[228Powered]

Originally Posted by Viffermike;18977278[B

]Yep. There's a reason "underpowered" Miatas, along with second-gen RX-7s, Minis, etc. are frequently preferred over much more powerful cars in the same classes in SCCA events: Balance, weight, and feel frequently trump power on road circuits.[/B]

Back in the day, the sportbike I chose to track wasn't a literbike of any configuration (though part of that time I owned an Aprilia literbike for the street): it was a Suzuki SV650 -- torquey, light, and supremely balanced and behaved with the right suspension mods. At two of the three tracks I rode on regularly, I frequently outpaced bigger, faster hardware because of how 'flickable' the bike was -- and that's pretty much all about weight, balance, and suspension tuning. Granted: skill isn't factored in too much (I was average at best, and weighed 225 lbs without gear), but still ...

Very true. Speaking of a miata, check out this video. Driver skill will always be the most important mod you can have. This guy is passing GT3 RS's at the Nürburgring, with a lightly modded 3rd generation miata. Of course, he's a pro.

I also have a 228 with track package. I've only tracked it once (just to see what it was capable of), and I easily passed two E92 M3's in the intermediate group (they obviously didn't know how to drive). And this was at Sebring, which is a high horsepower track. I would have loved to see the M3 drivers faces when they reviewed their footage and noticed that one of the cheapest BMW's sold today, passed them quite easily.

yes, its a very capable and fun car. I would say that it's as fun as my E92 M3 on track. The balance is almost perfect and the car gives you so much confidence.

But let me be honest, at Sebring my lap times were nowhere near as close as my E92 M3 lap times. I was most probably cornering just as fast (or faster) in the 228, but the lack of horsepower is impossible to make up.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Thanks, I'll look into that! The whole steering setup in the 2 series is just awful for track and autocross use.

another OEM upgrade could be to check if your car has M235i -0.5 deg swivel bearings as std [put your VIN number into realoem]. Part #'s are L&R
31216853651 & 31216853652

Combination of M4 LCA's and M235i swivel bearings help sharpen up the helm.

[DarkstarZero]

Update: I took the 228 out for a day at Summit Point - Jefferson Circuit and reconfirmed all of the above.



The Jefferson is a 1.7 mile track with 3 straights. This time the BMW M Laptimer app was able to get a GPS lock and record accurate data. My average lap time (while passing other cars on the track) was 1:27. The 228 is still bone stock, with factory summer tires, though it does have the most conservative GSR tune. I was driving in DSC OFF mode.

Again, the 228 passed everything on the track that was stock. But that could be the drivers so to get a good idea of it's capabilities, I matched the car up with a modified e92 M3, running a BBK and R comps. The driver was another well experienced instructor.

Within the first few laps I would have been able to pass him but that's because he had to wait for his R comps to warm up while my street tires warm up halfway through lap 1. I stayed behind and waited. Lap 3, his R comps are warm and he's starting to push it as his rear view mirror is still full of 228. Lap 4, he's pushing the M3 to 100%, pulling away from me in the straights but I catch him in the twisties, I'm pushing the 228 to 105% as managing understeer and oversteer in this light weight and perfectly balanced car is really easy. Lap 5, my street tires are getting too hot and are not giving me as much grip, he pulls away by about 0.5 seconds. Lap 6, his lead gains another 0.5 seconds and lap times are getting consistent. Lap 7, an e46 M3 blew an engine, standing black flag.

I get back to the paddock and comments from those watching are, "Man you were moving, is that a M235?" "Nope, 228 with the little 2 liter." They look confused.

Throughout the day I was able to reconfirm that weight and balance make a MASSIVE difference on the track and that the difference between ~250hp and ~400hp is negligible on your average race track. Sure, it'll make a difference if you're running VIR full course with the mile long straight-away but even that's rare. Usually you're on either the North loop or South loop. I believe if the 228 were on R comps it would have been unstoppable

I hope this information is helpful to some.







I was trying to find lap times to compare to. On YouTube I found a Porsche GT3 that was running 1:27 lap times as well, that's the best I could find.

[EEBreh]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Update: I took the 228 out for a day at Summit Point - Jefferson Circuit and reconfirmed all of the above.



The Jefferson is a 1.7 mile track with 3 straights. This time the BMW M Laptimer app was able to get a GPS lock and record accurate data. My average lap time (while passing other cars on the track) was 1:27. The 228 is still bone stock, with factory summer tires, though it does have the most conservative GSR tune. I was driving in DSC OFF mode.

Again, the 228 passed everything on the track that was stock. But that could be the drivers so to get a good idea of it's capabilities, I matched the car up with a modified e92 M3, running a BBK and R comps. The driver was another well experienced instructor.

