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      04-03-2024, 05:25 AM   #7525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
And there it is.

Quoted.
Yep, since they're being shot like fish in a barrel with facts, they'll make the thread politically nasty so the mods shut it down. They'll do that while claiming not to be political, yet painting one party with all the vile things that another party does with no repercussions.

Last edited by Weather Man; 04-03-2024 at 05:30 AM..
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      04-03-2024, 06:42 AM   #7526
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^

To be fair, some words that aren't exactly complimentary are being used.
While not attached to members directly, the connotations are there.

I've used grift a few times, which it is and grifters are littered in the movement. J Kerry I'm looking at you and your giant buffalo head.


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      04-03-2024, 07:56 AM   #7527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
^

To be fair, some words that aren't exactly complimentary are being used.
While not attached to members directly, the connotations are there.

I've used grift a few times, which it is and grifters are littered in the movement. J Kerry I'm looking at you and your giant buffalo head.


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John Kerry does have a massive Silas Marneresque head.
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      04-03-2024, 09:01 AM   #7528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
John Kerry does have a massive Silas Marneresque head.
More long than massive I would say
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      04-03-2024, 09:11 AM   #7529
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More long than massive I would say
Dolichocephalic. I love this word.
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      04-03-2024, 09:47 AM   #7530
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Close friends probably call him Basset.
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      04-03-2024, 09:53 AM   #7531
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This....
Attached Images
 
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      04-03-2024, 10:18 AM   #7532
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This....
Have a song to go with that, you want to hear it...
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      04-03-2024, 10:25 AM   #7533
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This....
Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
Ronald Reagan
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      04-03-2024, 10:31 AM   #7534
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NTSB says electric bus fire in Hamden was caused by battery damage
Mar 29, 2024
In a new report released on March 4, the safety agency said the probable cause was moisture in the high voltage lithium-ion battery system, which resulted in battery damage and subsequent fire.
The Connecticut Department of Transportation bus was unoccupied at the time it start smoking. It had been out of service for two days due to an error in the charging system, the NTSB report said.
At the time, officials said the fire was difficult to extinguish due to the thermal chemical process that produces great heat and continually reignites. Firemen had to use “copious” amounts of water to extinguish the flames, according to Assistant Fire Chief Jeffrey Naples in 2022.



Later that morning, the bus started showing smoke again and fire was seen coming from the rear of the bus. Fire crews returned and the incident commander made a decision to let the bus burn in the controlled environment.
For several hours, the bus was fully involved. The NTSB said it continued to smolder in the isolated parking lot, and two days later, fire crews responded again to apply water to the smoking battery compartment.
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      04-03-2024, 10:42 AM   #7535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
NTSB says electric bus fire in Hamden was caused by battery damage
Mar 29, 2024
In a new report released on March 4, the safety agency said the probable cause was moisture in the high voltage lithium-ion battery system, which resulted in battery damage and subsequent fire.
The Connecticut Department of Transportation bus was unoccupied at the time it start smoking. It had been out of service for two days due to an error in the charging system, the NTSB report said.
At the time, officials said the fire was difficult to extinguish due to the thermal chemical process that produces great heat and continually reignites. Firemen had to use “copious” amounts of water to extinguish the flames, according to Assistant Fire Chief Jeffrey Naples in 2022.



Later that morning, the bus started showing smoke again and fire was seen coming from the rear of the bus. Fire crews returned and the incident commander made a decision to let the bus burn in the controlled environment.
For several hours, the bus was fully involved. The NTSB said it continued to smolder in the isolated parking lot, and two days later, fire crews responded again to apply water to the smoking battery compartment.
Can they get 5 years out of an EV bus anywhere they use salt in the winter?
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      04-03-2024, 10:48 AM   #7536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
NTSB says electric bus fire in Hamden was caused by battery damage
Mar 29, 2024
In a new report released on March 4, the safety agency said the probable cause was moisture in the high voltage lithium-ion battery system, which resulted in battery damage and subsequent fire.
The Connecticut Department of Transportation bus was unoccupied at the time it start smoking. It had been out of service for two days due to an error in the charging system, the NTSB report said.
At the time, officials said the fire was difficult to extinguish due to the thermal chemical process that produces great heat and continually reignites. Firemen had to use “copious” amounts of water to extinguish the flames, according to Assistant Fire Chief Jeffrey Naples in 2022.




