[pashad13]

Hi,

Today I got hit with the unfortunate news that my M240i’s B58 has gone completely bad. No compression in cyl #6. Still waiting to hop on a call to see what the hell went wrong. Car was stage 2 tuned with a catless downpipe and agency power intake. Never tracked, but driven hard. Only had 19k miles on it….

What are my options here? How much would it cost to swap a new B58 in it—I see that B58’s are now going for roughly $6,500 but how much would labor be?

If swapping with a different motor, what engines would be compatible for a swap? At this point I would honestly just throw a 2J in it and turn it into a track car, as it would probably cost the same as replacing a new B58 motor in it…

Please share thoughts.

Thank you.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by pashad13

Hi,

Today I got hit with the unfortunate news that my M240i’s B58 has gone completely bad. No compression in cyl #6. Still waiting to hop on a call to see what the hell went wrong. Car was stage 2 tuned with a catless downpipe and agency power intake. Never tracked, but driven hard. Only had 19k miles on it….

What are my options here? How much would it cost to swap a new B58 in it—I see that B58’s are now going for roughly $6,500 but how much would labor be?

If swapping with a different motor, what engines would be compatible for a swap? At this point I would honestly just throw a 2J in it and turn it into a track car, as it would probably cost the same as replacing a new B58 motor in it…

Please share thoughts.

Thank you.

probably $20-22k....

That's the risk when moding...

[cooolone2]

That's the RISK when running a tune!

Many MOD's do not compromise the warranty!
Just sayin

And the age old RULE is you gotta pay to play! So there's that...

There has always been issues with boxes tunes, and unless you dialed it in on your own car, they're garbage IMO. And most tuners aren't giving you specifics on what they're doing in regard to fueling, etc. It's easy to add boost and supposed HP, right up to the point you exceed your fueling capability and then BOOM! Lol

Simplified explanation, but ehhhhh... I've seen a few posts over time with the B58 and #6 failure.

I've heard even finding B58 engines is ridiculously tough. You'd have to find one rear ended and salvage costs is still probably a pretty $... Question then is what is the damage? Cylinder 6 no compression? Head gasket? Or mechanical failure? Value, etc... Anyways...

We're you scanning while running the tune?

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act would require the manufacturer to prove the mods you made contributed to the failure. It's a fight you might not win though, just saying!

I'm not even sure what parts are available out there for these engines.

Good Luck!

[drdunkyn]

Hey, just to put in my 2 cents: my 2017 m240i, without mods, had a "blown cylinder" at about 30k miles. Out of nowhere, started blowing smoke and had to limp back to the nearest dealership. Out of factory warranty, but covered by the Hendrick extended I purchase when new. Total cost was almost $21k. Looking around I've seen a small number of reports regarding cracked cylinders, possibly related to the fact our engine uses a sprayed-on lining rather than a removable one. That clearly also relates to the need to replace the entire engine rather than just the lining.

But at least now I have a brand new engine. Took about 2 weeks for the dealer to get it shipped, another to get it installed.

I'm sure there are cheaper options available, and hope you get yourself up an running soon!

Cheers!

[Nickies]

MODS....... bit your tongue for the pain and you admit you drove hard. Well, hope you have the hard $$$ cash $$$ to fix it.
,

[XutvJet]

The plasma coating on the cylinder liner likely got worn due to excessive fuel washing. Once the coating goes, compression is lost. There's no fix either as the block is completely toast.

With respect to upgrading to the newer B58, with amount of time and effort to make the swap work with the DME would be a nightmare and I doubt there is a shop with the capability to do it.

It will be about $2500-3000 to swap in a new motor and code the DME.

[Shovelman]

An engine is about a hundred pieces and you will need to replace only a few. Likely the biggest one included. Not sure if a new block is available or if I'd trust a used / reconditioned / warranteed one. I might tackle the labor if it was mine. All that said it might not be worth fixing this car vs selling it as a parts car.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by drdunkyn

Hey, just to put in my 2 cents: my 2017 m240i, without mods, had a "blown cylinder" at about 30k miles. Out of nowhere, started blowing smoke and had to limp back to the nearest dealership. Out of factory warranty, but covered by the Hendrick extended I purchase when new. Total cost was almost $21k. Looking around I've seen a small number of reports regarding cracked cylinders, possibly related to the fact our engine uses a sprayed-on lining rather than a removable one. That clearly also relates to the need to replace the entire engine rather than just the lining.

