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      08-26-2022, 05:21 PM   #1
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Videos: Mid-Ohio

Got around to uploading some of my runs this past weekend with both the BMWCCA and Auto Interests. I'm a bit bummed it was so bright out cause for the Saturday/Sunday runs, the clouds kept the video normally exposed/in focus - so apologies on the washing out (enjoy the exhaust ASMR??)

Attaching the slower of the 2 because there was a mean GT3RS that I got to follow - and then lead (Laps 5/6)!:


And my fastest of the weekend. I think there's still a few seconds left in the car but for my second track weekend, I'll certainly take the results (Laps 1 and 5 are the only worth watching, I backed off for 6 cause I was dipping pretty low into fuel):
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      08-26-2022, 10:36 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Got around to uploading some of my runs this past weekend with both the BMWCCA and Auto Interests. I'm a bit bummed it was so bright out cause for the Saturday/Sunday runs, the clouds kept the video normally exposed/in focus - so apologies on the washing out (enjoy the exhaust ASMR??)

Attaching the slower of the 2 because there was a mean GT3RS that I got to follow - and then lead (Laps 5/6)!

And my fastest of the weekend. I think there's still a few seconds left in the car but for my second track weekend, I'll certainly take the results (Laps 1 and 5 are the only worth watching, I backed off for 6 cause I was dipping pretty low into fuel)
Excellent videos - your clean laps look very, very good!

Your camera may do a better job if it's placed in the windshield, where it doesn't have to manage the contrast between the interior and the outside. An added benefit is that you can then see precisely where your front tires are placed as you turn-in, apex, and exit each corner. That can help improve consistency, as videos can be more accurate than our memories.

I'm curious about which tires you were running. Our cars can stay on the throttle longer in the faster sections, but not if their tires aren't able to handle the much higher forces in the subsequent braking zones.

Your car's rear end would sit up and wiggle going into China Beach. Do you think that was tires, the track surface in the braking section, both, or maybe something else? My car did the same thing when I was looking for tenths at 138 MPH, and I have to say I didn't enjoy it very much.
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      08-26-2022, 11:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Your camera may do a better job if it's placed in the windshield, where it doesn't have to manage the contrast between the interior and the outside.
If you are using a GoPro, before hitting record, you can press and hold on a section of the screen you want to set the exposure to. Press where your windshield is and this will prevent the washout look.

Nice driving for sure! I'd love to drive Mid-Ohio some day.

On the first hot lap, it looked like that blue vette late braked almost every turn and was inches from going off! Especially at China Beach!
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      08-27-2022, 12:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
Excellent videos - your clean laps look very, very good!

Your camera may do a better job if it's placed in the windshield, where it doesn't have to manage the contrast between the interior and the outside. An added benefit is that you can then see precisely where your front tires are placed as you turn-in, apex, and exit each corner. That can help improve consistency, as videos can be more accurate than our memories.
Yeah, I was just using my phone to record off of a Tack Form mount attached to my headrest. On Saturday and Sunday it was overcast/rainy so none of my videos washed out and I didn't notice that was the case until I left the track on Monday. I thought it would be cool to see the quasi-roll bar perspective like on TV but the clear downside is that once I put the phone up there, I had zero clue if it was working (I DEFINITELY didn't miss the two Monday morning sessions because it failed to record)! Hopefully I can scrap some money (and spousal approval) for a GoPro and some kind of data logger (segue to second/third point).

Quote:
I'm curious about which tires you were running. Our cars can stay on the throttle longer in the faster sections, but not if their tires aren't able to handle the much higher forces in the subsequent braking zones.

Your car's rear end would sit up and wiggle going into China Beach. Do you think that was tires, the track surface in the braking section, both, or maybe something else? My car did the same thing when I was looking for tenths at 138 MPH, and I have to say I didn't enjoy it very much.
I am/was running Falken RT615k+'s this weekend (245/40/18 on all 4). You could probably notice some hesitation, especially in keyhole, cause I had a bit of PTSD from last year where I shredded - and I mean shredded - my Pilot Supersport sidewalls on an out lap where I pushed a bit too hard.