Later that morning, the bus started showing smoke again and fire was seen coming from the rear of the bus. Fire crews returned and the incident commander made a decision to let the bus burn in the controlled environment.
For several hours, the bus was fully involved. The NTSB said it continued to smolder in the isolated parking lot, and two days later, fire crews responded again to apply water to the smoking battery compartment.
A good nickname for the buses would be 'hot cookie'.
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      04-03-2024, 10:52 AM   #7537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Man View Post
Can they get 5 years out of an EV bus anywhere they use salt in the winter?
At $1.15 million for each bus, that ROI is going to make for some expensive bus passes.
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      04-03-2024, 11:01 AM   #7538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
NTSB says electric bus fire in Hamden was caused by battery damage
Mar 29, 2024
In a new report released on March 4, the safety agency said the probable cause was moisture in the high voltage lithium-ion battery system, which resulted in battery damage and subsequent fire.
The Connecticut Department of Transportation bus was unoccupied at the time it start smoking. It had been out of service for two days due to an error in the charging system, the NTSB report said.
At the time, officials said the fire was difficult to extinguish due to the thermal chemical process that produces great heat and continually reignites. Firemen had to use “copious” amounts of water to extinguish the flames, according to Assistant Fire Chief Jeffrey Naples in 2022.



Later that morning, the bus started showing smoke again and fire was seen coming from the rear of the bus. Fire crews returned and the incident commander made a decision to let the bus burn in the controlled environment.
For several hours, the bus was fully involved. The NTSB said it continued to smolder in the isolated parking lot, and two days later, fire crews responded again to apply water to the smoking battery compartment.
I don't think the anecdotal fire events for EV buses are meaningful. Aggregate data would help define whether there should be concern here for fire risk. Just as posting a link for an ICE bus fire would not have much bearing unless it was part of global data with risk assessment.
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      04-03-2024, 11:07 AM   #7539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
At $1.15 million for each bus, that ROI is going to make for some expensive bus passes.
Heck, or anywhere along the ocean. I used to buy motorcyles at big online auctions for the dealership I worked at. I found out fast that bikes coming out of FL were awful with salt corrosion.
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      04-03-2024, 11:30 AM   #7540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
I don't think the anecdotal fire events for EV buses are meaningful.
The only issue here is that the roll out of EV heavy vehicles is in it's infancy. The cost of these EV vehicles is almost 10 times that the non EV equivalent. Add to that the cost of maintenance and battery replacement and this is a stupid concept in a land of stupid. The environmental damage to build heavy EV batteries is astronomical and criminal.
In a sane world with a sane government I will always defend the existence of EV's but I will Never accept my tax dollars in pursuit of Electric heavy vehicles. This is the epitome of stupid.
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      04-03-2024, 12:13 PM   #7541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
The only issue here is that the roll out of EV heavy vehicles is in it's infancy. The cost of these EV vehicles is almost 10 times that the non EV equivalent. Add to that the cost of maintenance and battery replacement and this is a stupid concept in a land of stupid. The environmental damage to build heavy EV batteries is astronomical and criminal.
In a sane world with a sane government I will always defend the existence of EV's but I will Never accept my tax dollars in pursuit of Electric heavy vehicles. This is the epitome of stupid.
Electric bus adoption is a worldwide phenomenon and has been very active since 2017.

I found this article referencing the economics:

"Economic Considerations: Cost and Savings

While the initial upfront cost of electric buses remains a hurdle, a closer examination reveals a promising economic case for their adoption. While electric buses are currently priced higher than their fossil-fuelled counterparts, they offer long-term financial benefits that offset the initial investment.





Comparatively, a diesel transit bus comes with an average price tag of $500,000, while an electric bus costs around $750,000. Similarly, diesel school buses are priced at approximately $110,000, while electric school buses are valued at around $230,000. Despite the apparent cost disparity, the total cost of ownership over the vehicle's lifetime tells a different story.




The Economic Advantage of Electric buses

Over the course of its lifespan, an electric bus can lead to substantial savings. According to data from New Flyer, a prominent bus manufacturer, an electric bus could save $400,000 in fuel expenses and averted maintenance costs of $125,000. This is a result of their energy efficiency and reduced need for maintenance compared to traditional buses.



