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      09-14-2021, 01:32 PM   #111
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I find it odd on the Article that BMWBlog just came out with that all future M Performance models will get quad exhaust tips. I know that the recent X3 M40i got the side mirrors from the X3M but if all M Performance models where to get the quad exhaust systems wouldn't it have made sense for the X3 M40i to get it first? Heck even the leaked G20 3 series doesn't have the quad exhaust tips on it. Unless someone in BMW is smoke screening what was reported to be the X1 M to avoid backlash even before the model has been revealed then for right now I don't believe that statement.

Also personally for me I like how the M Performance models just like mine had dual exhaust outlets rather then the quads from the M models. Quads should be a full fledge M and not an M performance version. What I could think of the reason as to why this one has quads is maybe BMW is making a M35i Competition variant with more HP and upgraded exhaust system compared to the M35i version but it just seem so odd.
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      09-14-2021, 01:44 PM   #112
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If it is a 'proper' M model I'd be interested to see what M do with it being a transverse FWD-based platform as I think this will be a first if I'm not mistaken.

Having driven an early FWD (a 2 series people carrier) model they do feel quite different to traditional RWD and it put me off ever going for a FWD model. Since then the 128ti has been getting glowing reviews.

Whilst I understand the tradition, I don't quite understand the level of complaints about diversification of M, it's not as if the core M models (M2, 3, 5 or 8) are changing platform. We've probably got another 8-10 years of ICE and I doubt BMW will make the next M5 FWD for example…
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      09-14-2021, 03:48 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
If it is a 'proper' M model I'd be interested to see what M do with it being a transverse FWD-based platform as I think this will be a first if I'm not mistaken.

Having driven an early FWD (a 2 series people carrier) model they do feel quite different to traditional RWD and it put me off ever going for a FWD model. Since then the 128ti has been getting glowing reviews.

Whilst I understand the tradition, I don't quite understand the level of complaints about diversification of M, it's not as if the core M models (M2, 3, 5 or 8) are changing platform. We've probably got another 8-10 years of ICE and I doubt BMW will make the next M5 FWD for example…
Many here are relieved to read it's only an M performance and not a real M.

On the other hand I also reckon that several AWD/front biased platforms (~60% of the weight upfront) score very well during the vehicle dynamics tests lately. I presume that's mainly because recently (much) more of the torque is fed earlier to the rear-axle (Golf R/A AMG/RS3) with smarter torque vectoring, whilst previous gens only could dispatch some torque to the rear when the front axles started to go berserk (cfr. haldex)?

Last edited by KoenG; 09-14-2021 at 03:56 PM..
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      09-14-2021, 07:46 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glazonyoursix View Post
Can SCOTT26 confirm this?
Scott is not an insider in any way shape or form. He pretends he is but he's been caught out in the past, and he's been caught out again. He's a fantasist. He's fooled people for a long time, but genuine insiders got sick of him trying to be something he's not.

This is not an X1M despite Scott claiming it is. There never was an X1M, so how he claims to be confirming it, and having "reached out" to someone, I don't know.

What Scott does is he makes posts which appear to be revealing info, but in fact it's all just vague statements which are just stating the obvious. The problem in this case is that it was logical to think a quad exhaust X1 would be an X1M, so he was bold and pretended he knew all about it. Unfortunately for him, it isn't an X1M, but instead the first M Performance vehicle to feature quad exhausts. He got too ambitious and he's tripped up.

It's a shame people have to pretend to be something they're not.
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      09-14-2021, 08:19 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glazonyoursix View Post
Can SCOTT26 confirm this?
Scott is not an insider in any way shape or form. He pretends he is but he's been caught out in the past, and he's been caught out again. He's a fantasist. He's fooled people for a long time, but genuine insiders got sick of him trying to be something he's not.

This is not an X1M despite Scott claiming it is. There never was an X1M, so how he claims to be confirming it, and having "reached out" to someone, I don't know.