The limp noodle rear end into China Beach is TBD. The general consensus is that I'm simply braking too hard initially. Some instructors thought it might be a lack of rear aero (which made me happy because it gave legitimacy to "needing" an APR wing), but the majority thought I just needed to marginally slow the time its taking me to get to that threshold. That's why I'm so disappointed in what Track Addict was exporting (and why I want a logger that can pull brake pressure adequately) when I could get it to connect to my OBD (you can see in one of those videos that the brake trace is binary) - I have a feeling that if I could compare the brake pressure graphs on laps where it was stable into CB and where it wasn't, I'd see a trend.
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      08-27-2022, 12:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MassNerd View Post
If you are using a GoPro, before hitting record, you can press and hold on a section of the screen you want to set the exposure to. Press where your windshield is and this will prevent the washout look.

Nice driving for sure! I'd love to drive Mid-Ohio some day.

On the first hot lap, it looked like that blue vette late braked almost every turn and was inches from going off! Especially at China Beach!
I'll definitely keep that GoPro tip in mind should I need it next year. And yeah, that Vette caught me way off guard going so deep into T3. Same with the GT3RS that pulled like 30 degrees of slip angle going into T1 on Lap 6.
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      08-27-2022, 02:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
That's why I'm so disappointed in what Track Addict was exporting (and why I want a logger that can pull brake pressure adequately) when I could get it to connect to my OBD (you can see in one of those videos that the brake trace is binary) - I have a feeling that if I could compare the brake pressure graphs on laps where it was stable into CB and where it wasn't, I'd see a trend.
Unfortunately, our cars don't have actual brake pressure over OBD, it's only there if you tap directly on to the PT-CAN. So, you'd need a datalogger that can do that. (I spent a few months this season reverse-engineering the protocol, should do a writeup when things quiet down...)

Good driving!
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      08-27-2022, 10:54 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by msendit View Post
Unfortunately, our cars don't have actual brake pressure over OBD, it's only there if you tap directly on to the PT-CAN. So, you'd need a datalogger that can do that. (I spent a few months this season reverse-engineering the protocol, should do a writeup when things quiet down...)

Good driving!
Interesting, I'll definitely look out for that writeup should it ever come to fruition!
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      08-27-2022, 07:35 PM   #8
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I have an older GoPro, and setting the EV (exposure value) to '-2' forces the camera to adjust the exposure to darken everything. Your outside view is then correct. Unfortunately, if you are using TrackAddict for your camera, there doesn't appear to be any way adjust exposure in that app.

You could mount the phone/camera in the windshield. I posted some videos of Mid-Ohio a few weeks ago in the forum with my GoPro in the windshield. That will give you an idea of the perspective it offers.

I was originally planning on going to the BMW CCA event at Mid-Ohio this summer. Several people from Minnesota were going. But it was conflicting with some work stuff (that was since changed, twice), so I went with the Audi group in July instead. Too bad. It would have been fun to see more 2's there and see how we stacked up. I think you would have made a great rabbit for me to follow.

That 1:49 time is impressive. My best was a 1:53. I think I'm going to chalk up the difference to my skinny 225 tires, and completely stock N55 engine. (yeah, I'm sure that's it....)

One thing I've found that causes the 2 to get a bit squirelly in big brake zones is if your front tire pressures aren't equal left to right. Even 2 psi of difference can upset the car. It can be hard to get it balanced well, as the lefts tend to heat up more affecting pressure, and even sunlight on one side of the car can make a difference in the pits. It usually takes me a session or two to get them set right.

I was carrying about the same speed as you into CB, and once I got pressures dialed in it was a lot more stable than it was looking for you.
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      08-27-2022, 10:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ggggbmw View Post
I have an older GoPro, and setting the EV (exposure value) to '-2' forces the camera to adjust the exposure to darken everything. Your outside view is then correct. Unfortunately, if you are using TrackAddict for your camera, there doesn't appear to be any way adjust exposure in that app.
Yeah, TA is nice but kind of a nuisance to get everything how you want it. If I just run it through my phone again next year I might honestly just run my phone's (S22 Ultra) Pro Video so I can set the exposure lower. The only adjustments I can make in TA for my camera is the resolution.