But at least now I have a brand new engine. Took about 2 weeks for the dealer to get it shipped, another to get it installed.

I'm sure there are cheaper options available, and hope you get yourself up an running soon!

Cheers!

Interesting that they didn't do a short- or long-block replacement, using the undamaged external engine parts (head, manifolds, etc.). That may have resulted in more of a labor cost (pulling parts off damaged engine, replacing on new block). Had that done when a VW Turbo Beetle I owned ate a rod bearing, even though it was under warranty at the time.

[raddoc]

Your profile ( pashad13
Drives: 2019 M240i Coupe 8 Spd Auto
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Laguna Beach, California)

says the M240i is a 2019. This unit should still be under the original warranty even with mods. Has BMW weighed in?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by raddoc

This unit should still be under the original warranty even with mods.

(emphasis added)

Why do you believe this to be true?

[F22leo]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

(emphasis added)

Why do you believe this to be true?

I second this, I highly doubt they'd warranty it with the tune and other mods present ( no doubt they were a contributing factor in the engine failure). Stories like this are the reason I'm gonna keep my 235 stock power wise.

[pashad13]

UPDATE (from dealer):

“ scored cylinders. has to do with too much fuel being pumped into the cylinders and washing out the oil lubrication. That's the dangers of tuning because it manipulates the flow rate of injectors.
Total estimate for engine replacement is $27,236.14+tax”

Sooooo…. There is no fucking chance I am paying nearly $30k for a new motor. It is a lease. I did mod it (stage 2 bootmod3, catless dp, ap intake). Warranty will not cover it.

My options? I have a couple… Rebuild the motor, or buy a wrecked car with a usable B58 in it. Dealer quoted me $7,150 for the swap labor cost if I brought them a used or rebuilt motor. I’d say a 3rd party shop could do that for $3k including the DME coding right?

So I think I can get this done for somewhere in the $7-10k range. Hopefully.

[Kernel Kurtz]

Don't think I have anything reassuring to tell you. Modding a lease is an extraordinarily bad idea. If you fix it yourself, you will most certainly have to buy out the lease at the end, they won't be taking it back. Consider it a life lesson and good luck.

[Ajowhan]

Mind if I ask, which stage 2 tune did you get?

[raddoc]

Have you seen this post?

This guy might be able to provide an opinion on whether or not you could get some $$ support from BMW.

Will Modifications Void Your New Car Warranty?

by: Steve Lehto

http://lehtoslaw.com/will-modificati...-car-warranty/


Modifying your new car won’t automatically void your manufacturer’s warranty. But it may cost you depending on the mod. Here is what you need to know.

I got a few questions the other day about vehicle modifications and whether a manufacturer can void your warranty over them after I mentioned the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. A few astute readers pointed out that one of the other things Mag Moss did was forbid manufacturers from requiring consumers to use any particular brand of “article or service” to invoke warranty coverage.

The law says: “No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name . . .”

So, they can’t dictate what brand of parts you put on your car during the warranty period. Mr. Goodwrench, Motorcraft and Mopar are optional. But simply swapping parts is not the area of greatest concern here. The real concern is vehicle modification.

Many modifications people do to their cars fall outside of the “article or service” contemplated by the statute. Suppose you loved the way Vin Diesel could pull wheelies in 13th gear in his Charger and figured a little of that “NOS” would do the same for your car. Even if your little four-banger won’t pull wheelies in any gear, it now puts out a few more horses than before. So, if you find the transmission spitting out teeth like it’s been punched in the mouth by Mike Tyson, you can bet the manufacturer might blame the problem on the increased power being fed to the trans.

The Magnuson Moss Warranty Act requires manufacturers to honor their warranties and auto manufacturers only warrant their vehicles against manufacturing defects. Your claim here could be denied because the failure was not due to a defect in a factory component. It was caused by something added to the car: the nitrous oxide injection system which was not part of your car to begin with. That system caused a non-defective part to fail. Your mod did not void the warranty. It’s just that the failure was not caused by a factory defect.

