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      10-01-2015, 10:08 AM   #1
ggabriele3
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Center channel upgrade?

In preparing for my speaker upgrade I've read a lot of posts about people disconnecting their center channel speakers, and also saying it can't be upgraded easily because the space under the speaker is small and shallow.

However, it appears that there is a lot of space above the speaker:



so, seems like a spacer could be crafted to make a better speaker (is go with the focals) fit. I'd be designing and 3D printing the spacer (see my other thread).

Would it be worth the upgrade?
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      10-01-2015, 10:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggabriele3 View Post
In preparing for my speaker upgrade I've read a lot of posts about people disconnecting their center channel speakers, and also saying it can't be upgraded easily because the space under the speaker is small and shallow.

However, it appears that there is a lot of space above the speaker:



so, seems like a spacer could be crafted to make a better speaker (is go with the focals) fit. I'd be designing and 3D printing the spacer (see my other thread).

Would it be worth the upgrade?
Remove the speaker, ggabriele, and take note of the small 'cup' beneath the OEM speaker's magnet structure. Anything aftermarket with a decent-sized magnet likely wouldn't fit with the proper clearance, even with a spacer. Basically, one would need to carve out the cup, then figure out how to isolate the speaker enough to get decent sound out of it.

The exception to this that I've seen is the BAVsound driver for the F30. I'm not sure that it's a drop-in fit for the F22, though. From what I've heard, the dimensions are slightly different.
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      10-01-2015, 10:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Remove the speaker, ggabriele, and take note of the small 'cup' beneath the OEM speaker's magnet structure. Anything aftermarket with a decent-sized magnet likely wouldn't fit with the proper clearance, even with a spacer. Basically, one would need to carve out the cup, then figure out how to isolate the speaker enough to get decent sound out of it.

The exception to this that I've seen is the BAVsound driver for the F30. I'm not sure that it's a drop-in fit for the F22, though. From what I've heard, the dimensions are slightly different.
When my Focals arrive I'll see what the magnet area looks like. It looks like there's at least 20mm of clearance between the speaker and the dash, maybe a thick spacer would work.

Maybe a few extra mm of clearance could be bad if I go with a component speaker instead of a coaxial, since there's clearly a spot to the right where a separate tweeter could be mounted (I assume that's what the HK system does)
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      10-01-2015, 11:06 AM   #4
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The issue with replacing center speaker is limited clearance for speaker magnet and basket.
Before working on an adapter you should just place replacement speaker over center cavity and see if front frame of speaker stays below dash surface.
Also removing center speaker sounds better IMHO.
It makes sound stage much wider.
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      10-01-2015, 11:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akuan99 View Post
The issue with replacing center speaker is limited clearance for speaker magnet and basket.
Before working on an adapter you should just place replacement speaker over center cavity and see if front frame of speaker stays below dash surface.
Also removing center speaker sounds better IMHO.
It makes sound stage much wider.
Correct. Both akuan99 and I have replaced our speakers and looked into the center-channel retrofit issue. The 'cup' I talk about fits the curvature of the OEM CC speaker fairly tightly, and appears to function somewhat as a baffle. Your issue isn't the 20mm of room from the speaker mount to the dash lip -- your issue is the plastic behind the mount, where the basket and magnet fit into.

In the F22 Hi-Fi system, the rear deck speakers and the center channel speaker are exactly the same, right down to the part number. The rear deck mounts have no baffle and no plastic underneath, so pretty much any 4-incher will fit. The opposite is the case with the CC.
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      10-05-2015, 06:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
.
In the F22 Hi-Fi system, the rear deck speakers and the center channel speaker are exactly the same, right down to the part number.
This is incorrect, at least from an install standpoint.

The drivers appear to be the same, but the front speakers' mounting holes have a much larger diameter than the rears. As a result I had to design special adapters to mount the fronts in the doors.

See my post here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...0#post18691100
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      10-05-2015, 09:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggabriele3 View Post
This is incorrect, at least from an install standpoint.

The drivers appear to be the same, but the front speakers' mounting holes have a much larger diameter than the rears. As a result I had to design special adapters to mount the fronts in the doors.

See my post here: http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showt...0#post18691100
Front center speaker is not the same as L or R front speaker.
Center speaker is same as rear deck speaker.
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      10-05-2015, 12:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akuan99 View Post
Front center speaker is not the same as L or R front speaker.
Center speaker is same as rear deck speaker.
Thank you.

