[jmwilson125]

Hey guys.

I am putting higher temp brake fluid in soon. I figured i might as well do ss lines while i am flushing the system.

I know the current lines are not bad and, I may not gain any increased pedal feel but I am going to do the swap anyways.

Does anyone have a reccomendation for lines as far as fit, quality, finish, warranty ect?

The two brand i know if are challenge and stoptech. Does anyone revo.end over the other? They are both about the same price.

[Sail Boat]

No need to upgrade your lines, you will feel no difference. Ultimately, rubber lines last longer than stainless anyways. I would focus on pads and fluid (I recommend Motul 5.1).

There's a reason why Ferrari and other performance brands use rubber!

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by Sail Boat

No need to upgrade your lines, you will feel no difference. Ultimately, rubber lines last longer than stainless anyways. I would focus on pads and fluid (I recommend Motul 5.1).

There's a reason why Ferrari and other performance brands use rubber!

Good to know. I thought it would be a maginal difference, and also tick off the check box for another mod.

If its actually exactly the same or worse i wont even bother. My buddy picked up some of the ATE blue or whatever replaced it. I was just going to use that. I was also planning on going to yellow stuffs.

[bryan_G01]

change the lines, fluid and pads. do the job right.

Bimmerworld lines for the 235. I went with the shielded ones. Motul 600 flushed before a track day, pfc08 for track, yellowstuff for daily.

[bryan_G01]

[QUOTE=
There's a reason why Ferrari and other performance brands use rubber![/QUOTE]

and look at the size of their calipers and rotors...

Stainless Steel lines are similar to OEM hoses in function, but differ greatly in execution. Unlike OEM hoses, SS lines incorporate a low-compliance Teflon inner hose. In addition, instead of covering the Teflon with overmolded rubber a woven braid of Stainless Steel strands is placed over the hose for protection.


So why is that better than the OEM rubber design?

Stainless Steel lines provide a number of benefits as compared to their OEM rubber overmolded counterparts.
1. The SS braid provides superior protection from flying roadway debris.
2. The SS braid and Teflon hose reduce expansion during pressurization.
3. They provide the race car look.

I understand the protection benefit, but can you explain the reduced expansion benefit?

Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal.
Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal.
In addition, the reduced compliance will result in a faster transient response of the brake system. In other words, the time from the driver hitting the brake pedal until deceleration is generated will be decreased by a small amount. The benefit will vary based on each individual application, but in general overall deceleration can be attained more quickly, resulting in slightly shorter stopping distances.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

and look at the size of their calipers and rotors...

Stainless Steel lines are similar to OEM hoses in function, but differ greatly in execution. Unlike OEM hoses, SS lines incorporate a low-compliance Teflon inner hose. In addition, instead of covering the Teflon with overmolded rubber a woven braid of Stainless Steel strands is placed over the hose for protection.


So why is that better than the OEM rubber design?

Stainless Steel lines provide a number of benefits as compared to their OEM rubber overmolded counterparts.
1. The SS braid provides superior protection from flying roadway debris.
2. The SS braid and Teflon hose reduce expansion during pressurization.
3. They provide the race car look.

I understand the protection benefit, but can you explain the reduced expansion benefit?

Any time that an object is subjected to internal pressure, it expands. The amount of expansion will be proportional to the amount of pressure present and the rigidity of the holding structure. In the case of brake hoses, we are subjecting Teflon to internal pressures as high as 3000PSI. Because the Teflon is relatively flexible (which makes it ideal for the job in one regard), it will expand under these conditions. This expansion creates additional fluid volume in the hydraulic circuit which is felt by the driver as a soft or mushy pedal.
Rubber overmolding does little to reduce expansion under pressure, as rubber is also a relatively flexible material. A woven braid of Stainless Steel, however, can greatly increase the rigidity of the hose under pressure while still allowing adequate flexibility for wheel end movement. In many cases, this reduced expansion can be felt by the driver as a firmer or more responsive brake pedal.
In addition, the reduced compliance will result in a faster transient response of the brake system. In other words, the time from the driver hitting the brake pedal until deceleration is generated will be decreased by a small amount. The benefit will vary based on each individual application, but in general overall deceleration can be attained more quickly, resulting in slightly shorter stopping distances.

Thanks for the detailed feedback Brian. I have been on the fence about this one, as many people say "modern" rubber lines do not expand as much and do not need to be replaced.

However this is a fairly cheap mod. And if i am already flushing the brakes I'm sure it will be a snap to do.

A couple quick related questions. Why not just use an even higher temp fluid like the motul 660? Unnecessary and cost more im guessing?

Any tips or tricks for the line swap? It looks pretty straight forward to me.

I plan on running yellows for dd and light track duty. Stock was ok-ish for me. I don't run the car super hard. Just hard enough to have a good time and not go off track.

[bryan_G01]

Motul 600 is cheap, and FCP euro carries it, so whenever i do a brake flush, i can ship back my old and get new for free (minus cost of shipping back).

You really don't need anything higher unless you are endurance racing or going to be at open track for hours at a time.

I had a speed shop do my lines, i didn't want to mess with it, and i had them do my alignment at the same time.

Yellows are fine for street, but i found them to go numb on track. But hey, they might be fine for you.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

Motul 600 is cheap, and FCP euro carries it, so whenever i do a brake flush, i can ship back my old and get new for free (minus cost of shipping back).

You really don't need anything higher unless you are endurance racing or going to be at open track for hours at a time.

I had a speed shop do my lines, i didn't want to mess with it, and i had them do my alignment at the same time.

Yellows are fine for street, but i found them to go numb on track. But hey, they might be fine for you.

Sounds like a good deal to me. Is that just a fcp euro thing? Sounds like I should start using them.

And yes. If yellows are better than stock i think ill be ok for now. Maybe down the road i will need some more stopping power.

[bryan_G01]

FCP Euro has lifetime on everything they sell.

I use them for everything I can, and you just send back the old and get a full refund.

[jmwilson125]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

FCP Euro has lifetime on everything they sell.

I use them for everything I can, and you just send back the old and get a full refund.

Thats awesome thanks for the tip!

[teinesina]

So did you feel a difference or not? When I went to stainless on my mini the difference was night and day.