[XutvJet]

Where there you go. The likely issue is FS's recent revision to their DP. That different cone setup has changed a lot with the lengths of the other pipe pieces.

[Who?]

Fabspeed Motorsport
I just purchased a downpipes through mike/xph (haven't got it yet), but reading through this thread got me thinking. If this happened to me (ill be DIYing mine) what is the process of getting a replacement? I won't be bending or forcing the brackets in any way.

I have an m2, not a m235, and the general consensus is that your downpipes fits perfectly on it, so im not too worried. Still would be good to know the process involved

for example, I live in Australia, and shipping it back and forth will cost considerable amount of money- will you be covering this?

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Who?,



We are hoping that we will be able to use Steve’s OEM part to determine if there needs to be any changes made to our jig – if there are changes to be made we will absolutely be sending you a new one.



We are hoping this is an isolated incident but if you have any fitment issues don’t hesitate to reach out to us and we’ll get it taken care of. You can reach our Customer Service Manage, Brian, at 215.646.4945

[ham_hock_]

This all pretty unfortunate to read. I too have a sport cat on order based on all the positive reviews. It's hard to imagine that Steven's installation issues will remain an isolated problem. Fabspeed made a change to "make it more time efficient to build", but may have compromised a great product (while, I believe increasing the cost—didn't it used to be $1299?). I'll be sure to provide the forum more feedback once it arrives at the reputable BMW mechanic. Hoping this story ends well for all!

[abdiel]

Originally Posted by abdiel

I'm taking it to a shop (in Ann Arbor) recommended by Fabspeed. Hopefully there is no fitment issues because that shop is pricey.

Had it installed at the recommeded shop today.

Good news = Installed with no fitment issues.
Bad news = Got charged book time (4 hours) at a premium shop rate. (even though the initial estimate was 2 hours)

L. O. L.

Live and learn (how to wrench at home).

[stevemg9]

Originally Posted by abdiel

Had it installed at the recommeded shop today.

Good news = Installed with no fitment issues.
Bad news = Got charged book time (4 hours) at a premium shop rate. (even though the initial estimate was 2 hours)

L. O. L.

Live and learn (how to wrench at home).

Nice, glad it worked out for you. Just a heads up, if you're in Michigan I would check out My Mechanics Place in Livonia - it's a DIY garage. They have like 4-5 bays with lifts, a paint booth, metal shop, (almost) any tool you could need, and the guys that work there are really helpful. I had two quotes for the install of the DP one was $350 and the other was $400 and the reputable indy BMW shop around me refused to install aftermarket parts. The prices seemed crazy to me. It took me 2 hours at the DIY garage (and that was going slow, fighting with clamps, searching for tools, and messing around with that bracket) and cost about $65 for the lift and air tool rentals - but I did end up buying the external torx sockets and O2 sensor removal tool - so maybe about $100 all in.

With that experience - assuming no fitment issues - I feel like a professional should be able to knock out that install in less than 90 minutes - maybe about an hour if they really know what they're doing.

But I will never attempt to do the DP swap/install again without a lift - it's not worth my sanity.

[XutvJet]

Take note everyone and FS, here's an M2 owner with apparently the same exact fitment issue as Steve. FS - I suggest you start pulling these new DPs and inspecting them and/or your jig. Something isn't right.

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=65

http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1372267&page=3

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Hey Everyone,

We are aware of both of these issues.

We are currently gathering as much information as we can on these incidents, including everything and everyone that was involved the fabrication process.

Even after we updated the cone on this product, we have had a perfect fit reported on a majority of the installs, so we still currently believe that most of individual products themselves have not been compromised.

If your unit does not fit properly, please contact us immediately so we can rectify the issue and find out more information that will help us ensure each and every one of our customers achieves a perfect fit with their product.

[ham_hock_]

Fabspeed Motorsport
How are you handling mechanics labor after time spent trying to install a sport cat that doesn't fit properly? (In addition to the time spent putting the stock unit BACK on).

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

PNK,

Right now we are early in the stages of gathering information and have only seen these two incidents that were mentioned. We are in contact with both customers and are resolving each of those issues independently.

If other incidents arise we will handle those individually as well, depending upon the circumstances.

