[msendit]

Is it just me, or no one makes CF sunroof blanks for the F22? Or for any F-series cars for that matter.

Plenty of options out there for anything between E30-E92 (example, example), but I can't see anything for the newer cars. And the F-series is already ~10 years old.

I can't be the only one regretting the 80 lbs cassette monstrosity?

[liebetrau88]

Pretty sure the roof for the F22 and F87 is exactly the same.

https://ind-distribution.com/product...ber-roof-panel

But I could be wrong, worth looking into though.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by liebetrau88

Pretty sure the roof for the F22 and F87 is exactly the same.

Yes, they are. But I'm not looking for a full CF roof, just the blank that fills the hole once you take the sunroof cassette out. Couple of reasons:
- they're usually 1/3 the price or so of a full CF roof;
- the bulk of the weight saved comes from removing the cassette; the steel -> CF for the rest of the roof is maybe another 10 lbs or so;
- installing a full roof is more of a pain; on the older cars at least putting on a blank is just: add sealant and bolt up.

[liebetrau88]

Short of a custom piece, no one makes just that piece unfortunately.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by msendit

Is it just me, or no one makes CF sunroof blanks for the F22?

capt_and reports in this for sale post of his that he had an RKP CF roof installed on his car: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1607481.

BTW, any forum members wishing to get serious about creating a track car out of an F22 would be well advised to consider selling the car they already have and buying capt_and's car instead. Feel free to PM me for specifics as to why that is.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by dradernh

capt_and reports in this for sale post of his that he had an RKP CF roof installed on his car: https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1607481.

Yup, I know a few others who have too. That's still the full roof though.
The $ / lbs saved tradeoff is very different though:
- full roof (from sunroof delete): $3,000 / 10 lbs
- just a blank (from sunroof): $500 / 80 lbs (DIY)

My car is definitely not at the stage where thousands of dollars to drop 10 lbs makes sense. Heck, getting rid of the AC is free and saves 4x as much.

Originally Posted by dradernh

BTW, any forum members wishing to get serious about creating a track car out of an F22 would be well advised to consider selling the car they already have and buying capt_and's car instead. Feel free to PM me for specifics as to why that is.

Believe me, I know! But where's the fun in that

[dradernh]

This thread is going too fast for me!

So here's what you'll likely end up doing: remove the cassette and fill the hole with a custom-cut piece of...whatever. It doesn't need to be CF to achieve your purpose – fiberglass will do just as well. The blank will be fixed in place and sealed with whatever sealant is in use today.

This was a common solution for E36 and E46 owners, although (IIRC) the pieces were off-the-shelf items. My E36 was a Lightweight, so the whole sunroof thing was never an issue.

Originally Posted by msendit

Believe me, I know! But where's the fun in that

You're going to end up in a P-car – you know that, right? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by dradernh

This was a common solution for E36 and E46 owners, although (IIRC) the pieces were off-the-shelf items.

Exactly! That's why I'm surprised there's no off-the-shelf bit. Our cars are niche, but not even for an F30? Eeek.

I trust my wrenching skills enough to seal and fix a ready-made piece, but definitely not enough to lay fiberglass with at least vaguely the correct curvature... Oh well...

Originally Posted by dradernh

You're going to end up in a P-car – you know that, right?

My M240i(R?) is more than a handful for now, thanks. Exploding tires and all.

[dradernh]

Seriously, if you see yourself continuing down this road, I have two pieces of very hard-won advice:

1) Switch to a more appropriate platform; and,

2) Hire a professional race car driver to coach you. (Mind you, there are a number of amateur racers offering their services, and they are not who you wish to retain.)

I made these choices early on and benefited from them mightily. That's not to say I didn't spend well into six figures on this hobby. It's just that I spent less than I otherwise would have, and, more importantly, the instruction from people who had proven themselves where the rubber meets the road was invaluable.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Seriously, if you see yourself continuing down this road, I have two pieces of very hard-won advice:

1) Switch to a more appropriate platform; and,

2) Hire a professional race car driver to coach you. (Mind you, there are a number of amateur racers offering their services, and they are not who you wish to retain.)

I made these choices early on and benefited from them mightily. That's not to say I didn't spend well into six figures on this hobby. It's just that I spent less than I otherwise would have, and, more importantly, the instruction from people who had proven themselves where the rubber meets the road was invaluable.

I hear you loud and clear. My "proper racecar" is a '92 MR2. It's ~2500 lbs and mid-engine -- a heap of fun and by far not as much of a money pit as the F22. Mid-engine teaches you good manners too.

I'm irrationally attached to the F22 too though -- it's the car that first introduced me to the track -- and at this point it's enough down the rabbit hole. I keep it for fun HPDE / TT with friends, not for actual racing.

Dully noted about instruction. I've gotten occasional coaching sessions with pros, but nothing like a sustained relationship.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by msendit

Dully noted about instruction. I've gotten occasional coaching sessions with pros, but nothing like a sustained relationship.

