[dboreham]

Hello hopefully this is not too dumb a question. I have very little history with BMW so far. I'm looking at (so far, online) a 2016 M235i convertible on a (BMW) dealer lot in CA with 50K miles. The vehicle appears to be in good condition. However, the carfax history looks "weird" to me. I've reviewed probably 100 carfax reports for similar age vehicles over the past few years. I've never seen one that didn't have a single oil change or scheduled maintenance listed. When asked about this, salesperson mumbled about it having probably been serviced out of network or something, but they had for sure changed the oil when it came into their possession. But when I asked to see paperwork for that oil change, the story changed to "it was done when it was traded in at the previous dealer" and "we queried the vehicle and it says there's 8K miles to go before the next change".

So, question is: does this seem ok or fishy? And is there a practical way to assess if the engine has been abused? afaik this engine doesn't have a dip stick so can't do a visual inspection of lubricant. Thanks. Hope that makes some sense.

[pikcachu]

Carfax is all BS.... i've seen cars for fact with an engine replacement and carfax didn't show nothing and the engine was replaced at a BMW dealer...

I'm mean it could be the owner did the oil changes him/her self...

Only way would be to get an oil sample and get the oil analyzed but even that would only show anything if the oil has been used for a while else if they just put new oil, it won't show anything

[dradernh]

It's important to understand that Carfax is not at all a reliable means of judging an automobile's condition. AFAIK, it exists principally to assist dealers in moving their inventory.

For example, I've had a number of services performed that don't show up on a Carfax report. Why? Because the outfits doing the servicing don't report to Carfax. Hello!

Why is that? I assume it's because they've chosen not to sign a contract with Carfax because either Carfax failed to offer them enough to convince them to do so or they see such a relationship as being detrimental to their business. I don't really know.

The bottom line is the same as it's always been: find an independent, qualified shop capable of evaluating the car you're considering purchasing. Given today's prices, this approach is more important than ever.

I see that you're in Montana. Nevertheless, this organization is an excellent resource when looking for a shop capable of evaluating a car you're considering: https://www.bimrs.org/find-a-shop.html.

Best of luck; and, from long experience, I suggest being cautious before pulling the trigger.

[dboreham]

Originally Posted by dradernh

It's important to understand that Carfax is not at all a reliable means of judging an automobile's condition. AFAIK, it exists principally to assist dealers in moving their inventory.

Ah, interesting, I had gotten the opposite impression based on pulling the carfax on a couple of vehicles I sold -- they had all kinds of records that I didn't expect to have been recorded -- oil changes at pony express, minor body work at mom and pop shops and so on. That gave me the idea that these days there must be some carfax mandate in the industry.

I see that you're in Montana. Nevertheless, this organization is an excellent resource when looking for a shop capable of evaluating a car you're considering: https://www.bimrs.org/find-a-shop.html.

Best of luck; and, from long experience, I suggest being cautious before pulling the trigger.

The car is actually in CA, although not too near any of the shops listed there.

[Toddbmw]

Originally Posted by dboreham

Ah, interesting, I had gotten the opposite impression based on pulling the carfax on a couple of vehicles I sold -- they had all kinds of records that I didn't expect to have been recorded -- oil changes at pony express, minor body work at mom and pop shops and so on. That gave me the idea that these days there must be some carfax mandate in the industry.

The car is actually in CA, although not too near any of the shops listed there.

Be careful of what you believe or your "ideas", there is no CarFax mandate.
As stated before, Carfax is optional reporting. Not sure what the details are with shops relationship with Carfax.
My take on using Carfax, is that it will not specifically tell you to buy a certain car, but it certainly can tell you not to buy a certain car.

[atek]

*Previous Shop manager who reported to carfax here*

The main reason shops WONT report to Carfax is cost. It Isn't a free reporting service. It costs Shops a monthly or yearly plan/membership fee to report, on the basis that it improves customer relationships via shop / work performed history and transparency.

For dealerships this works both ways.

