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      01-24-2023, 04:05 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Couldn't agree with these statements more. I still say we should just abolish the entire cruise ship industry and see what kind of reduction in emissions that yields. There's no worse or more gluttonous way to travel in the 21st century, IMO. The loss in jobs would not be that great, and people would still travel to many of the destinations anyway, they would just use air or rail.
That would impact the decision makers who retire on fat pensions to go on cruises ....and then brag about it to their poor neighbour ice users while tut tutting about how the ice is killing the world and causing wildfires etc ...
so not happening....
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      01-24-2023, 04:45 PM   #596
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Aaannnddd ... let's move back to the auto industry and away from "this is what people I don't know think and I'm super confident of it!"
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He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
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      01-24-2023, 05:51 PM   #597
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Watched the video and he appeared really p..d off throughout the video. Like an invesor who lost his fortune...
But is there truth in what he says. if so its a revelation.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=G4ZcxeRq...SIkaIECMiOmarE
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      01-24-2023, 06:08 PM   #598
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There is NO WAY in hell that Tesla has a 33% gm on its vehicles... their recently reported number was 25% which is still sky high but not 33% high.

Unless the higher end Model S's bring the margin down which I don't believe for 1 sec.
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      01-25-2023, 01:18 AM   #599
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
There is NO WAY in hell that Tesla has a 33% gm on its vehicles
It's quite possible, certainly for the Model Y, with overall margins at 27% summer 2022:



Of course that time is over now, but I wouldn't be surprised if summer 2022 margins on the MY were 30%+
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He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
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      01-25-2023, 01:34 AM   #600
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post

There is NO WAY in hell that Tesla has a 33% gm on its vehicles... their recently reported number was 25% which is still sky high but not 33% high
Also, I was curious as I remember seeing that number so I pulled their disclosures and, yup, 33%:

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He tries to draw people into inane arguments, some weird pastime of his.
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      01-25-2023, 10:31 AM   #601
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Also, I was curious as I remember seeing that number so I pulled their disclosures and, yup, 33%:

Interesting - I am looking at the entire P&L reported 9/30/22.

Look at GP over Total Revenue as a %... it comes out to 25%. Perhaps this includes ALL business inclusive of the solar / electric unit etc... which would be surprising given that I would expect that to be the more profitable part of the business.

Either way, either Teslas are quite cheap to build OR far too expensive... seems like this was an easy move on Elon's part.
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      01-25-2023, 12:00 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Interesting - I am looking at the entire P&L reported 9/30/22.

Look at GP over Total Revenue as a %... it comes out to 25%. Perhaps this includes ALL business inclusive of the solar / electric unit etc... which would be surprising given that I would expect that to be the more profitable part of the business.

Either way, either Teslas are quite cheap to build OR far too expensive... seems like this was an easy move on Elon's part.
Something is not expensive if people are seeing the value and paying for it.

Itís likely the former. Cheap to build. Which shows in the quality of the product, as the price point is similar to luxury cars without being so.
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      01-25-2023, 12:07 PM   #603
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Something is not expensive if people are seeing the value and paying for it.

Itís likely the former. Cheap to build. Which shows in the quality of the product, as the price point is similar to luxury cars without being so.
so then the massive price reduction was just for fun? 😂
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      01-25-2023, 12:08 PM   #604
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so then the massive price reduction was just for fun? 😂
I donít understand your point.
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      01-25-2023, 12:32 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
I donít understand your point.
re read your comment
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      01-25-2023, 01:02 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
re read your comment
Iím aware of what I said. I understand what I said.
I donít understand what you said.
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      01-25-2023, 01:10 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
Iím aware of what I said. I understand what I said.
I donít understand what you said.
ok basic comprehension... u said that people are ok w paying the price the car commands... well not really according to Tesla as there was a violent price reduction
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      01-25-2023, 01:20 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
ok basic comprehension... u said that people are ok w paying the price the car commands... well not really according to Tesla as there was a violent price reduction
You can try to offend me but that doesn’t make you right…

The car had a price reduction in the US (not in Canada, for example) because the Feds made Tesla lower it by virtue of offering a rebate to folks that buy cars that are less than 55k.

So, Tesla, because it has high margins (due to low cost of production), has leeway to lower prices so customers can benefit from the rebate.
If it hadn’t done so, their cars would be priced out of the market.

E.g.: say you are comparing a Tesla at 60-65 against another brand that sells for 55. People were willing to pay the premium for a Tesla before. This 55 car with a 7.5k rebate is sold for 47.5k.

60-65-47.5 = 12.5~17.5k difference.
Now they’re not competing anymore.

Lower the price to 55, your Tesla is now super competitive and you can offset some of the loss in margin by selling a crapshoot more units. This is very basic.

Sum this up with the fact that Tesla seems to now have a surplus of cars (no longer a huge waiting list) and it’s a perfect scenario for prices to be lowered.

In sum: things are only expensive when people are not willing to pay for them (as I said). People were more than happy to pay the asking price.
When you factor in a government rebate that would essentially make their cars at least 7.5k more expensive, it is no longer the case. Not priced by Tesla. Priced by the government. Then they would be “expensive” (i.e. people would no longer pay for them).

So, to answer your silly attempt at a dig by using a rhetorical question: why did Tesla lower their prices in the US? To make sure their cars didn’t all of a sudden become expensive.
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      01-25-2023, 01:23 PM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
Something is not expensive if people are seeing the value and paying for it.

