02-04-2019, 11:05 AM | #23 |
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I'll post an update when the car has new shoes, but for now still trying to find comparisons between the GT tires and the UHP all seasons.
I have the tallest sidewall offered on this car, and many of the tests (particularly the RFT's) run on cars with little sidewall which definitely impacts (see what I did there) the way the tire performs. No one seems to cross test what I'm looking for though. They only test within their 'categories' which seems like baloney (unless that's on purpose to sell more rubber). Obviously there's no 'wrong' answers, so may just have to make a blind decision. Seth |
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02-19-2019, 07:15 PM | #24 |
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Don't know why the AS3+ gets no love around here. I went from PSS to AS3+ and the new tires are a bit louder but I like the overall feel (and look). I think that going to an all-season is better for my use case (Austin, TX and track tires and wheels for my other set). I don't want three sets.
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02-21-2019, 01:39 PM | #25 |
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I can tell you from my research that any summer tire should be a non starter for a daily driver. Also true for ultra high performance all seasons.
According to the data they are noisier, last a shorter amount of time, and have a poorer ride and get worse mileage. Sometimes they even cost more money. Objectively they grip better, but that's in a controlled environment. In the real world there are too many variables for it to make a practical difference. There is a subjective difference in 'feel' but its hard to quantify that. The pavement changes too many times, with too many random things on the surface. Which in plain English means you won't notice any higher g's in corners or shorter stopping distances at real world speeds on real world roads (I'm comparing top of the line to top of the line only) Again, if you track your car or autox (also controlled environments) then that's different since you are sacrificing everything for grip. However outside of that single use case, and I'm making a broad generalization, your money is better spent avoiding the ultra high performance groups since the performance of the rest of the tires is almost as good or superior in other regards. Seth |
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04-29-2019, 05:30 PM | #26 |
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So here's the update - went with non RFT General Gmax RS
now the why: first - lets remember I'm running a square setup of 17"s which are 205/50 That sort of limits my choices since most of what people run on the forums are 18" or higher and they have rubber not available in my sizes. Also their experiences aren't helpful due to different sidewall size and tire width. Second is the decision to get RFT's or not. And this limits the choices even further since there is effectively 1 RFT for this car aside from OE and that's the driveguard. Now here's where it gets fun - tire tech is interesting in that this generation all season may outperform last generations max summer. So its very hard to compare apples to apples and I was looking at the Yokohama Avid GT as it's the newest A/S on the block with the best wet handling. With that said - there were really only very few A/S choices in my size. Continentals, Michelin were the only other two that were comparable. The others were a step behind and effectively cost the same. I looked and reviewed everything, kumho, sumitomo, toyo, hankook, cooper, firestone, you name it. The Michelin's I ruled out because the models in the size available to me weren't arguably any better (in fact from a comfort and feel perspective they were arguably worse) but were considerably more expensive. There's no value there. The Pirelli's didn't rate so well. Nor did the Bridgestones. (noise seems to be an issue). Continental rated nicely as did the Yokohama but they all say that they are significantly softer than the OE runflat feel. I'm happy with the OEM 'feel' and just want a better tire. That lead me to the bridgestones for RFT. I figure if I'm getting an A/S I may as well get the best. But those are near $900 for the set installed. And that's discounted. Enter General. This is allegedly the poor mans continental. And continental is OE. I had a choice, All season or no, and the handling of the summer only is supposed to be superb (including better ride and noise than the OEM). Here's the kicker - They were half the price of the RFT's. $100 a tire and a $70 gift card. So I'm 'living on the edge' by having no spare (was really hoping the RFT's would be cheaper than buying a spare but they weren't)- but I can run fix a flat and plug. This was a money talks BS walks situation, and none of the other manufacturers had a tire that was as quiet, and handles the wet and dry as well as the Generals. That they were less than half the price of a Michelin - which admittedly do better on a track and should last 5k more miles - one of those being irrelevant and the other YMMV. ----- For those who skip to the end there isn't a particular tire that's best 'all things being equal' since all things aren't. If it gets colder than 50 degrees by you (here it doesn't) then you rule out the entire summer category and go A/S. You will not be disappointed because these A/S on the street really do match their non A/S brethren (the newest crop of course). Lots of options. Likely the most and this category is not cheap because its the most popular so they can charge for it. If that's for you the top choice is the Yokohama Avid GT with the second top being the conti DWS. The michelin premier A/S is way more expensive than both and is hard riding. So if that's for you then that's your pick. If you want an RFT you have one choice the drivegard. There are other max performance RFT's and A/S RFT's but they are either an order of magnitude more expensive and don't really handle any better than a non RFT, or are just older designs. So only get this if you have money to burn or if they happen to come out with something new that improves over the existing for less money. Last is the summer category. Here there were few choices and its really a matter of just finding the newest tech and least expensive. They are all excellent so there is no wrong answer its more a matter of feel/preference. I read a bunch of reviews from people who track the tires to hear how greasy they get or how much they sit on the sidewalls and made a call based on what works for me. Lots of complaints about some of these tires hurting steering feel or on center so its really a preferential decision. This was true with the A/S category as well. Likely this ends up being more important than absolute grip and things since its what you live with daily. Since my tire is a street only tire I have no concerns if they overheat after a few laps as that's not a situation that's of concern. Many times a tire with good track qualities has poor street qualities and vice versa. So I went with the one that optimized street use (comfort, noise) vs. track use and think I found a winner. I'll reply back once I have some seat time. Seth |
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04-29-2019, 06:19 PM | #27 | |
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Quote:
The RFTs are horrible. Avoid. |
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04-30-2019, 12:06 PM | #28 |
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Thanks, I thought about this - price was a bit steep - but worth it if you have long distances to cover. I probably would have gone for RFT's at that point since to get the donut plus non RFT's you end up spending more than just buying 4 RFT's.