Other popular modifications might likewise be problematic. Companies sell aftermarket modifications for Electronic Control Units which range from new programming to high performance replacement units. The net result is that the engine is now being controlled by a program unlike the one your car shipped with. Manufacturers know these mods exist and these will also run afoul of warranty coverage. Many Owner’s Manuals specifically state that warranty coverage does not extend to changes to the vehicle’s “configuration” and this limitation is not forbidden by the Magnuson Moss section cited above. The manufacturer is not requiring you to use a particular brand of item or service, they just don’t want you using one that is altered to different settings than those configured at the factory. Or, put it this way: If your ECU went bad and needed replacement, you could replace it with one of any brand you liked, so long as it controlled the engine the same as the original.

Expect your warranty claim on your drivetrain to be scrutinized if you come in with a hopped up ECU. These claims are routinely denied so long as the failure appears to be related somehow to the new – altered – performance parameters of the ECU. And this is perfectly legal according to the Federal Trade Commission which is the government entity charged with creating rules to implement the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.
Many factory warranties also broadly exclude coverage for “racing” or “high performance” aftermarket parts and failures associated with them. Again, manufacturers can legally do this. If you slap a high performance cam in the engine and the engine fails, the manufacturer will likely argue that the cam caused something else to fail which would not have failed but for the bumpy cam you threw it. Is this fair? Depends on how you look at it. Read any Owner’s Manual you can get your hands on and you will see these warnings. Some might argue that you shouldn’t have bought the car if you disagreed with these limitations.

Obviously, an aftermarket camshaft or a hopped up ECU won’t void the entire warranty on your car. The master cylinder failed? The blue tooth quit working? Unless there is a logical connection between the mod and the part or system that failed, you should be good to go.

Keep in mind that some modifications can be undone if need be. I had a client whose stalling complaints were dismissed because he had a K&N air filter on his vehicle. If he had simply swapped the factory air filter back in before he had gone in for warranty work, the claim would probably have breezed through like any other. Instead, when the dealer could not find the problem with his engine someone pointed at the air filter and said, “That’s it.” (We rectified that decision later with some litigation.)

I know there are many mods you can’t just swap in and out whenever you feel like it. In those instances, be prepared to intelligently make the case for why that mod did not cause the problem you are complaining of. And if the dealer shoots you down, ask to speak to someone from the factory if they haven’t already been consulted.

I’ve had people tell me that the seller of the performance parts assured them that the new parts would not affect their warranty coverage. To that, all I can tell you is that they are not the one who has the final say on that; it’s the manufacturer. Perhaps you should show them where your Owner’s Manual addresses aftermarket racing parts and configuration changes to the vehicle. Ask how their product does not fit in those categories.
Also, there is a lot of confusion about the FTC’s “Consumer Alert” on aftermarket parts which is referenced above. To be clear, the FTC explicitly said: “the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage.” Once they have done that, they are all set. And the FTC’s ruling did not sanction alterations, modifications or racing and high performance parts. The ruling addressed “Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance.” That is why it was called, “Auto Warranties & Routine Maintenance.” It was not called “Warranty Coverage Guaranteed for Your Chipped Nitrous-Breathing Ride.”

So, you can use any type of part or service you want during the warranty period so long as it does not alter or reconfigure the car from its factory specs. In the cases which do, you might run into problems getting warranty coverage for failures associated with those parts or modifications, especially if the parts are designed for racing or high performance. And as always, consult with a local attorney when in doubt.

[Jcoop901]

Reminds me of a friend that bought a brand new Mustang Cobra and tossed NOS on it after a couple months and 1800 miles. Took it to the strip and promptly melted pistons. He jerked the NOS back off before they towed it to the dealership. He then proceeded to RANT after they tore it down and found said melted pistons and laughed at any notion of warranty coverage. You wanna play.. be ready to pay.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by pashad13

UPDATE (from dealer):

“ scored cylinders. has to do with too much fuel being pumped into the cylinders and washing out the oil lubrication. That's the dangers of tuning because it manipulates the flow rate of injectors.
Total estimate for engine replacement is $27,236.14+tax”

Sooooo…. There is no fucking chance I am paying nearly $30k for a new motor. It is a lease. I did mod it (stage 2 bootmod3, catless dp, ap intake). Warranty will not cover it.

My options? I have a couple… Rebuild the motor, or buy a wrecked car with a usable B58 in it. Dealer quoted me $7,150 for the swap labor cost if I brought them a used or rebuilt motor. I’d say a 3rd party shop could do that for $3k including the DME coding right?

So I think I can get this done for somewhere in the $7-10k range. Hopefully.