Quote:
You could mount the phone/camera in the windshield. I posted some videos of Mid-Ohio a few weeks ago in the forum with my GoPro in the windshield. That will give you an idea of the perspective it offers.
Yeah I could - like I said, I was going a lot more for that roll cage-mounted look Looks a bit cooler when I show people and they can see me shift (like once per lap since almost the entire track can be done in 3rd).

Quote:
I was originally planning on going to the BMW CCA event at Mid-Ohio this summer. Several people from Minnesota were going. But it was conflicting with some work stuff (that was since changed, twice), so I went with the Audi group in July instead. Too bad. It would have been fun to see more 2's there and see how we stacked up. I think you would have made a great rabbit for me to follow.
Bummer, you'll have to make it out next year. I think they do a pretty solid job hosting (sample size = 2 CCA events, 1 Auto Interests); they at least take feedback well and seek to implement changes year over year. Re: the rabbit, I think that was the "worst" thing about being in the lowest run group -- not really anyone near my pace. Would have been awesome to have a similar car running with me.

Quote:
That 1:49 time is impressive. My best was a 1:53. I think I'm going to chalk up the difference to my skinny 225 tires, and completely stock N55 engine. (yeah, I'm sure that's it....)
Thank you! Definitely the N55 holding you back

Quote:
One thing I've found that causes the 2 to get a bit squirelly in big brake zones is if your front tire pressures aren't equal left to right. Even 2 psi of difference can upset the car. It can be hard to get it balanced well, as the lefts tend to heat up more affecting pressure, and even sunlight on one side of the car can make a difference in the pits. It usually takes me a session or two to get them set right.

I was carrying about the same speed as you into CB, and once I got pressures dialed in it was a lot more stable than it was looking for you.
Interesting, I don't think anyone has brought that up but it would make sense. I was pretty bad at remembering to check hot pressures immediately after coming off but from the times that I did check, they seemed to be within 1 psi on each axle. Just another reason to split a garage with someone next year I suppose, gotta keep the tires consistent!
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      08-28-2022, 12:00 PM   #10
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Yeah, TA is nice but kind of a nuisance to get everything how you want it.
I use TA also. I put up with its foibles because it's relatively cheap compared to the dedicated options, like an AIM Solo. I use an OBD dongle for car bits, and this year I upgraded to an external GPS, which really improved track fidelity. I keep the phone in my arm rest, in a bracket so it doesn't move, and plugged into the USB jack. I set it to 'start on motion', and it's out of sight, out of mind until I stop back in the pits. I don't want/need the distraction of live timing while on track. I operate the GoPro separately by just reaching up and hitting the start button.

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Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Re: the rabbit, I think that was the "worst" thing about being in the lowest run group -- not really anyone near my pace. Would have been awesome to have a similar car running with me.
I would think based on your video you could move up to 'Intermediate'. I like running with the Intermediate group because you don't have the beginners in your way. And you don't have the hotshots in the Porsche's (and sometimes real race cars) screaming up on you, like they do in Advanced. Having to always be planning your point by's is a little distracting also.

Downside of not running Advanced is that you usually don't get to do the Friday extra day if you want to. Working on my Instructor credential/certs so I can have the best of both worlds (extra day with sane drivers in sane cars), and to give back to the clubs.

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I was pretty bad at remembering to check hot pressures immediately after coming off but from the times that I did check, they seemed to be within 1 psi on each axle.
I have TPMS sensors on my track wheels/tires just for this reason. I keep the TPMS display up on the screen when on track, and I'll occasionally glance at it during quiet stretches. (Not many of those at Mid-Ohio!) I watch for the pressure imbalance, and I know that when the pressures get over ~37 psi, or temp gets over ~170F, the tires will not be at their peak. It's a nice confirmation of butt dyno feel on what the tires are doing. And I have a checklist taped to my dash to remind me to look at it when coming off track.