Within the first few laps I would have been able to pass him but that's because he had to wait for his R comps to warm up while my street tires warm up halfway through lap 1. I stayed behind and waited. Lap 3, his R comps are warm and he's starting to push it as his rear view mirror is still full of 228. Lap 4, he's pushing the M3 to 100%, pulling away from me in the straights but I catch him in the twisties, I'm pushing the 228 to 105% as managing understeer and oversteer in this light weight and perfectly balanced car is really easy. Lap 5, my street tires are getting too hot and are not giving me as much grip, he pulls away by about 0.5 seconds. Lap 6, his lead gains another 0.5 seconds and lap times are getting consistent. Lap 7, an e46 M3 blew an engine, standing black flag.

I get back to the paddock and comments from those watching are, "Man you were moving, is that a M235?" "Nope, 228 with the little 2 liter." They look confused.

Throughout the day I was able to reconfirm that weight and balance make a MASSIVE difference on the track and that the difference between ~250hp and ~400hp is negligible on your average race track. Sure, it'll make a difference if you're running VIR full course with the mile long straight-away but even that's rare. Usually you're on either the North loop or South loop. I believe if the 228 were on R comps it would have been unstoppable

I hope this information is helpful to some.







I was trying to find lap times to compare to. On YouTube I found a Porsche GT3 that was running 1:27 lap times as well, that's the best I could find.

Just curious how you would do in a stock (non premium non sunroof) m235i for comparison. I know how you feel - 944 turbo guys feel the same when they are passing some of the 911 guys on the track

[caycep]

So, when are you going to test the M2?

[DarkstarZero]

Originally Posted by caycep

So, when are you going to test the M2?

I'm going to test drive one this month, but only on the street. I'd love to be able to track test one and write up a review but I don't have that kind of relationship with BMW

[ralawren]

M Sport Brakes on my THP 228i were very impressive on the VIR Full Course. I just ran VIR in the intermediate group and really liked the brakes. I wasn't doing full race stops, but was pulling .6-.7Gs at the end of the two main straights and never felt any brake fade at all. Maybe if I was up in the 1.0G range it would be different but I never had any fade and felt very under control.

Of course as the OP stated, this was VIR with long straights and sweepers and my 240 HP 4 banger was sorely outmatched by all the V8 M3s, Corvettes and Camaros!

[DarkstarZero]

Coming mid July I'll have the 228 on Summit Point Main. There should be a M2 there so I'll try to get some back-to-back stats using the M Laptimer App. My guess is that the M2 will be faster by half a second to a full second.

That's a difference that I can attempt to make up with skill and bravery.

[caycep]

The musing/question I have is whether the THP computer assisted rack is better or worse in the "steering feel" department than the stock non-THP rack?

[Kolyan2k]

The steering, front end, and exhaust notes are disappointing on this car.....it's ridiculous BMW done it this way.

I want more feedback and sound for sure.

[SC228]

I recently ran my 228i at Atlanta Motorsports Park, which is more of a tight, technical track - no long straights like at RA or Roebling.
Mine came with 6MT, THP, no sunroof, no premium pckg, manual seats. Found it at local BMW dealer lot with reasonable discount - maybe someone ordered and backed out.
Anyway, I basically had the track to myself during open member sessions mixed in with the member spec Miata race.
First time on the track in this car, and I needed to drive it home, so I didn't push the limit. Nonetheless, I was very impressed. Great balance, turn-in, grip on PSS is fantastic, no brake fade. Definitely some turbo lag on 2-3 upshift (probably eliminated with 8AT). I ran it on sport mode, of course - I thought the steering, while certainly lighter and less communicative than my spec Miata or e36 M3 track car, was just fine. Car leans a bit in turns and might benefit from stiffer springs if it was more of a dedicated DE/track car (mine is not).
The one aspect that impressed me more than I would have thought is the awesome torque made by this little 4! Almost can drive it like an automatic in 3rd through turns that I otherwise would go to 2nd.
As far as the m235i/M2/228i R&T comparo, I don't think I have any doubt I'd take the M2. But for the money and for what it is, especially spec'd lightly and with 6MT+THP, I'm very happy with it.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by SC228

I recently ran my 228i at Atlanta Motorsports Park, which is more of a tight, technical track - no long straights like at RA or Roebling.
Mine came with 6MT, THP, no sunroof, no premium pckg, manual seats. Found it at local BMW dealer lot with reasonable discount - maybe someone ordered and backed out.
Anyway, I basically had the track to myself during open member sessions mixed in with the member spec Miata race.
First time on the track in this car, and I needed to drive it home, so I didn't push the limit. Nonetheless, I was very impressed. Great balance, turn-in, grip on PSS is fantastic, no brake fade. Definitely some turbo lag on 2-3 upshift (probably eliminated with 8AT). I ran it on sport mode, of course - I thought the steering, while certainly lighter and less communicative than my spec Miata or e36 M3 track car, was just fine. Car leans a bit in turns and might benefit from stiffer springs if it was more of a dedicated DE/track car (mine is not).
The one aspect that impressed me more than I would have thought is the awesome torque made by this little 4! Almost can drive it like an automatic in 3rd through turns that I otherwise would go to 2nd.
As far as the m235i/M2/228i R&T comparo, I don't think I have any doubt I'd take the M2. But for the money and for what it is, especially spec'd lightly and with 6MT+THP, I'm very happy with it.