If you do this you will have no warranty whatsoever on the used engine....
If the dealer does it, they will cover the engine for 2 years I believe... unless you also put a stage 2 on that too

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by raddoc

Have you seen this post?

This guy might be able to provide an opinion on whether or not you could get some $$ support from BMW.

Nothing wrong with getting more opinions, of course, but that entire post reinforces that the OP's chance of any warranty coverage is likely not significantly different than zero.

[drdunkyn]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

Interesting that they didn't do a short- or long-block replacement, using the undamaged external engine parts (head, manifolds, etc.). That may have resulted in more of a labor cost (pulling parts off damaged engine, replacing on new block). Had that done when a VW Turbo Beetle I owned ate a rod bearing, even though it was under warranty at the time.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. But BMW didn't question the decision to replace the whole thing, pretty sure the dealer was happy to get paid the $21k! I couldn't get any more of an answer that "cracked cylinder" as to cause, but since it was covered I didn't put up a fuss.

[WolfGTI]

You tuned a leased car and the motor failed. I am sorry but you maybe in for a bigger issue - because when you replace the motor with a used replacement, BMW cannot place a warranty on the car to sell it. You may be in for a rough ride.

Originally Posted by pashad13

UPDATE (from dealer):

“ scored cylinders. has to do with too much fuel being pumped into the cylinders and washing out the oil lubrication. That's the dangers of tuning because it manipulates the flow rate of injectors.
Total estimate for engine replacement is $27,236.14+tax”

Sooooo…. There is no fucking chance I am paying nearly $30k for a new motor. It is a lease. I did mod it (stage 2 bootmod3, catless dp, ap intake). Warranty will not cover it.

My options? I have a couple… Rebuild the motor, or buy a wrecked car with a usable B58 in it. Dealer quoted me $7,150 for the swap labor cost if I brought them a used or rebuilt motor. I’d say a 3rd party shop could do that for $3k including the DME coding right?

So I think I can get this done for somewhere in the $7-10k range. Hopefully.

[IndyRed128i]

Originally Posted by WolfGTI

You tuned a leased car and the motor failed. I am sorry but you maybe in for a bigger issue - because when you replace the motor with a used replacement, BMW cannot place a warranty on the car to sell it. You may be in for a rough ride.

^^This. You are going to have major issues when you return the lease.

May have to eventually buy out the lease and call this your track car...

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by raddoc

Have you seen this post?

This guy might be able to provide an opinion on whether or not you could get some $$ support from BMW.

Will Modifications Void Your New Car Warranty?

by: Steve Lehto

http://lehtoslaw.com/will-modificati...-car-warranty/

I liked Lehto's piece on how how Carfax doesn't protect you from buying a used lemon, which starts out with:

"What happens to defective automobiles – 'Lemons' – that get bought back under the lemon law? Most of them get sold right back into the stream of commerce as used vehicles. And often, the full histories of the cars are not disclosed – not even on Carfax."

--------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point, I tried linking to the full blog post that Lehto made in 2014. Unfortunately, that's no longer available. However, having learned that lesson so many years prior to 2014, I copied the post so that I'd always have it, and here it is:

"What happens to defective automobiles – 'Lemons' – that get bought back under the lemon law? Most of them get sold right back into the stream of commerce as used vehicles. And often, the full histories of the cars are not disclosed – not even on Carfax.

I am an attorney in the state of Michigan and have been handling "Lemon Law" claims for 23 years. In a successful case, cars are often bought back by the manufacturer and the consumer gets a refund. People sometimes ask what happens to those defective cars. Are they taken out and crushed? No, the cars are sent to auction and simply put back into circulation as used cars. I have heard all kinds of stories over the years about the extent car companies go in "fixing" cars before they are sold. These policies vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and probably change all the time.

The real question though is: What information is passed along with the car to let future owners know of its history? And, would Carfax pick it up? To learn a bit more about this, I grabbed five VINs at random of cars which had been bought back by Big Three automakers from clients of mine. I then ran the VINs through Carfax. I got 5 reports for $49.99 since I was bulk-purchasing. Here is what I found.

Car One was a Chevrolet Cobalt, and Carfax makes no mention of a lemon law buy back. The report does reveal that it was "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle Sold at auction." Should I worry? The smiling fox says,"Millions of used vehicles are bought and sold at auction every year." The good news in this report is that the mileage shown, according to
Carfax, is "LOW MILEAGE." Carfax does not hint that the reason this car has been driven so little is that it is beset with electrical problems.