For the Hi-Fi system:
Center Channel & rear deck: Part no. 65139169690
Front doors: Part no. 65139804157

This page on realOEM may help with part-number references, ggabriele.
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      10-07-2015, 03:46 PM   #9
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What is the center channel used for? Is regular music piped through that?
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      10-07-2015, 06:19 PM   #10
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I would not remove the center channel, but would rather suggest that it be "padded" down with a 4~8ohm power resister. Having that speaker up high in the dash will raise your soundstage ever so slightly.
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      09-29-2019, 11:50 PM   #11
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Speakers

What is the point of disconnecting the center speaker?
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      09-30-2019, 08:11 AM   #12
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That center channel speaker is trash. It's an L+R mono combined channel so its just pointless and murders the sound stage. Disconnecting it results in a significantly cleaner sound stage. I'm pretty sure it's mostly there for ASD and for HK buyers to think they have something fancy. We don't. It's a trash speaker in a trash location that ruins music.
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      10-09-2019, 04:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistantTea View Post
That center channel speaker is trash. It's an L+R mono combined channel so its just pointless and murders the sound stage. Disconnecting it results in a significantly cleaner sound stage. I'm pretty sure it's mostly there for ASD and for HK buyers to think they have something fancy. We don't. It's a trash speaker in a trash location that ruins music.
PREACH!

Just. Say. No. and YANK that thing OUT, stat.

If an audio system really wants to call itself a surround system, it needs to not simply combine stereo channels into a mono channel and call it a center channel, because that's not really a channel at all. That's like sticking a 1980s boom box in mono mode on the coffee table in the middle of your home theater setup ...

... which, by extension, wouldn't have time correction applied properly, either, because the sum-of-two-stereo-channels signal it gets hasn't had proper correction applied. That's what messes up the soundstage the most.
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      10-24-2019, 05:00 PM   #14
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Non Audiophile's Take

I've read many posts about the issues with the HK system but due to my specific situation, I went a different route. I am not an audiophile and I mainly listen to spoken word (audio books, podcasts). So as improvement step one, l upgraded my center speaker. And to my ears, this has been a positive step up in sound quality.
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      11-23-2019, 07:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistantTea View Post
That center channel speaker is trash. It's an L+R mono combined channel so its just pointless and murders the sound stage. Disconnecting it results in a significantly cleaner sound stage. I'm pretty sure it's mostly there for ASD and for HK buyers to think they have something fancy. We don't. It's a trash speaker in a trash location that ruins music.
+1
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      11-23-2019, 04:14 PM   #16
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Just unplug it.
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      11-24-2019, 01:16 PM   #17
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I'm a little curious,
Why not put a spacer for the cup spacing, and reform/ get a custom top cover to allot it as a whole, to sit up higher.
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      11-25-2019, 01:39 PM   #18
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the small 'cup' beneath the OEM speaker's magnet structure. Anything aftermarket with a decent-sized magnet likely wouldn't fit with the proper clearance, even with a spacer. Basically, one would need to carve out the cup, then figure out how to isolate the speaker enough to get decent sound out of it.snaptube telegram web

Last edited by blankava; 11-25-2019 at 03:25 PM..
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      12-30-2019, 07:21 PM   #19
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Does anyone have a photo of the cup showing what it is?

I was hoping to install a nice multichannel sound system with sophisticated technology to make use of a center channel. With the right implementation (i.e., processing) a center channel can greatly improve sound stage for other passengers in car. It’s really disappointing to discover here that that might not be possible? I was hoping to use Morel Hybrid 402s in all five channels.
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      01-15-2020, 06:17 PM   #20
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Stating as an absolute a preference to disconnect the center speaker when doing a system upgrade is shortsighted.

I would agree if the OEM amp was retained or the replacement amp and added DSP wasn’t advanced enough.

I had my 335i center channel disconnected for example and since I am usually by myself when driving, the driver optimized tune works out perfectly and my wife doesn’t really notice how much better the system sounds when in the driver seat and how relatively bad it sounds in the passanger seat. Just the nature of the beast.

Interesting YouTube video from Andy Wehmeyer, owner of Audiofrog.



I know I have different BMW models but all BMW audio systems are very similar so while finalizing an upgrade for my X6 I have been browsing all forums in my research.

For the X6 I am having the new Helix DSP Ultra installed and programming two tunes, a 2-seat tune and a driver seat tune. The new Helix DSP Ultra has improved Virtual Channel Processing and adds some FX sound features including Real Center.

In order to maximize these newer capabilities, I will be upgrading all 3 pairs (FL/C/FR) of my front stage to identical mids and tweeters. If the DSP Ultra real center works as well as the pro level Brax, and it should, I won’t have to compromise enjoyment of the system sound stage to just one seat, both seats will have the same optimal experience and when I want, toggle to a driver seat tune when I am alone.
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      01-23-2020, 02:10 AM   #21
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I installed the Eton B100XCN center speaker, made specifically for that purpose. It is a great little speaker and you can pick one up on eBay for about $100.
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      01-25-2020, 01:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bstone995 View Post
I installed the Eton B100XCN center speaker, made specifically for that purpose. It is a great little speaker and you can pick one up on eBay for about $100.
Is it completely plug and play; no modifications?
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