Proterra, another leading bus manufacturer, estimates that electric buses can yield annual fuel and maintenance savings of up to $50,000 when compared to fossil fuel-powered buses. Such savings could potentially lead to a payback period of around five years. These cost advantages stem from the simpler design of electric buses – they have fewer parts, no exhaust system, longer-lasting braking systems, and no need for oil changes."

https://venair.com/en/blog/articles/...onengine-buses

The cost of these buses does not appear to cost ten times that of an ICE bus. Astronomical and criminal costs seem difficult to quantify and would thus not be helpful in making policy decisions. It would be better to rely on things that could be quantified.

I, personally, am NOT an expert on economics so it will be interesting to look at the dispassionate reviews of the economics of EV buses by those with this skillset.
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      04-03-2024, 02:32 PM   #7542
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Quote:
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Police caught up with a stolen Tesla after it ran out of battery during a car chase
The Tesla belonged to Fox 11 anchor and reporter Susan Hirasuna, who told the outlet the car disappeared after she parked it near the United Theater in downtown Los Angeles.
Hirasuna said she discovered the Tesla had been stolen after she left a nearby concert on Thursday evening.
The stolen car was fortunately low on charge when it was taken, with Hirasuna's Tesla app estimating that the EV's battery was down to just 15 miles of range, the report said.
The Los Angeles Police Department had already attempted to stop the car after it was reported for reckless driving before she had even had a chance to file a report.
Despite considering halting the vehicle with a Precision Immobilization Technique (PIT) maneuver, where officers try and force a vehicle to turn 180 degrees, causing it to stall and stop, police instead decided to follow it until it ran out of power, the report said.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...4e2ec2a17&ei=6

So when all the police cars switch to EV's you just have to run around until they run out of juice.
Good news, the faster they run, the faster they run out of juice One good reason I will keep my M4 forever
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      04-03-2024, 02:41 PM   #7543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Man View Post
Cold one in Canada, husband afraid for wife, follows and stays with her while she charges. That was efficient. Is there a dumber car to own than an EV where it gets life threatening cold?
You need to hire bodyguards to protect you. No all public charging stations are safe from dusk to dawn when you have to spend hours there.
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      04-03-2024, 04:42 PM   #7544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
I don't think the anecdotal fire events for EV buses are meaningful. Aggregate data would help define whether there should be concern here for fire risk. Just as posting a link for an ICE bus fire would not have much bearing unless it was part of global data with risk assessment.
Anecdotal evidence is moar betterer for my purposes. Gimmie moar.
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      04-03-2024, 05:15 PM   #7545
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      04-03-2024, 06:48 PM   #7546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Electric bus adoption is a worldwide phenomenon and has been very active since 2017.
Several of the metro bus companies have filed for bankruptcy and many municipalities have had more that a few issues. I still think the numbers are still too small and the cost of maintenance in unknown as battery replacement costs are unknown and tire degradation is still a unknown so time will tell.

Austin's shift to electric buses is plagued by vehicle glitches and supplier bankruptcy
"The reliability of electric buses no matter the manufacturer is less than a diesel bus. I'm not going to tell you they operate as well as diesel bus," CapMetro chief operating officer Andrew Skabowski told KUT. "We're going to see some vehicles that are down a little bit longer than a diesel bus."
But other transit agencies single out Proterra's buses as being especially unreliable.
Attorneys representing Broward County, Florida say the first batch of Proterra's electric buses averaged 600 miles between failures. The second batch improved that average to 1,800 miles. But that was still far behind the county's aging fleet of diesel buses, which travel an average of 4,500 miles between failures.
Attorneys for the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority say the transit agency was forced to remove all 10 of its Proterra buses from service because they "continue to be plagued with problems." In one incident, a bus caught fire in a maintenance facility. Workers pushed the burning bus outside to prevent the building from catching fire. Some employees were treated for smoke inhalation.
The city of Edmonton, Canada said in a filing that at times more than half the buses are out of service for non-routine maintenance. The northern city claims it had to spend more than $1.3 million fixing the buses, including $206,000 for heated blankets to keep batteries warm so they maintain their range in the city's blistering cold winters.
https://www.kut.org/transportation/2...rra-bankruptcy

It looks like the cost for EV bus's is around 1.2 to 1.4 million with out charging equipment.
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