What Scott does is he makes posts which appear to be revealing info, but in fact it's all just vague statements which are just stating the obvious. The problem in this case is that it was logical to think a quad exhaust X1 would be an X1M, so he was bold and pretended he knew all about it. Unfortunately for him, it isn't an X1M, but instead the first M Performance vehicle to feature quad exhausts. He got too ambitious and he's tripped up.

It's a shame people have to pretend to be something they're not.
Glad someone said it
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      09-14-2021, 10:39 PM   #116
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I was honestly excited for an X1M.... ah well.
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      09-15-2021, 02:04 AM   #117
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The irony of what? Isn't the X1M going to be all wheel drive?
Transversely mounted engine + front wheel based AWD is fundamentally different from longitudinally mounted engine + RWD based AWD. FWD based AWD is dynamically inferior to a true RWD based AWD unlike your 328xD.

Personally think it is something that has no place bearing M but looking at what they are doing these days with M cars I am not surprised.
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      09-15-2021, 05:16 AM   #118
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Lol ok. I wonder if the majority share your experience. I certainly enjoyed 2020 LCI X1. :
Nope,
I have mine for several years now and still enjoying it.

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      09-15-2021, 06:02 AM   #119
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I am also enjoying the X1. Its by no means as fun and agile as my 1-series, but compared to other X models and my old E60, I don't find it worse in any way in terms of handling.
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      09-15-2021, 07:30 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glazonyoursix View Post
Can SCOTT26 confirm this?
Scott is not an insider in any way shape or form. He pretends he is but he's been caught out in the past, and he's been caught out again. He's a fantasist. He's fooled people for a long time, but genuine insiders got sick of him trying to be something he's not.

This is not an X1M despite Scott claiming it is. There never was an X1M, so how he claims to be confirming it, and having "reached out" to someone, I don't know.

What Scott does is he makes posts which appear to be revealing info, but in fact it's all just vague statements which are just stating the obvious. The problem in this case is that it was logical to think a quad exhaust X1 would be an X1M, so he was bold and pretended he knew all about it. Unfortunately for him, it isn't an X1M, but instead the first M Performance vehicle to feature quad exhausts. He got too ambitious and he's tripped up.

It's a shame people have to pretend to be something they're not.
Thank you for the explanation!!
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      09-15-2021, 08:41 AM   #121
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
let's not start with this "blasphemous" nonsense. GLA/GLB AMG are on FWD-based platforms and so is RS Q3. Many good reasons for making smaller vehicles FWD-biased.
Blasphemous for an M division product to go the FWD route.

Just because other automakers want to sell out their performance divisions doesn't make it alright for BMW to do so. I'm not here to cheerlead for CEOs to make higher profits, I'm a car enthusiast, I could care less what makes sense for the company's balance sheets.
Than apparently you can care less whether the M division continues to exist, because newsflash - companies have to be profitable to continue to exist. A lot of you seem to be averse to progress. Who cares if the M division didn't make a FWD car before? You people LITERALLY expect the status quo to be maintained or out come the pitchforks.
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      09-15-2021, 10:17 AM   #122
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Than apparently you can care less whether the M division continues to exist, because newsflash - companies have to be profitable to continue to exist. A lot of you seem to be averse to progress. Who cares if the M division didn't make a FWD car before? You people LITERALLY expect the status quo to be maintained or out come the pitchforks.
LOL, M division isn't going to cease to exist by not producing an X1M. Give me a break.
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      09-15-2021, 10:19 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Than apparently you can care less whether the M division continues to exist, because newsflash - companies have to be profitable to continue to exist. A lot of you seem to be averse to progress. Who cares if the M division didn't make a FWD car before? You people LITERALLY expect the status quo to be maintained or out come the pitchforks.
LOL, M division isn't going to cease to exist by not producing an X1M. Give me a break.
The M division will however cease to exist if BMW doesn't continue to give customers what they demand and only appeal to "purists". Lemme guess, you also frown upon "M Performance" BMWs as they are not "real" M cars correct?
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      09-15-2021, 10:23 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
The M division will however cease to exist if BMW doesn't continue to give customers what they demand and only appeal to "purists". Lemme guess, you also frown upon "M Performance" BMWs as they are not "real" M cars correct?
They are not "real" M cars, they are called "M performance" by BMW for a reason.