It’s likely the former. Cheap to build. Which shows in the quality of the product, as the price point is similar to luxury cars without being so.
So then by your definition medicines that wipe out people's assets are not expensive because they are willing to pay for it and see the value in paying astronomical costs to live? Try again.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expensive
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      01-25-2023, 01:30 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by CarsAndGuitars View Post
So then by your definition medicines that wipe out people's assets are not expensive because they are willing to pay for it and see the value in paying astronomical costs to live? Try again.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expensive
Do you need a Tesla to live?
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      01-25-2023, 01:37 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
You can try to offend me but that doesnít make you rightÖ

The car had a price reduction in the US (not in Canada, for example) because the Feds made Tesla lower it by virtue of offering a rebate to folks that buy cars that are less than 55k.

So, Tesla, because it has high margins (due to low cost of production), has leeway to lower prices so customers can benefit from the rebate.
If it hadnít done so, their cars would be priced out of the market.

E.g.: say you are comparing a Tesla at 60-65 against another brand that sells for 55. People were willing to pay the premium for a Tesla before. This 55 car with a 7.5k rebate is sold for 47.5k.

60-65-47.5 = 12.5~17.5k difference.
Now theyíre not competing anymore.

Lower the price to 55, your Tesla is now super competitive and you can offset some of the loss in margin by selling a crapshoot more units. This is very basic.

Sum this up with the fact that Tesla seems to now have a surplus of cars (no longer a huge waiting list) and itís a perfect scenario for prices to be lowered.

In sum: things are only expensive when people are not willing to pay for them (as I said). People were more than happy to pay the asking price.
When you factor in a government rebate that would essentially make their cars at least 7.5k more expensive, it is no longer the case. Not priced by Tesla. Priced by the government. Then they would be ďexpensiveĒ (i.e. people would no longer pay for them).

So, to answer your silly attempt at a dig by using a rhetorical question: why did Tesla lower their prices in the US? To make sure their cars didnít all of a sudden become expensive.
They reduced the price of the model s plaid by $20k and it qualifies for zero fed credits. Seems people will pay what they feel itís worth, and stagnant product wasnít moving till the price cut. Free market dictates a products actual value.

The same ^ was true of the x. Consumer sentiment on value has spoken.
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      01-25-2023, 01:37 PM   #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
You can try to offend me but that doesnít make you rightÖ

The car had a price reduction in the US (not in Canada, for example) because the Feds made Tesla lower it by virtue of offering a rebate to folks that buy cars that are less than 55k.

So, Tesla, because it has high margins (due to low cost of production), has leeway to lower prices so customers can benefit from the rebate.
If it hadnít done so, their cars would be priced out of the market.

E.g.: say you are comparing a Tesla at 60-65 against another brand that sells for 55. People were willing to pay the premium for a Tesla before. This 55 car with a 7.5k rebate is sold for 47.5k.

60-65-47.5 = 12.5~17.5k difference.
Now theyíre not competing anymore.

Lower the price to 55, your Tesla is now super competitive and you can offset some of the loss in margin by selling a crapshoot more units. This is very basic.

Sum this up with the fact that Tesla seems to now have a surplus of cars (no longer a huge waiting list) and itís a perfect scenario for prices to be lowered.

In sum: things are only expensive when people are not willing to pay for them (as I said). People were more than happy to pay the asking price.
When you factor in a government rebate that would essentially make their cars at least 7.5k more expensive, it is no longer the case. Not priced by Tesla. Priced by the government. Then they would be ďexpensiveĒ (i.e. people would no longer pay for them).

So, to answer your silly attempt at a dig by using a rhetorical question: why did Tesla lower their prices in the US? To make sure their cars didnít all of a sudden become expensive.
That's a great spin on the situation but the tax credits on most Teslas expired a long time ago in the USA... so again this is just to keep the cars as cheap as possible for as long as possible because competitor entrants are now getting significantly better at an equal or competitive price... the BMW i4 M50 is 65k lol... i want to find the person that takes a Tesla Model 3 performance over that... Which again just says... people are unwilling to pay those prices for quite some time now and the recent quarter results prove that.
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      01-25-2023, 01:43 PM   #613
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I agree with you both. Another factor I didn’t mention is that there’s fierce competition now, which shifts the perception of value by customers.

It doesn’t help their cars are getting older and there are fresh competitors.

We might be splitting hairs here lol
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      01-25-2023, 01:44 PM   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
That's a great spin on the situation but the tax credits on most Teslas expired a long time ago in the USA... so again this is just to keep the cars as cheap as possible for as long as possible because competitor entrants are now getting significantly better at an equal or competitive price... the BMW i4 M50 is 65k lol... i want to find the person that takes a Tesla Model 3 performance over that... Which again just says... people are unwilling to pay those prices for quite some time now and the recent quarter results prove that.
Off topic but thereís a dealer close to me selling an i4 M50 for CAD140,000Ö LOL
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      01-25-2023, 01:52 PM   #615
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Off topic but thereís a dealer close to me selling an i4 M50 for CAD140,000Ö LOL
There is one next to me for 70K usd and hasn't sold for like 3 months lol... willing to bet one could get a fierce discount on that... again, I am not in the EV market but if I was... holy cow that is a solid car for the price... 523 miles, 280 miles range and is built... well like a BMW.

Also the Kia / Hyundai entrants are getting real solid... VW / AUDI are so so but getting there.

Point is Tesla is gonna get creamed without price adjustments... which they did... almost 2 times (with the new tax credit to the customer).

Now if the GOVT wasn't a bunch of kumquats and standardized the fast chargin across the country, then they would be even in more trouble lol.
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      01-25-2023, 01:54 PM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
Do you need a Tesla to live?
no. Is a several-thousand-dollars-per-month medication expensive?

I'll make it easier..

Is $16 beer at a game expensive?

Is a dozen eggs for over $5 expensive? People were paying $1.50 not long ago, but still buying..

Eggs and beer (like Teslas) are not needed to live.
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