We are analyzing everything internally to determine the exact cause of these fitment issues, and will have a better idea of what our plans will be once we get more information. We are taking this very seriously and will take steps to ensure this issue does not continue to occur.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Would you be willing to send us your OEM part, at our cost, so we can have our R & D team reverse engineer it and see if there is any mid-year or year-to-year update that has occurred with the vehicle that we were not aware of? We would of course return the part after we are finished, along with a new updated version for you if there are any changes that need to be made.

Our Customer Service Manager, Brian, would love to talk to you about this over the phone if you are available. You can reach him at 215.626.4945 EX. 124

Phil

Phil,

I've hopped over to this thread from the f87 sub forum since I had the identical issue with my Sport Cat.

My car is only 3,000miles and less than 6 months old, and the stock cat is therefore in potentially better condition than Steves, and I'd be happy to send it over to you to take a look at for sure. It's already packaged up in the original packaging that you sent my Sport Cat in actually; sat on a shelf, waiting for re-installation before my next service.

Let me know if you'd like me to do that. I could have it sent to you as early as next Monday.

[ham_hock_]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

PNK,

Right now we are early in the stages of gathering information and have only seen these two incidents that were mentioned. We are in contact with both customers and are resolving each of those issues independently.

If other incidents arise we will handle those individually as well, depending upon the circumstances.

We are analyzing everything internally to determine the exact cause of these fitment issues, and will have a better idea of what our plans will be once we get more information. We are taking this very seriously and will take steps to ensure this issue does not continue to occur.

Fabspeed Motorsport
Thanks of the reply. A few questions:
1. How many of the new style Sport Cat's have you sold?
2. Have you reached out to the customers that received this new style to enquire whether any modifications (bending) were required for mounting? If not it's impossible to know whether a third-party mechanic may have installed this and did what was necessary (bent the bracket) to get it to work without mentioning it to the customer.
3. What lead to the cost increase if the reason for making the change was to be more time-efficient.
4. What benefit does the CUSTOMER see from this change to what historically has been an extremely successful product?

[stevemg9]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Phil,

I've hopped over to this thread from the f87 sub forum since I had the identical issue with my Sport Cat.

My car is only 3,000miles and less than 6 months old, and the stock cat is therefore in potentially better condition than Steves, and I'd be happy to send it over to you to take a look at for sure. It's already packaged up in the original packaging that you sent my Sport Cat in actually; sat on a shelf, waiting for re-installation before my next service.

Let me know if you'd like me to do that. I could have it sent to you as early as next Monday.

I'm sorry that this happened to you too, but the selfish part of me is a little relieved that I'm not completely alone on this. I saw your other post and had the same bad feeling about reinstalling the factory cat now that I already bent the hell out of that bracket. Hopefully it goes back in place with little effort.

I will say that I'm surprised that you were able to do this with your car on jack stands - so kudos to you! I barely had enough room to move my arms around - and since that bracket didn't line up, I had nothing to hold the DP in place while I tried to get the clamps on. Frustration won that battle.

I just dropped off my factory DP at the UPS store today - meant to do it last week but life got in the way. FabSpeed should receive it this week. I'm interested to see how it fits in their (new?) jig made for the new cast cone.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by stevemg9

I'm sorry that this happened to you too, but the selfish part of me is a little relieved that I'm not completely alone on this. I saw your other post and had the same bad feeling about reinstalling the factory cat now that I already bent the hell out of that bracket. Hopefully it goes back in place with little effort.

I'm still wondering what FabSpeed is going to do about this. I am hoping they at least offer us replacements if they find out there is an issue. I'm planning to fit the stock DP for services each year (until out of warranty), so it's going to be on and off a few times. I really need the bracket to not be bent to and fro every time.

I have to say that I'm pretty annoyed. I chose the FabSpeed over the Wagner because I didn't expect to have fitting issues. I know the actual Cat component is different, but at nearly double the price, the fit and finish should be that much better as well.

I will say that I'm surprised that you were able to do this with your car on jack stands - so kudos to you! I barely had enough room to move my arms around - and since that bracket didn't line up, I had nothing to hold the DP in place while I tried to get the clamps on. Frustration won that battle.

My wife isn't very 'supportive' of me working on my car. She doesn't dissuade me from doing it, but she also doesn't want to help. I therefore got pretty good at doing things on my own without an extra pair of hands. It's not easy, but it's possible.