Let me guess, you're all in favor of the X8M aren't you?

The M division produces enough models for the badge chasing crowd. Clearly they agree since it seems the rumored photos are of an M performance model not X1M.
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      09-15-2021, 10:33 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
The M division will however cease to exist if BMW doesn't continue to give customers what they demand and only appeal to "purists". Lemme guess, you also frown upon "M Performance" BMWs as they are not "real" M cars correct?
They are not "real" M cars, they are called "M performance" by BMW for a reason.

Let me guess, you're all in favor of the X8M aren't you?

The M division produces enough models for the badge chasing crowd. Clearly they agree since it seems the rumored photos are of an M performance model not X1M.
Sorry BMW is hurting your precious ego by producing models that the "badge chasers" can buy. If only everyone was as special as you they could get a "real" M. I hate to break it to you, but the intent of the M division was not Motorsports in the first place. Unless you are going to tell me you use your M car to compete professionally in Motorsports? Lets be real about it, you are a "badge chaser" just like everyone else, portending to be special because you drive a "real" M. Hate to break it to you, but almost anyone on these forums can buy an M car. My X5 brand new cost more than a new M3, so who really cares. People buy the M Performance over an M because in some ways it performs BETTER (e.g. balancing comfort with performance). Again, none of us are buying these cars for competition. And yes I am in favor of M SUVs because I'm intelligent enough to realize that the M moniker is COMPLETELY arbitrary. What constitutes an M? How much horsepower? How fast around the Nurburgring? You can't tell me. Wanna know why? Because its all relative. As long as whatever M product is produced outperforms its competition, then its a true M.
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      09-15-2021, 10:44 AM   #126
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The biggest badge chasers are the people buying "real" M cars without actually driving them on track That's a 100% show off. Which is quite a big percentage of the M-owners to be fair.

Sticking to the topic - I don't see a point in the X1M, as I don't see a point in every M car, apart from M2, M3/4 and M8 maybe. M35i is more than enough.
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      09-15-2021, 10:51 AM   #127
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I hate to break it to you, but the intent of the M division was not Motorsports in the first place.
The first M car, the M1 was literally designed to win races and represent BMW in Motorsports. And the Original M3 (E30) was designed to beat Mercedes and their 190E in the DTM Championship, might wanna read up on your history. Just because things have changed now doesn't mean the past changed with it.
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      09-15-2021, 10:54 AM   #128
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
I hate to break it to you, but the intent of the M division was not Motorsports in the first place.
The first M car, the M1 was literally designed to win races and represent BMW in Motorsports. And the Original M3 (E30) was designed to beat Mercedes and their 190E in the DTM Championship, might wanna read up on your history. Just because things have changed now doesn't mean the past changed with it.
Lmao. You do realize that stock M cars are NOT designed to win Motorsports races correct? Those M cars are highly modified (e.g. roll bars, removal of seats etc) for competition. So I think it's you that needs to educate himself. How many people you know that compete professionally with their stock M cars? I'll wait.
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      09-15-2021, 10:55 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Lets be real about it, you are a "badge chaser" just like everyone else, portending to be special because you drive a "real" M.
People have what you perceive to be a "snobby" attitude to any M cars that don't have the classic M attributes such as RWD only, and manual gearboxes because of years of being told by BMW themselves that these aspects are what make a "proper" M car. It was a key point in their marketing. Now BMW are chasing every last Dollar/Euro/Pound, nothing is off the table if it helps shift a few extra units. Once the first X5 M was launched and we had a 4WD, auto gearbox, SUV, they lost all credibility.
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      09-15-2021, 10:59 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofomat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Lets be real about it, you are a "badge chaser" just like everyone else, portending to be special because you drive a "real" M.
People have what you perceive to be a "snobby" attitude to any M cars that don't have the classic M attributes such as RWD only, and manual gearboxes because of years of being told by BMW themselves that these aspects are what make a "proper" M car. It was a key point in their marketing. Now BMW are chasing every last Dollar/Euro/Pound, nothing is off the table if it helps shift a few extra units. Once the first X5 M was launched and we had a 4WD, auto gearbox, SUV, they lost all credibility.
And your point? You do realize technology and standards changes over time no? You are referencing an era where consumer electric cars weren't even invented and now we have electric cars that can go 0-60 in under 2 seconds. You people point to heritage as if its something that is defined in one moment of time and then is static. Heritage evolves in the same way technology does.
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      09-15-2021, 11:13 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Lmao. You do realize that stock M cars are NOT designed to win Motorsports races correct? Those M cars are highly modified (e.g. roll bars, removal of seats etc) for competition. So I think it's you that needs to educate himself. How many people you know that compete professionally with their stock M cars? I'll wait.
You are completely oblivious if you do not understand that M cars were derived from Motorsport. That's literally what the damn M stands for.

