing to be convinced otherwise)

On the fence between Morel 402 (only available in coax) and Audison or Hertz, or CDT. All in they are approx $199/pair for a separate 4" Mid and tweet +- a few bucks. Audison/CDT are the only one that makes a drop in replacement which saves complexity as its got the tri-hole mount and spacer built in. But the Morel Tempo seems to be less, and the Audison Voce is less too without the fancy mount. Wish I could hear them but that's never possible (I like warm speakers not bright).

Seth

Last edited by sethwas; 08-29-2019 at 10:24 AM..
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      08-29-2019, 06:36 PM   #39
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No problem!

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Great write up FF!
Sharing the F22 audio love!
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      08-29-2019, 06:57 PM   #40
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Sail panel isn't the only place you can mount your tweeter

Quote:
Originally Posted by sethwas View Post
Thanks - the issue I have is I can get front speakers without a crossover when I buy 'separates' but when I buy them as a single unit I have to pay for the crossover I don't need (running active).
There's a huge thread here on moving to the sail panel method due to 'raising' the soundstage and also moving away from the door pull which 'blocks' the sound. Honestly I can't really tell that much. I've only heard the stock HK system which was meh to me, and super redic high end systems in the M2 which cost half as much as I paid for my car in the first place. It's why I have the non-hk setup, so I can swap it out cheaply.

Personally, my experience leads me to your camp. The 4" height difference between the sail panel and door panel sonically shouldn't be noticeable especially with something like the match amp which I have where you can tweak everything. I found the ability to get higher quality speakers is easier in separates than a coax component setup so the sound improves just naturally. That and there is a serious mounting depth issue with our doors and getting a narrow speaker for clearance limits the selection anyway. (really want the audiofrog GS42 but not sure they clear the doors).

So in reality I don't care much for sail panel or not, but since regardless of whether I go that route I need to run a separate cable from the amp to the tweet and dampen the door (so its not any less complex), I may as well, as it seems like I can get a higher class of speaker for the same money as going the coax route. (willing to be convinced otherwise)

On the fence between Morel 402 (only available in coax) and Audison or Hertz, or CDT. All in they are approx $199/pair for a separate 4" Mid and tweet +- a few bucks. Audison/CDT are the only one that makes a drop in replacement which saves complexity as its got the tri-hole mount and spacer built in. But the Morel Tempo seems to be less, and the Audison Voce is less too without the fancy mount. Wish I could hear them but that's never possible (I like warm speakers not bright).

Seth
For the serious tweeter enthusiast, here is a serious vendor:

https://www.ebay.com/str/valicarstuttgart
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      09-02-2019, 08:53 AM   #41
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I love that - and lets me keep my OEM sail panels - would do that in a hearbeat (certainly is cheaper than trying to find the HK sail panels and modify them).

Only issue I can think of (ignoring the $800/p cost of the the tweeters in that photo... is that they aren't invisible and the externalities associated with that) is that it narrows the already narrow soundstage of this car. May have to do a mock up with paperclips and chewing gum to see.

Edit: So I went and its super tight. You could throw a tweeter pod on the dash on the passenger side just where the A pillar meets the glass and its discrete, almost classy even.
But the drivers side may not work. The sail panel is further to the left of the drivers head than the A pillar, and its also closer to that door mid. I think if the goal is to get the speakers as wide and close together as possible then it has to be in the sail.
The only other advantage to putting in a pod on the base of the pillar by the glass is you can face the tweeter better as opposed to it basically just firing across the car laterally but can actually.

Will ask the shop doing the work what their experience has been since pods are cheaper than sail panels (about half price) and easier to wire as well (since you don't have to pull wire through the door at all). This would be active so can adjust some parameters related to timing and EQ of course and there's no extra charge there as I would need to tune the setup regardless.

Seth

Last edited by sethwas; 09-02-2019 at 04:01 PM..
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