Car Two was a Chevrolet Corvette. No mention is made in the Carfax of the buyback but the fox tells me the vehicle was, "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle Sold at auction." Again, "Millions of used vehicles are bought and sold at auction every year." No mention is made of the reason for the car being in the auction and I can tell you that some poor guy a couple states over is wondering why his low mileage, one-owner supercharged Corvette has such severe engine problems.

Car Three was a Chevrolet Volt. I haven't had too many of these in my office and there is no mention of the buyback in the Carfax report. Obviously, this is another GM product. Again, "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle Sold at auction." And, of course, "Millions of used vehicles are bought and sold at auction every year." The smiling fox suggests I should not worry. As we know, animals that smile on the internet are trustworthy.

Car Four was a Dodge Dart. Chrysler actually disclosed, "This vehicle was reacquired [] pursuant to applicable state consumer warranty laws or to promote customer satisfaction." I like the disclosure but can't help notice its squirrely nature. Why was it bought back? They say it was twofold. There was a "squeak from front end over bumps" and "Transmission not shifting." Hmmmm. I wonder which of those upset the original owner more?

Car Five was a Ford Focus. The Carfax report prominently warned that the car had been "listed at auction as a manufacturer buyback vehicle. This information was disclosed by the seller at time of sale." No reason was given for the buyback. I had always heard that Ford was good about the disclosures so this matched up with what I had been told.

A bigger question is whether the auction buyer (most likely a car dealer since most, if not all, of these cars are sold at auctions not open to the public) passed this information to their customer when they resold it? A simple solution is to brand the title - put a warning on the title to indicate the vehicle is a lemon - but only a handful of states require that. Michigan is not one of them.

So, the first lesson here is: Carfax does not find Lemon Law buyback information from all the car companies in Michigan. (It would seem a safe bet that this happens in some other states as well, don't you think?) It seems that information from Chrysler and Ford gets into the system while GM's does not. I know this is based on a limited survey of five buybacks researched at random on Carfax but it does line up with what I have been told over the years.

Also of note is that all five of the Carfax reports I pulled gave "guarantees" regarding the titles to these lemons, promising that they did not have any of the following title problems: "Salvage|Junk|Rebuilt|Fire|Flood|Hail|Lemon." I suspect that many people reading that would feel at ease, knowing the vehicle they were looking at was not a lemon. But – as we know – all five of these examples were repurchased under a state lemon law. To split hairs, Carfax is saying that none of these vehicles' titles has ever been branded with any of those designations.

Carfax does note that these laws vary from state to state - if you hover your cursor over the word lemon and read what pops up. I wonder how many people find that pop-up?

If a vehicle is branded a lemon in one state, it is a simple matter to take the vehicle to a state that does not brand titles and retitle it there. Presumably, Carfax's "lemon" guarantee would apply to such a transaction.

The second lesson is that the Carfax reports give a false sense of security as to repair histories. I know that each of these vehicles had a troubled past. Each one visited service departments repeatedly (except for Car Two which we can discuss in a moment). Many of the visits are reported on the Carfax but in only the most innocuous terms. The reports show many visits to the dealer as "maintenance inspections," without mentioning the complaints the owner had which brought them into the dealer on that visit.

Car Two spent more than 30 days in for repairs in its first year because of catastrophic engine failure. That repair visit is not indicated on the Carfax report. In fact, the report
shows no service visits and instead draws the reader's attention to the fact that the car has "Low mileage!"

I think the fault here - the information not getting through to consumers - is not entirely the fault of Carfax. I do take umbrage with their presentation of some of the histories above but they cannot report what they are not told. Particularly with the titles. That would require all of the manufacturers to pass this information along, an action that would cost them money in the form of lowered resale values. Of course, a Federal statute mandating title branding would be a good step toward solving part of this problem. Or, the rest of the states could follow the lead of the states which already require it.

Until then, if you are car shopping and you find a Carfax in front of you, look for an auction history. Regardless of whether Carfax mentions a lemon law buyback or not, keep in mind that the vehicle might be a recycled lemon if it passed through an auction as a "manufacturer vehicle." Also, understand that Carfax does not report everything and some of what it misses can be quite important."