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05-02-2019, 12:07 PM | #29 |
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Ok - initial impressions.
First the look - these are meaty. Nice and thick. Almost like having a 5mm spacer all around. Made me mad because these protect the rims from curbs nicely unlike the SSR's that were on before : ( Just a quick shout out that I didn't mention - the Hankook Evo v12 was super highly rated by BMW people and I didn't mention it earlier for someone looking for an A/S that is UHP. Now for feedback - first its new so everything is super creamy. The way it rolls, the way it steers. Lots of this may be topped off air pressures and also any residual manufacturing oils. Everything feels more lubricated compared to the oem. As for noise, arguably 'louder' but the noise is different. No rumble at all, just a slight white noise higher pitch. There was a few hour difference between tires so it could be my imagination the loudness but there definitely is a slight TV static sound that wasn't there before. Now for the real difference which is just 'feel'. There is a bit of off center wierdness. You can jiggle the wheel with no effect which you used to not be able to do before. However, once off center the turning resistance is higher than the OEM - and much more direct. It's much sharper and more immediate and you may infer that it's grabby. Almost twitchy. No way to know if this is just a difference in pressure or newness and the sensitivity will go as the outer layer wears. The previous tires were more sedate. They took a set and were more deliberate not as reactive. Mind you these tires still have that butteryness that the OEM's didn't. I'm going to chalk this up to how these tires have a wide solid center band which 'wants' to stay straight and there is resistance to turn, however once turned there's more grip. Other tires with no bands and just tread blocks won't feel this. Still it's only been 90 min so will know more after 500 miles. Seth |
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05-13-2019, 12:17 PM | #30 |
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ok - I have 2 tanks of gas in these tires and the oiliness is gone (thankfully, that greasy feeling was disconcerting) so here's the summary.
Pro's - heroic grip. Truly. Never had a tire like this on any car, and this is in Florida monsoon storms. Definitely a good 'wet' tire. Also rolls smoother than the factory SSR's and everything is just creamier all around. I had to re-calibrate my brake pedal pressure because they stop so much shorter. Price price price price price. Did I mention these were a steal? Neutral - steering still squishy. Likely due to having full tread with more tread squirm, plus softer sidewalls than a RFT. Can't really make this a con as its true across the board. Although reduced feedback is sometimes a pro for a commuter tire as its less tiresome. Likely will continue to get 'tighter' as the tread wears. So this is kinda neither here nor there. Con's - noise. These are extremely quiet tires. However extremely quiet is louder than silent. And the previous tires I never heard. Also they hunt at higher speeds and when the pressures rise. This is a good thing for feel because the steering comes alive, but its not relaxed. Would I do it again not sure. I couldn't find a tire of this caliber and quality anywhere near the price ($102 a tire free delivery and install due to the promotion). But I am not happy with the highway noise and the pavement sensitivity when the pressures rise (and in there is a huge pressure swing of at least 3 psi when on the rd vs. cold). I honestly could live with the hunting/tramlining, it's a max perf summer tire and they all do that (this is a handling oriented car), but serenity is more important to me. The thing is, I don't know which tires are quieter, if any, at any level at this price so won't beat myself up about it. Will probably get a 'grand touring' tire next time and not a max performance one. Seth |
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