The only reason the stock M cars exist is due to Motorsport, and M's main goal was to win races and represent themselves in motorsport. Like I said, the originally M3 was literally made in order to beat Mercedes who was the king in DTM and setting records that BMW was jealous of. However in order to do that there are numerous regulations set in place. In order for the racing variants to be eligible for competition and have a chance at winning at all, a certain number of roadgoing (stock) vehicles are required to be produced and sold as available to the public based on the racing variant. The stock M cars were derived from the racing cars.

For example, the BMW M1 fell under Group 4 homologation regulations, requiring a set of 400+ production models (based on the race car) to be built before the racing variant could compete.

Straight from the source themselves:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M
Right from the start, the M1 was an ambitious project as it was the first vehicle designed by BMW Motorsport GmbH. Originally, the plan was to use the race car in the German Racing Championship. Due to its long and complicated development time and a change to regulations, the BMW M1 finally appeared in the specially-created Procar series and other competitions. A total of 460 BMW M1s were developed based on homologation specifications according to Group 4 regulations for the road and race track. Each model was handmade.
It doesn't matter how many people ended up tracking the cars or not, the history of M literally started with Motorsport.
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      09-15-2021, 11:18 AM   #132
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Lmao. You do realize that stock M cars are NOT designed to win Motorsports races correct? Those M cars are highly modified (e.g. roll bars, removal of seats etc) for competition. So I think it's you that needs to educate himself. How many people you know that compete professionally with their stock M cars? I'll wait.
You are completely oblivious if you do not understand that M cars were derived from Motorsport. That's literally what the damn M stands for.

The only reason the stock M cars exist is due to Motorsport, and M's main goal was to win races, however in order to do that there are numerous regulations set in place. In order for the racing variants to be eligible for competition and have a chance at winning at all, a certain number of roadgoing (stock) vehicles are required to be produced and sold as available to the public based on the racing variant. The stock M cars were derived from the racing cars.

For example, the BMW M1 fell under Group 4 homologation regulations, requiring a set of 400+ production models (based on the race car) to be built before the racing variant could compete.

Straight from the source themselves:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M
Right from the start, the M1 was an ambitious project as it was the first vehicle designed by BMW Motorsport GmbH. Originally, the plan was to use the race car in the German Racing Championship. Due to its long and complicated development time and a change to regulations, the BMW M1 finally appeared in the specially-created Procar series and other competitions. A total of 460 BMW M1s were developed based on homologation specifications according to Group 4 regulations for the road and race track. Each model was handmade.
It doesn't matter how many people ended up tracking the cars or not, the history of M literally started with Motorsport.
Buddy, I'm fully aware that the M division originated in Motorsports. The reality though is that it is YOU who are oblivious. Let me put it real simple for you to understand - if the BMW M division was 100% faithful to their heritage, there would be no consumer M cars at all. Therefore ANY street, non-motorsport compliant M car is a violation of the original BMW M division intent. The fact they made a limited 400 models is irrelevant as that doesn't constitute mass consumer production. THEREFORE, going back to the original argument made, the X1M cannot violate the original heritage, because said heritage was altered the moment the division put out an M street car model. So all these M models you guys wax poetic about are technically an abomination in the eyes of "true" M purists who (if they are upholding then original intent) would advocate that no consumer M cars should ever have been made. Get it now?
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