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      08-28-2022, 01:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jordan24c View Post
Interesting, I don't think anyone has brought that up but it would make sense. I was pretty bad at remembering to check hot pressures immediately after coming off but from the times that I did check, they seemed to be within 1 psi on each axle. Just another reason to split a garage with someone next year I suppose, gotta keep the tires consistent!
The China Beach braking zone can be less squirrelly depending upon the car's distance from the left-hand side of the track. I experimented a bit to find the line where my car was as stable there as it could be.
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      08-29-2022, 12:35 AM   #12
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I would think based on your video you could move up to 'Intermediate'. I like running with the Intermediate group because you don't have the beginners in your way.
That's the plan and the motivator behind it!

Quote:
Downside of not running Advanced is that you usually don't get to do the Friday extra day if you want to. Working on my Instructor credential/certs so I can have the best of both worlds (extra day with sane drivers in sane cars), and to give back to the clubs.
Yeah, BMW only does instructors/A Solo on Friday here. Best of luck on instructor training, its definitely something I'd love to do in a few years.

Quote:
I have TPMS sensors on my track wheels/tires just for this reason. I keep the TPMS display up on the screen when on track, and I'll occasionally glance at it during quiet stretches. (Not many of those at Mid-Ohio!) I watch for the pressure imbalance, and I know that when the pressures get over ~37 psi, or temp gets over ~170F, the tires will not be at their peak. It's a nice confirmation of butt dyno feel on what the tires are doing. And I have a checklist taped to my dash to remind me to look at it when coming off track.
Same here, TPMS actually prevented me from running my first Saturday session because I dropped the fronts too low and couldn't get iDrive to reset them. (Would come to a stop; go through the reset process in the paddock; have it immediately come back on; and then rinse and repeat). My instructor recommended turning off the screen as it was less distracting - I have to admit I wasn't distracted by it last year so I don't think it made any impact, but I'll probably keep it on next event. RE: that checklist, that's brilliant. I have a mental pre-session one I go through but never thought of doing one after (outside of just not using the brakes/parking brake when I turn off the car).
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      08-29-2022, 12:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
The China Beach braking zone can be less squirrelly depending upon the car's distance from the left-hand side of the track. I experimented a bit to find the line where my car was as stable there as it could be.
Good point - I think I could probably spare a foot or two of excess space without compromising turn in there. I'll have to rewatch all my onboards to see if any of my smoother entries had a different alignment to the grass. Certainly something to experiment with next year regardless (though pending how much this G87 starts out at, perhaps in a different car!).
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      08-29-2022, 04:19 PM   #14
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Good point - I think I could probably spare a foot or two of excess space without compromising turn in there.
It's likely in the last 100' or so before turn-in that you can move the car all the way left without upsetting it. You'll be under 100 mph there, and it should be relatively uneventful to shift the car over.

More 2¢ follows...

The goal there is to have the car totally settled at turn-in (wherever it is) while going as fast as you can successfully turn it while brake-steering (trail-braking) the car down to the apex. Not over-slowing the car is the key to getting the most out of that turn. Just like every other corner, right!

"Eyes-up" approaching CB means scanning up and back down once or twice between turn-in, the apex, track-out, and up the hill to Madness. Looking at the entire problem generally smooths-out the driver's inputs at the critical points, making for a safer as well as a faster lap.
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      08-29-2022, 08:21 PM   #15
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RE: that checklist, that's brilliant. I have a mental pre-session one I go through but never thought of doing one after (outside of just not using the brakes/parking brake when I turn off the car).
If you look at some of my older over the shoulder videos, you'll see a big piece of yellow gaffer tape between the screen and the vents, with these words on it:

Pressures, Mode, Camera, Timer, AC Off, Gloves

Pressures: bring up the tpms dislplay and check tire pressures before and immediately after coming off the track.

Mode: Don't forget to take it out of comfort mode!

Camera: Turn it on. Start it rolling.

Timer: Did I set TA to turn on with motion? Are the OBD and GPS synced?

AC Off: The windows are down. Turn the AC off.

Gloves: Put them on. Don't leave them in your lap.

Straps: Are your helmet and HANS straps tight? What about your harness?

I go through this list at least 3 times going out, and twice coming back. Some items mean different things depending where I am, or just a cursory touch to make sure. But I go through the whole list multiple times.

But every item is on this list because I forgot it more than once.
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