Yes, it is a really capable car and you can use almost every ounce of its capability on the street or the track. Performance springs are definitely a good idea.

[i8ur911]

I have a bare bones 15 228i Msport/THP car TNT is tracked regularly. I'm beyond happywith the car.

It's fairly modified, but had no problem hanging with much more expensive cars. In fact, I have a lot of people chatting me up in the paddock asking me about my "M235". Once I tell them it's a 228i the conversation takes on a whole new meaning....in a good way.

Lots of instructors have been blown away with the car as well. All in all, the 228i (when set up for track) is a potent "track rat".

[Kolyan2k]

**** Removed. Don't want to argue, plus I am not a track pro

[SC228]

Originally Posted by i8ur911

I have a bare bones 15 228i Msport/THP car TNT is tracked regularly. I'm beyond happywith the car.

It's fairly modified, but had no problem hanging with much more expensive cars. In fact, I have a lot of people chatting me up in the paddock asking me about my "M235". Once I tell them it's a 228i the conversation takes on a whole new meaning....in a good way.

Lots of instructors have been blown away with the car as well. All in all, the 228i (when set up for track) is a potent "track rat".

What modifications have you done to it for track use? Anything for cooling?

[i8ur911]

Originally Posted by SC228

What modifications have you done to it for track use? Anything for cooling?

Right now the car has a Bilstein Clubsport coilover, H&R sway bars, F8x LCA's, 18x8.5 square wheels/tires, a Wagner catted DP, M performance exhaust and a custom tune.

I've yet to do anything cooling wise and haven't had the need to yet......haven't gone higher than 235* on track. I've considered a Wagner FMIC, but again, don't think it's necessary at this moment.

[DarkstarZero]

Originally Posted by SC228

What modifications have you done to it for track use? Anything for cooling?

A 228 with MSport and THP has auxiliary radiators where the fog lights would go, so it already has added cooling for track conditions, straight from the factory.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by DarkstarZero

Thanks!

Is it beneficial to have ZTR (Track Package) for DD? Hmm... That's a tough one.

In my daily commute I usually have everything in standard comfort mode for most of the time. When I go to lunch and take my coworkers with me, it's in comfort mode. Some highway, some stop and go, ect. boring. But then when there's corners, say on ramps and off ramps, stop lights with 90 deg turns, in the rain, ect. DSC goes off, sport suspension is on, and smiles abound kicking the back end out on public roads

Sure I could do all of that with regular M Sport suspension. The ride would be a bit stiffer for my co-workers, who are already weary of riding with me to lunch Driving the car around DC in Spring would be awful due to the massive pot holes that plaque the area. But otherwise fine.

There's also the Brembo brakes that come with the ZTR package. They look and perform amazing. They're also extremely easy to replace pads on. Slide the old pad out, slide the new pad in, done. No taking the caliper off, holding it up with bungee cords and boxes, spending an hour in the garage, it's awesome.

So... to me, yeah, the ZTR package is worth it.

My new 228i vert Mpackage, had all options less the track package. It is my DD and will never be on a track or do autoX. Been there done that. At 72 I want a capable car and this fits the bill perfectly. This was a great write up and proves the weakling of the 2 series is quite capable and in some regard better than the more powerful models on the track. It is more than I need so I am pleased with my decision.

[Alex Lipowich]

Very well written up by OP. A shame people don't read the fine print right away, and instead of getting pride hurt, just rehash that they think OP is correct, and a short track will let this car shine.

At any rate, the only comment I would say, as a nit-picky racer that WAY over analyzes stuff....

OP and many others might be leaving something on the table when they put on ONLY front track pads. While it is true that modern EBD [Electronic Brake Distribution (bias adjustment)] is excellent, and can adjust bias on the fly to compensate for differences it can see in the 4 speed sensors etc.... keep in mind, its making changes and expecting certain results that are predicated by the assumption that you have stock pads, ie with a given CF across temperature and pressure ranges.

The EBD will have to hunt around and get misled as changes it makes don't turn out as expected because at high temps, your CF in front is pretty different than a stock pad, and its still stock in back. I would suspect that OP has increased dramatically the ability to avoid heat soak boiling of fluid in front... but potentially at the expense of increased braking distances, or less effective braking obtained at the back of the car.

And yes, I've seen this in the real world. We have a tendency to see that the rears last forever, so no need to upgrade is the thought..., or, see that track pads in front don't wear out as much.... but that really only means we aren't using the rears to stop the car! Hmmmmmmmm something to think about, eh?

I've spoken to the principle behind the White Papers at Stop Tech's site, and he completely confirms the basics behind my discussion here.

I'm not a newb to BMWs....xyobgyn or M3 Euro LTW elsewhere... ABL Original Parts.

[flypenfly]

Just wanted to bump this awesome thread.