I did have to use some channel lock pliers to pull the turbo to DP clamp up tight and get the bolt in, but once it was in, it held the weight of the DP enough for me to let go and line up the other end of the exhaust. Once both the clamps were on, but loose, I took the weight of the DP with one hand and did the clamps up, one at a time with the other. I did the bracket last, and was able to get it together by loosening the bolts on the other end of the bracket so that it was all sort of loose. Tightening them all up of course bent both the bracket and the DP mount into place.

I just dropped off my factory DP at the UPS store today - meant to do it last week but life got in the way. FabSpeed should receive it this week. I'm interested to see how it fits in their (new?) jig made for the new cast cone.

I'm interested too... I think the photos a few posts up show that the mount on the new design DP is too high up. It's clearly not just the top cone that's changed, the lower pipe after the Cat is shorter now as well, so it's pretty much a complete re-design.

I suspect the only reason that FabSpeed haven't heard back from the 'many other customers' that have used the new design, is that a) it is new, and there can't be that many of the new type out in the wild, and b) most are installed by mechanics who don't want to upset their customer and just find a way to get it to fit. I suspect the issue is there for everyone, it's just that we were the first to report it.

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give an update on the current situation. We have discovered an issue with our jig, and it has since been corrected. We have narrowed down the time period when the jig was compromised and have contacted each customer who may have been affected by the issue, extending an offer to fix the product so that it achieves a perfect fit on the vehicle with no issues involved.

As far as the price change and change to the fabrication process of our product, these two things are completely unrelated. The price change occurred a few months prior and was due to a price increase in materials and manufacturing. The fabrication process was changed as part of an effort to reduce the chance of human error and has no effect on the overall quality of the product.

We do not believe either of these things had any impact on the jig, which was causing the fitment problem. We are analyzing the surrounding circumstances internally to avoid this issue in the future.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and patience, and if you are having an issue with your product please don’t hesitate to reach out.

[frenchfry675]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Hey everyone,

I just wanted to give an update on the current situation. We have discovered an issue with our jig, and it has since been corrected. We have narrowed down the time period when the jig was compromised and have contacted each customer who may have been affected by the issue, extending an offer to fix the product so that it achieves a perfect fit on the vehicle with no issues involved.

As far as the price change and change to the fabrication process of our product, these two things are completely unrelated. The price change occurred a few months prior and was due to a price increase in materials and manufacturing. The fabrication process was changed as part of an effort to reduce the chance of human error and has no effect on the overall quality of the product.

We do not believe either of these things had any impact on the jig, which was causing the fitment problem. We are analyzing the surrounding circumstances internally to avoid this issue in the future.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and patience, and if you are having an issue with your product please don't hesitate to reach out.

That's very nice of you to fix your mistakes for your customers....I would hope they would get something other than a part that fits right the second time they install it. Partial refund maybe for all the wasted time and extra effort put in to make it fit?
I'm happy the op and any one else with this issue will have it resolved but Not a company that will get business from me or anyone I know after this. Actions speak louder then words. When people have to band together for action it doesn't look good. Thank god for forums.

[abdiel]

Originally Posted by frenchfry675

Partial refund maybe for all the wasted time and extra effort put in to make it fit?

Or at least some sort of voucher for your online shop as a goodwill gesture for those unlucky ones that had to deal with the defective parts.

In my case where I had a shop do the install, I'd hate to think about how much more labor I would have to pay if my I had the defective part. Probably at least double.

[JP's M2xx]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

Hey Stevemg9,

Glad to see you got everything installed!

We’re sorry you had issues with the install, but unfortunately there’s just too many variables for us to diagnose the issue through these pictures. This is one of our most popular items, we sell over 500 a year, and have never had a fitment issue come up that was not resolved with minor troubleshooting.


I think it would be irresponsible to assign blame on anything – our bracket, the OEM bracket, the install process, the history of your vehicle, the fitment of other parts of your car – without having the car fully checked out by an experienced technician. The bottom-line is we stand by our products 100% and if it happens to break it would absolutely be covered by our Transferable Limited Lifetime Warranty. We have had multiple technicians look over all of the pictures you have provided and they don’t believe there is a cause for concern at this moment, but if anything should happen, just give us a call and we’ll take care of it.

"too many variables" yet it was pretty clear in the pictures and the chance that BMW suddenly made these parts differently was very, very slim....and then reality hits. For those that paid a shop to do this (especially more than once) I would hope some form of compensation is in order. Not handled well at all in my opinion.

