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      09-15-2021, 11:21 AM   #133
stein_325i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Buddy, I'm fully aware that the M division originated in Motorsports. The reality though is that it is YOU who are oblivious. Let me put it real simple for you to understand - if the BMW M division was 100% faithful to their heritage, there would be no consumer M cars at all. Therefore ANY street, non-motorsport compliant M car is a violation of the original BMW M division intent. THEREFORE, going back to the original argument made, the X1M cannot violate the original heritage, because said heritage was altered the moment the division put out an M street car model. So all these M models you guys wax poetic about are technically an abomination in the eyes of "true" M purists who (if they are upholding then original intent) would advocate that no consumer M cars should ever have been made. Get it now?
I never mentioned the X1M, my original argument was because of this post which is completely wrong:
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
I hate to break it to you, but the intent of the M division was not Motorsports in the first place.
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      09-15-2021, 11:23 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Buddy, I'm fully aware that the M division originated in Motorsports. The reality though is that it is YOU who are oblivious. Let me put it real simple for you to understand - if the BMW M division was 100% faithful to their heritage, there would be no consumer M cars at all. Therefore ANY street, non-motorsport compliant M car is a violation of the original BMW M division intent. THEREFORE, going back to the original argument made, the X1M cannot violate the original heritage, because said heritage was altered the moment the division put out an M street car model. So all these M models you guys wax poetic about are technically an abomination in the eyes of "true" M purists who (if they are upholding then original intent) would advocate that no consumer M cars should ever have been made. Get it now?
I never mentioned the X1M, the original argument was because of this post which is completely wrong:
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
I hate to break it to you, but the intent of the M division was not Motorsports in the first place.
I'll admit I should have been more precise when I said "M division" - I was referring to the M consumer/street car division. Obviously to this day, BMW still has a separate competition M division, but that is irrelevant to this discussion as when the argument is made that the X1M violates the purity of "true" M cars, the reference is made to the M cars made for the street.
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      09-15-2021, 03:26 PM   #135
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Than apparently you can care less whether the M division continues to exist, because newsflash - companies have to be profitable to continue to exist. A lot of you seem to be averse to progress. Who cares if the M division didn't make a FWD car before? You people LITERALLY expect the status quo to be maintained or out come the pitchforks.
I believe that with the way you reason, you would make a perfect BMW board member. It would explain several of the decisions they make these days.
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      09-15-2021, 03:29 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Than apparently you can care less whether the M division continues to exist, because newsflash - companies have to be profitable to continue to exist. A lot of you seem to be averse to progress. Who cares if the M division didn't make a FWD car before? You people LITERALLY expect the status quo to be maintained or out come the pitchforks.
I believe that with the way you reason, you would make a perfect BMW board member. It would explain several of the decisions they make these days.
Try as you can, you can't stop progress. I guarantee you this FWD X1M will outperform almost any RWD vehicle in it's price range from 10 years ago.
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      09-15-2021, 04:00 PM   #137
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Try as you can, you can't stop progress. I guarantee you this FWD X1M will outperform almost any RWD vehicle in it's price range from 10 years ago.
That's perfectly possible! High performance FWD platforms have evolved disruptively.

I believe that the Golf R mark 7 was already faster than the M140i around a track. When I'am not mistaken, even the Leon Cupra mark 3 FWD was faster. And both the Golf as the Leon were more practical also! Call me conservative, but between those three, I'd still go for the BMW.
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      09-16-2021, 04:11 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
And your point? You do realize technology and standards changes over time no? You are referencing an era where consumer electric cars weren't even invented and now we have electric cars that can go 0-60 in under 2 seconds. You people point to heritage as if its something that is defined in one moment of time and then is static. Heritage evolves in the same way technology does.
What a load of non-sequitur nonsense.

BMW could have chosen not to make an M SUV. Instead they did make it and from then on lost any right to the higher ground. The M badge stands for money and marketing. I don't blame them, but they can't have it both ways.
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      09-16-2021, 06:22 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
And your point? You do realize technology and standards changes over time no? You are referencing an era where consumer electric cars weren't even invented and now we have electric cars that can go 0-60 in under 2 seconds. You people point to heritage as if its something that is defined in one moment of time and then is static. Heritage evolves in the same way technology does.
What a load of non-sequitur nonsense.