For Carfax, they make money both ways.

Hope this helps.

I can think of a few times myself or other techs forgot to "check" "report to carfax" once the RO was completed. It is 100% optional per work/job performed. Not mandated or even pre-determined in most cases.

[XutvJet]

Per Carfax, how long did the original owner have the car? 2016 BMWs had free maintenance through BMW for 4 years or 50K miles for the original owner. It included everything but tires.

It would seem odd to me that any BMW could not pull up the vehicle maintenance history in their system. I would think the car would have at least a few rounds of maintenance reported.

I would find it hard to believe that that car hasn't had oil changes plus the service light would be glowing too.

Luckily, oil changes and air filter change is all that's really needed by 50K miles, though a lot of do more than that.

If you get the car, I strongly recommend doing the following and it's all very easy to do yourself with basic tools and a few cheap specialty tools:

- Oil change with BMW 0W-30 LL oil and Mahle oil filter $100 and 1 hour
- OEM spark plugs $120 and 2 hours
- Air filter $40 and 2 minutes
- Cabin filter $30 and 10 minutes
- Radiator hose to coolant overflow tank hose $40 and 5 minutes
- Accessory belt tensioner and new accessory belt $200 and 1 hour
- Aftermarket charge pipe $300 and 2 hours
- Check the front brake pads and rotors. The rears should have lots of life left at 50K miles. New OEM front pads, rotors, and wear sensor are around $500 and 1-2 hours. I replaced my original front pads/rotors at 62K miles and I probably could have gone another 5K+.

[Mike F.]

Originally Posted by dradernh

The bottom line is the same as it's always been: find an independent, qualified shop capable of evaluating the car you're considering purchasing. Given today's prices, this approach is more important than ever.

I see that you're in Montana. Nevertheless, this organization is an excellent resource when looking for a shop capable of evaluating a car you're considering: https://www.bimrs.org/find-a-shop.html.

Best of luck; and, from long experience, I suggest being cautious before pulling the trigger.

This.

Where in Cali is the car?

[dboreham]

Originally Posted by Mike F.

This.

Where in Cali is the car?

Palm Springs

[dboreham]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Per Carfax, how long did the original owner have the car? 2016 BMWs had free maintenance through BMW for 4 years or 50K miles for the original owner. It included everything but tires.

It would seem odd to me that any BMW could not pull up the vehicle maintenance history in their system. I would think the car would have at least a few rounds of maintenance reported.

I would find it hard to believe that that car hasn't had oil changes plus the service light would be glowing too.

Thank you for the recommendations. I had the same thoughts as above. Carfax history suggests the vehicle was a dealer demo/courtesy initially then sold in San Jose. Next it was sold at auction at 9k miles and re-sold by a dealer again in San Jose. The bulk of the miles were added by the second owner (third if you count the first dealer), registered in Temecula. Carfax is silent until it showed up at the dealer selling it now. One theory I have is that the car was in Mexico. The car says it has had the oil changed (8000 miles to next change).

But, when I went to see the vehicle it was very clean (engine bay pristine, brake calipers shiny, pads not worn, coolant overflow pipe flexible). Dealer was vague about its history but said it was a trade-in to them. Said perhaps the owner changed their own oil or used an independent shop. I'm skeptical on that -- who doesn't service a vehicle with free maintenance that's still under warranty at the dealer? Since I pressed pretty hard for them to show me documentation proving maintenance, and they didn't, I presume that there is no recent history for the vehicle in their system. Dealer did produce the work order for them replacing the tires in August.

All that said I liked the car and the price was reasonable (negotiated down a little), they agreed to do the 4G telematics upgrade before delivery, so I pulled the trigger.

Once I get it home I'll look into doing the maintenance you suggest. I also need to get my head around the options for replacing the iDrive screen and/or head. The screen has some minimal delamination, which I understand from the 'webs was common. BMW claims the screens are unavailable now (actually they told me the screen isn't a separately replicable part which is obvious BS).