[Nezil]

As you all know, I was the other forum member that experienced the fitment issue with the FabSpeed Sport Cat, and I'd like to give my perspective on the way that FabSpeed have handled the issue.

My attitude is that accidents like this happen, and FabSpeed reached out to me directly (via PM) before I had a chance to reach them, which in my mind is fantastic customer service.

They've looked into the problem quickly and efficiently; discovered the issue, and admitted publicly to their mistake, which is ownership of the problem as well.

I guess I'm fortunate that I self installed mine, so I won't be out of pocket too much financially when I send mine back to them for repair / replacement.

I'm also fortunate that I plan to have the car up on jack stands in the next week or so, because I have a new FMIC arriving any day, so it's not even going to cost me too much time; I'll already be under the car and able to do the work fairly quickly.

Any compensation for customer inconvenience and loss is something to be discussed between FabSpeed and the customer directly. I, for example, don't need compensation for mechanic time, but I might have other needs. This kind of recompense isn't something that I would expect to be discussed on forums publicly. I'm confident that FabSpeed will 'make it right' with every customer affected.

To be honest, I'm disappointed that so many people who aren't even customers of FabSpeed are giving their staff a hard time when they're being so transparent.

I work for a large consumer electronics manufacturer, and there is probably no-one on similar enthusiast forums (like AVS Forum) that knows more about our TVs that I do, but I'm scared to post what is potentially valuable information because of responses like I'm seeing here. Forums are amazing resources, but please, let's be respectful of everyone on here, including manufacturers and retailers.

[abdiel]

Originally Posted by Nezil

To be honest, I'm disappointed that so many people who aren't even customers of FabSpeed are giving their staff a hard time when they're being so transparent.

Well, you can interpret it that way.
Another way would be that by holding them accountable led to the issue discovery.

If you go back and look at all the FabSpeed replies, they were essentially that:

• there is no way their product is out of spec,
• the pictures don't indicate any issues,
• their jig prevents assembly problems,
• some minor adjustments will solve the problems

to, oops, it was one of our assembly jigs.

If a mistake was made, own up to it (done), take your lumps (done) and make it right (maybe done). Any other response will cost you in the long run.

[abdiel]

Originally Posted by abdiel

If a mistake was made, own up to it (done), take your lumps (done) and make it right (maybe done). Any other response will cost you in the long run.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=133

Hmm, was the lesson learned or will they repeat the same mistake?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Nezil

To be honest, I'm disappointed that so many people who aren't even customers of FabSpeed are giving their staff a hard time when they're being so transparent.

Well, let's see:

1) FS claims they "have sent hundreds of these out and not had an issue." but that's not quite true because Steve's DP was a new design that just hit the market. He had a fitment issue and an M2 owner had the SAME EXACT issue. Turns out the jig was wrong just like I said FS should look into, but no, it's not the DP or jig because FS says they sold hundreds. Sold hundreds of the new DP? Maybe (doubt it). Installed hundreds? Nope. I would bet you $100 EVERY SINGLE one of these new DPs built in that jig has this issue and my guess is FS is recalling them as I write this.

2) FS said not to force it on. Then their trained experts say force it on after looking at pictures. If FS were really the experts they claim, why didn't they put two and two together after seeing the pictures and think "well crap, something's not right with our new DP design. Have Steve send it back."

3) Then after the issue is "resolved" by forcing it on, FS responds and says "there’s just too many variables for us to diagnose the issue through these pictures. This is one of our most popular items, we sell over 500 a year, and have never had a fitment issue come up that was not resolved with minor troubleshooting." See bullets #2 and #3. FS should have stopped trouble-shooting through email and pictures and immediately said, please send back the DP and we'll look at this and make things right on your end if we identify an issue with our workmanship. I would say hindsight is 20/20, but this troubleshooting approach is not really new to FS.

Yeah, I am a bit crusty about this stuff because I've been burned so many times and spent thousands on ill-fitting aftermarket parts. IMO, you have about a 20% chance that an aftermarket performance part will fit your car like OEM. Exhaust parts are some of the worst and when they're off by even just a few millimeters, it throws everything out of whack.

I've been in the consulting business for 20 years. I've strive for the highest quality products possible, but things go wrong from time to time. I've owned up to mistakes made on my projects and made things right, given money back to clients when we've screwed (and sometimes even when we didn't). In the end, it's a small cost to keep clients happy, build their trust, and keep them coming back.