BMW could have chosen not to make an M SUV. Instead they did make it and from then on lost any right to the higher ground. The M badge stands for money and marketing. I don't blame them, but they can't have it both ways.
You are just confused is all. You said that BMW had said for years that a "real" M car was a manual RWD car and now they have deviated from that to chase profits. While to some degree that's probably true, the point is that things change. The fact is that automatic transmissions now shift faster than a human ever could. The fact is that the technology now (as opposed to years ago) allows for creating high performing AWD SUVs. To my point on heritage and therefore what constitutes a "real" M car - that changes with time. You are stuck in the past buddy it's simple as that. Who cares whether BMW said that a real M car was RWD and manual YEARS ago? Times change. Get with it or get left behind. As I said before, the street consumer M division is not about professional Motorsports racing, so a "real" M can really be whatever the division chooses. Ultimately, a real M is just one that outperforms their relevant competition.
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      09-16-2021, 08:23 AM   #140
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Back on topic. Is this M version part of an LCI refresh for the X1 or is 2022 a new model? I do feel the interior needs to be refreshed as it's still got the last gen BMW interior.
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      09-16-2021, 09:21 AM   #141
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It is a new 2023 model
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      09-16-2021, 11:31 AM   #142
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It is a new 2023 model
So 2022 X1 models are carryover?
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      09-16-2021, 11:44 AM   #143
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Any vehicle that brings enjoyment to the driver is all that matters. Full fledged ///Ms are most enjoyable to me, but some non-Ms are also fun too. I can understand frustration with "badge chasers" that don't share a certain level of passion or enthusiasm for driving dynamics, but these customers keep the ///M division afloat.
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      09-16-2021, 11:45 AM   #144
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It is a new 2023 model
The dealership that I was at yesterday seems to think the M35i version be a 2024 model..
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      09-16-2021, 12:44 PM   #145
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The dealership that I was at yesterday seems to think the M35i version be a 2024 model..
A sales guy at a dealership almost certainly is just making that up
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      09-16-2021, 12:49 PM   #146
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A sales guy at a dealership almost certainly is just making that up
Possibly, he was my sales guy, but didn't care for him. 2024 seems far out..
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      09-16-2021, 04:31 PM   #147
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'M' and 4 cylinder shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
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      09-16-2021, 04:41 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Edwardsc1 View Post
'M' and 4 cylinder shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
They have an M in front of everything now.. should a station wagon be an M.. imo, No. But people want them. They still have your M2, 3, and 4. Should've they stuck with just a 2 door M3 instead of 4.. People were upset with that too.. You won't please everyone.. I think they have way too many Suv/Sav's in their lineup anyways.
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      09-16-2021, 09:49 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Edwardsc1 View Post
'M' and 4 cylinder shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
E30 M3 was 4cylinder car B/T/W so is the M4 currently racing in DTM but that is a race car lol. Just saying...
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      09-16-2021, 09:56 PM   #150
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E30 M3 was 4cylinder car B/T/W so is the M4 currently racing in DTM but that is a race car lol. Just saying...
6 cyl will be rare especially with EV now and may cars being 4cyl turbo already. Nit saying that there's something awesome about a 6 cyl, manufacturers are all about efficiency now..
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      09-16-2021, 10:17 PM   #151
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Good thing BMW decides what deserves the M badge or not...
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      09-16-2021, 10:55 PM   #152
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I don't own BMW shares so I don't care nor am I the target demographic for this car. Call me when they release the M340I ZHP with 6 sp manual.
At least you are not a Jaguar fan.
Jaguar Exec: “We have this new Ingenium inline 6 that can make excess of 500 hp, and fit in all of our cars.”
Jaguar Fan: “An in-line 6 XE with 400 hp, and a lighter Jaguar XE SVR version with 500 hp, please.”
Jaguar Exec: “Due to poor sales of the XE, we’re not going to put the Ingenium Inline 6 in the XE, we’ll be putting it in the new Land Rover and Range Rover models.”
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      09-17-2021, 02:25 AM   #153
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Quote:
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So 2022 X1 models are carryover?
I guess so. The LCI refresh was with the 2020 models. Not much of a refresh tbh, just a slightly different front bumper and grill.
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      09-17-2021, 07:56 AM   #154
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'M' and 4 cylinder shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
Yeah you don't see Mercedes put AMG and 4 cylinder in the same sentence.....D'oh!
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