I believe a sustained relationship is an extremely important factor in getting the most out of professional coaching. Under the circumstances, there must be a meeting of the minds.

Anecdotally, I've heard not so attractive things about very successful pro racers when it comes to their attitude towards their clients. In my case, the ones I've hired (and I used only one for 90% of it) all had a very clear sense of what their job was.

Along these lines, I found car-control events and schools to be incredibly valuable. By far the most valuable was a four-day course at the Team O'Neil Rally School. I credit that school, and its very impressive instructors, for my saving a full-on tank-slapper at Watkins Glen's T6 – which is the favorite place for both amateurs and pros alike to total their cars.

[msendit]

Good to know. But my immediate problem is I'm bored at home and pulling off the sunroof of the M240 in my garage sounds like a fun way to pass the time

I'll ask some body / race shops around, in case anyone has a secret plug for the hole...

[capt_and]

Stop building the M240i, buy an E36/E46/Miata race car and enjoy. The list of reasons why is too long. All of the reasons circle back to $$$$$. If you must build, buy one of the cars listed above and build one of those.

I finally sold my car and took an absolute bath on it. Was it faster than a 991.1 GT3? Yes. But I should've bought the GT3, would've lost less money upon resale.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by capt_and

Stop building the M240i, buy an E36/E46/Miata race car and enjoy.

Sigh. I understand that. I have a Miata-class racecar that I enjoy and race it in endurance events. I'm also absurdly obsessive and go to the track quite literally every other weekend (of course, current COVID situation excluded).

But ... I also enjoy the M240 as my "fast" car... For the weekends when the MR2 is in the shop. Or just when I want faster times -- it's a couple of seconds faster than a SpecE46 (but slower than a properly built racecar in ST4).

I'm not particularly worried about resale value -- it's my view that with this hobby you have to be ready to walk out of a steaming wreck of metal. It's a very different (and liberating) mindset than treating a track car as an "investment" -- which absolutely never works out.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by msendit

Sigh. I understand that. I have a Miata-class racecar that I enjoy and race it in endurance events. I'm also absurdly obsessive and go to the track quite literally every other weekend (of course, current COVID situation excluded).

But ... I also enjoy the M240 as my "fast" car... For the weekends when the MR2 is in the shop. Or just when I want faster times -- it's a couple of seconds faster than a SpecE46 (but slower than a properly built racecar in ST4).

I'm not particularly worried about resale value -- it's my view that with this hobby you have to ready to walk out of a steaming wreck of metal. It's a very different (and liberating) mindset than treating a track car as an "investment" -- which absolutely never works out.

Buying the actual m235iR or m240iR would've been cheaper than my build as well. Of course I was ready to write off every car I take on track. But I spent GT3 money to build a car that was slightly faster than a GT3 but had the resale value retention of a 7 series. I won't convince you not to do it, nobody will. Just like how nobody could talk me out of it. So to answer your original question, the sunroof delete panel didn't exist when I built my car.

[msendit]

To answer my own question too: I asked a few of the bigger composites shops that make the E36/E46 blanks and they don't have anything for F-series cars. Nor were they interested in developing something in the near future.

[K8_M235i]

Have you thought about trying to cross reference sunroof dimensions for 335s/ 135s?

Knowing bmw they probably didn't change them much. If you got your hands on a fiberglass one you could always trim and fill as needed.


I like my e36 because I was able to use the stock metal insert taken out of the cassette. Its just welded up there using cage gussets and windshield adhesive to stop leaks.

[msendit]

Originally Posted by K8_M235i

Have you thought about trying to cross reference sunroof dimensions for 335s/ 135s?

Good idea, let me ask around for 1er dimensions.

[Maynard]

^^^This was also my thinking - they probably use interchangeable pieces as much as possible. Another option is to see if you can get a salvage cutoff roof panel and trim a section. I knew somebody who did this on an old Camaro, but there were a lot more donors for that (those of us who survived the 70's still cringe at 'sunroof' meaning a hacked in aftermarket POS - they even leaked on a sunny day).

[Tsauce12]

Would love to see this if you pull the trigger!

[msendit]

Originally Posted by msendit

Good idea, let me ask around for 1er dimensions.

To circle back, I couldn't get 1er dimensions. But my Very Scientific Research (aka looking at pictures online) showed the E82 panel seems a fair bit more square. On our cars, it's more of a trapezoid shape -- the front is ~1 cm narrower. Probably could be filled appropriately, but might be a bit too much for what I'm comfortable doing..

I then asked around what a local composites shop would charge for a custom fill panel, ran away screaming, and decided to just get a full roof.

[Maynard]

I think they sell DIY kits for CF - with something this basic, you might want to give it a try. Or perhaps grafting in steel from a salvage slicktop or s/t with a similar roof curve.